Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[alwaysintrigued]

And yet there is no definite timeline or location for this drive, as there is e.g. for the Roar photograph?
Shouldn't the coroner have a position on where and when the drive was, at least, if not why?
It's foolish to rely on the FM telling us where and when and why she took the drive. It needs forensic evidence - phone pings etc or at least independent witnesses.

I dare say that the coroner is going to have to decide that for herself, after her hearing all the evidence. That's what they do.

Same as being missing for "5 minutes" when Mr Craddock said " Perhaps it was longer, a matter for the Coroner to determine"

 

[Kurve]

It's a semantic issue. Such phones are perfectly legal in Australia however to use them you need an active SIM. And to get a SIM you need to provide legal ID. So truly anonymous phone use is not legal in Australia. IMO.

The cops found a SIM card that was registered to one of the FFs companies, or one he worked for?

 

[LRitz]

A lot of people have burner phones for varying reasons,......r because they're having an affair.

Kurve ?

 

[31550]

The cops found a SIM card that was registered to one of the FFs companies, or one he worked for?

True but wasn't that the one which had never been used?

 

[alwaysintrigued]

The FF left about 08:55 - 09:00.

Mostly the inquest has just said around 9am

 

[InTheBleachers]

She took the drive before looking for him, and before telling anybody he was missing.

That's not what the police say.


"Police assert that in that frame of mind she placed William in her mother's car and after alerting [a neighbour] to William's disappearance, drove the mother's car down to Batar Creek Road and placed William's body somewhere in undergrowth and then returned [home] to 48 Benaroon Drive and called the police via triple-0."

William Tyrrell inquest resumes with new details of police theory about involvement of former foster mother

Any evidence police have gathered against William Tyrrell's foster mother will finally be presented to a coroner as the inquest into the toddler's disappearance resumes this week.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The FF left about 08:55 - 09:00.

Mostly the inquest has just said around 9am

He was caught on CCTV at 8.40 so had left earlier

 

[31550]

Also, as previously discussed, what was the pressure to ring Spedding first thing on Friday morning. He couldn't get there any quicker without the spare part. And then why omit the phone call from the statement.

I don't have any problem accepting this part of FM testimony. She decided she wanted to do some washing. FGM told her the washing machine was broken so she couldn't and would have to wait for Spedding to fix it in his own time as that was the way they did things. FM being her entitled self thought this was not good enough - I want the machine NOW - Spedding can drop whatever he is doing and come and fix the machine NOW. Lucky for Spedding he missed her call and didn't have to deal with her, except that he got thrown under the bus and his life completely ruined by missing that call!

 

[31550]

That's not what the police say.


"Police assert that in that frame of mind she placed William in her mother's car and after alerting [a neighbour] to William's disappearance, drove the mother's car down to Batar Creek Road and placed William's body somewhere in undergrowth and then returned [home] to 48 Benaroon Drive and called the police via triple-0."

William Tyrrell inquest resumes with new details of police theory about involvement of former foster mother

Any evidence police have gathered against William Tyrrell's foster mother will finally be presented to a coroner as the inquest into the toddler's disappearance resumes this week.

www.abc.net.au

As I said I don't particularly care what the police say. Their theory makes no sense. And if it makes no sense it probably isn't true. If William suffered a true accident there is absolutely no need to cover it up. You ring 000. You ring your husband. You don't try and hide anything.

 

[LRitz]

So you don't know of the FGM was at the inquest or what time the FF left after all these years?

Is it your view that if no one saw anything it didn't happen?

And yes I do believe those thing could have happened in that time frame as all activities were of a short duration IMO

LRitz, re: "...it is possible William was run over by the postie."

From memory, that's the second time you've suggested that. Have you seen that allegation by anybody in the investigation, or what are you referring to?

At the time of the Local Court hearing for Gary Jubelin's charges it was reported that Det Sgt Beacroft had been asked (I don't know when) about Det Sgt Lambert's view about the postie. She was reported to think it "far-fetched", but I've never seen an explanation for what his view actually was.

The "I Catch Killers" book by Jubelin and Box says the postie's early delivery time that day (8:45am) was verified by CCTV cameras around Kendall. If that's correct, I think it's likely the postie can't have run over William, MOO.

Sorry Stormbird, I think the meaning was lost in the chain of posts. I was replying to alwaysintrigued, that if something (anything ) was not seen then it did not happen. I am open to possibilities but don't want to be forced into believing something just because it is repeated over and over, or dismissing another possibility.

The Postie comment was meant in a hyperbole or sarcasm. I understand in print sarcasm does not always go down well and can easily be misinterpreted. So again sorry and try not to confuse in the future. I think it is highly unlikely that the postie or any other car accidentally injured William and then decided to hide the body and not get help.
I think it is possible that the bike ride did not happen. But agree that it is possible it did.
I think the FGM did not have dementia.IMO
I did not read Jubelin's book. Fact, certain.

 

[InTheBleachers]

As I said I don't particularly care what the police say. Their theory makes no sense. And if it makes no sense it probably isn't true. If William suffered a true accident there is absolutely no need to cover it up. You ring 000. You ring your husband. You don't try and hide anything.

You keep saying that the drive was before anyone knew that WT was missing. You don't know that. The police obviously think it was after. They could have a reason for that.

 

[passball]

Did Paul Savage stop in and visit with a lady who was living in a caravan during his walk that day?
If so, was the caravan near the fire trail?

 

[alwaysintrigued]

He was caught on CCTV at 8.40 so had left earlier

Is that the corrected time of the CCTV? I've also seen 08:49 mentioned. I don't believe the CCTV of the time it caught the FF driving past has been said at the inquest.

 

[Underarrest_]

I don't have any problem accepting this part of FM testimony. She decided she wanted to do some washing. FGM told her the washing machine was broken so she couldn't and would have to wait for Spedding to fix it in his own time as that was the way they did things. FM being her entitled self thought this was not good enough - I want the machine NOW - Spedding can drop whatever he is doing and come and fix the machine NOW. Lucky for Spedding he missed her call and didn't have to deal with her, except that he got thrown under the bus and his life completely ruined by missing that call!

Maybe there was another reason.
FF had just arrived. I personally wouldn’t have too much washing the first day of holidays or in three days that I couldn’t take back home with me if I was too slack to hand wash.

 

[31550]

You keep saying that the drive was before anyone knew that WT was missing. You don't know that. The police obviously think it was after. They could have a reason for that.

This is based on analysis of the proven timeline. Overlaid with impartial eyewitness accounts, particularly Anne Maree Sharpley. Concentrating on the events between 10.35 when the FF returned home and 10:57 when the 000 call was made it is IMO physically impossible to make that drive as described AND be where Anne Maree says FM was.

I am not privy to phone data or geolocation data which the police may or may not have. They may have forensic data which supports their theory and proves me wrong.

But so far they have not presented it.

Nor has the coroner asked for it.

Which is surprising and disappointing.

 

[LRitz]

The FF left about 08:55 - 09:00.

Mostly the inquest has just said around 9am

But after all these years how does that fit with the tennis club CCTV. He did not leave at 9:00. He must have left at around 8:40 to be at the tennis club (even with the variation of times of the CCTV recording at the club). If he left at 9:00 the CCTV would have shown him there at ~ around 9:05.

Unless he past the tennis club and doubled back by a different route and left again after the FM made the phone call to Spedding.
Don't they think this is important?
Why did FM give false evidence? (Don't say the dementia that runs in the family).
Was he running late? I recall the call was booked for 9:30 so he was not running late and the call started early.
FF walkthrough (as I recall) says he left 9 ish. He is asked did he stop on the way. FF replies: no. So why did it take him 25 to 30 minutes to do a 10 minute trip.

 

[jason_recliner]

But after all these years how does that fit with the tennis club CCTV. He did not leave at 9:00. He must have left at around 8:40 to be at the tennis club (even with the variation of times of the CCTV recording at the club). If he left at 9:00 the CCTV would have shown him there at ~ around 9:05.

Unless he past the tennis club and doubled back by a different route and left again after the FM made the phone call to Spedding.
Don't they think this is important?
Why did FM give false evidence? (Don't say the dementia that runs in the family).
Was he running late? I recall the call was booked for 9:30 so he was not running late and the call started early.
FF walkthrough (as I recall) says he left 9 ish. He is asked did he stop on the way. FF replies: no. So why did it take him 25 to 30 minutes to do a 10 minute trip.

How do you know it took him 25-30 minutes, after leaving "around 9", to do a 10 minute trip? How do you know he was driving the whole time?

 

[LRitz]

The FF left about 08:55 - 09:00.

Mostly the inquest has just said around 9am

Was that a reply to my question about what time you thought he left? You did not link it so I am not sure.

The FF left about 08:55 - 09:00. Is this a fact or certain or just your opinion?
So the inquest says he left at around 9:00.
What time do you think he left?
What evidence do you have for the departure at 9:00.

 

[BFew]

BFew, why is it that you have chosen not to to relay any of the information to your fellow long term posters

Fine
I’ll go and delete all the information I’ve posted about what I heard at the inquest last week.

 

[InTheBleachers]

This is based on analysis of the proven timeline. Overlaid with impartial eyewitness accounts, particularly Anne Maree Sharpley. Concentrating on the events between 10.35 when the FF returned home and 10:57 when the 000 call was made it is IMO physically impossible to make that drive as described AND be where Anne Maree says FM was.

I am not privy to phone data or geolocation data which the police may or may not have. They may have forensic data which supports their theory and proves me wrong.

But so far they have not presented it.

Nor has the coroner asked for it.

Which is surprising and disappointing.

The Coroner may not have to ask for it. There may be a statement from someone who saw her driving. Maybe the man on the lawnmower, maybe the right truck driver, maybe somebody else that we haven't heard about.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

This is based on analysis of the proven timeline. Overlaid with impartial eyewitness accounts, particularly Anne Maree Sharpley. Concentrating on the events between 10.35 when the FF returned home and 10:57 when the 000 call was made it is IMO physically impossible to make that drive as described AND be where Anne Maree says FM was.

I am not privy to phone data or geolocation data which the police may or may not have. They may have forensic data which supports their theory and proves me wrong.

But so far they have not presented it.

Nor has the coroner asked for it.

Which is surprising and disappointing.

How do you know the Corner hasn't asked for it or it hasn't been presented to her?

A lot about the drive / timeline was discussed in the 4 hour NSW CC video we watched on Thursday last week at the inquest.

The Coroner has a whole brief & not everything ( I'd say most ) has not been released publicly or at the inquest.

The police & the Coroner do not have to prove the public every detail.

That's what the findings are for.

 

[LRitz]

Maybe there was another reason.
FF had just arrived. I personally wouldn’t have too much washing the first day of holidays or in three days that I couldn’t take back home with me if I was too slack to hand wash.

Agree.
Why ring Spedding at 9:03. FM just arrived and lots to catch up with FGM, busy finishing breakfast, FF is allegedly still there running late. But FM does not believe that Spedding told FGM the truth and is waiting for a part so has to ring him.

And they must have packed enough clothes for the weekend. They had a big car with room for luggage. They couldn't have had much washing yet, they had only been there overnight.

 

[jason_recliner]

Agree.
Why ring Spedding at 9:03. FM just arrived and lots to catch up with FGM, busy finishing breakfast, FF is allegedly still there running late. But FM does not believe that Spedding told FGM the truth and is waiting for a part so has to ring him.

And they must have packed enough clothes for the weekend. They had a big car with room for luggage. They couldn't have had much washing yet, they had only been there overnight.

She might have called Spedding because she'd taken her two young children on a long drive, they had slept in other clothes, and she anticipated them dirtying more clothes (and maybe bed linen) while away, so she wanted the washing machine fixed while she was there. That doesn't sound impossible or unreasonable.

My understanding is that the FF must have left before then BTW, to be filmed at the tennis club (not that it's relevant; you mentioned he was there).

 

[InTheBleachers]

She might have called Spedding because she'd taken her two young children on a long drive, they had slept in other clothes, and she anticipated them dirtying more clothes (and maybe bed linen) while away, so she wanted the washing machine fixed while she was there. That doesn't sound impossible or unreasonable.

My understanding is that the FF must have left before then BTW, to be filmed at the tennis club (not that it's relevant; you mentioned he was there).

She called Bill Spedding because FGM had a lot of washing that needed to be done. It had been piling up.

 

[jason_recliner]

She called Bill Spedding because FGM had a lot of washing that needed to be done. It had been piling up.

OK, thanks. Also doesn't sound impossible or unreasonable.