Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Angry Red Bull]

She might have called Spedding because she'd taken her two young children on a long drive, they had slept in other clothes, and she anticipated them dirtying more clothes (and maybe bed linen) while away, so she wanted the washing machine fixed while she was there. That doesn't sound impossible or unreasonable.

My understanding is that the FF must have left before then BTW, to be filmed at the tennis club (not that it's relevant; you mentioned he was there).

Upon turning up and seeing washing machine in pieces.....

FM "When is the repair guy coming?"
FGM " He'll come when he has the part..that's the way we do it here. They just come when they can do it..They won't make a time"

She rings in morning at 9.05 because she wanted to know when it would be fixed so left a message with Spedding asking to call and advise.

Paraphrased from memory

 

[alwaysintrigued]

But after all these years how does that fit with the tennis club CCTV. He did not leave at 9:00. He must have left at around 8:40 to be at the tennis club (even with the variation of times of the CCTV recording at the club). If he left at 9:00 the CCTV would have shown him there at ~ around 9:05.

Unless he past the tennis club and doubled back by a different route and left again after the FM made the phone call to Spedding.
Don't they think this is important?
Why did FM give false evidence? (Don't say the dementia that runs in the family).
Was he running late? I recall the call was booked for 9:30 so he was not running late and the call started early.
FF walkthrough (as I recall) says he left 9 ish. He is asked did he stop on the way. FF replies: no. So why did it take him 25 to 30 minutes to do a 10 minute trip.

I'm not going to argue with you, it has been said heaps of times at the inquest that he left around 9am. It's about 4mins to the Tennis club from 48 Benaroon Drive

Believe what you want. I give you the answers & because they don't suit you is not my problem.

Ok ,where do you get your 25 - 30mins from . Is that a fact.

It's about 10 mins to Lakewood with a good run. Maybe 5 mins stopped at the railway works adds another 5. He said he got there @ 09:15, all adds up

How do you know it took him 25-30 minutes, after leaving "around 9", to do a 10 minute trip? How do you know he was driving the whole time?

Well Peter the truck driver got stuck at road works at the railway crossing, so I guess the FF could have too. He arrived in Lakewood @ 09:15

Was that a reply to my question about what time you thought he left? You did not link it so I am not sure.

The FF left about 08:55 - 09:00. Is this a fact or certain or just your opinion?
So the inquest says he left at around 9:00.
What time do you think he left?
What evidence do you have for the departure at 9:00.

I consider it a fact, it was repeated over & over at the inquest by Mr Craddock

 

[LRitz]

How do you know it took him 25-30 minutes, after leaving "around 9", to do a 10 minute trip? How do you know he was driving the whole time?

He could not have left at 9:00 or later, as alleged by FM.
CCTV shows him at the tennis club at around 8:50. If he leaves the house at 8:47 he is at the CCTV at 8:50. he should reach Lakewood by 9:00 or around this time. But he does not start his calls until closer to 9:15. This gives a missing 15 minutes.
FF himself states he did not stop.
He could have sat in the car for 15 minutes after he arrived but he did not say that. He had time to go to the chemist for his medication and still start the work call at 9:30.
His return trip from leaving the chemist, including stop to buy the paper , was around 10 minutes.
Possible he made a stop and was not driving the whole time. But why did he make a stop that he did not tell the police. Again this is all before the 9:30 photo, so should be straight forward. Why does anything suspicious happen before 9:30. My guess is he did not anticipate there was CCTV at the tennis club, again only IMO.

 

[31550]

How do you know the Corner hasn't asked for it or it hasn't been presented to her?

A lot about the drive / timeline was discussed in the 4 hour NSW CC video we watched on Thursday last week at the inquest.

The Coroner has a whole brief & not everything ( I'd say most ) has not been released publicly or at the inquest.

The police & the Coroner do not have to prove the public every detail.

That's what the findings are for.

Do you have any evidence that the coroner has asked for it or that it has been presented?
I am not asking for proof of every detail.
I am merely asking for the coroner to decide three things:
1. When precisely did the drive start and end?
2. Where precisely did the drive go?
3. Why? Why then, why there? For what purpose?
None of these details are of a personal or confidential nature so there is no reason to ask them in secret.
Without answers to these details how can the coroner make any further determinations?
They are just basic.
We have seen a week of seemingly irrelevant evidence considered and discussed publicly, e.g a truck driver's recollections which have no established connection whatsoever to William's death.
These things I am asking about are quite pivotal in the evaluation of any theory, including the police theory currently in favour.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Do you have any evidence that the coroner has asked for it or that it has been presented?
I am not asking for proof of every detail.
I am merely asking for the coroner to decide three things:
1. When precisely did the drive start and end?
2. Where precisely did the drive go?
3. Why? Why then, why there? For what purpose?
None of these details are of a personal or confidential nature so there is no reason to ask them in secret.
Without answers to these details how can the coroner make any further determinations?
They are just basic.
We have seen a week of seemingly irrelevant evidence considered and discussed publicly, e.g a truck driver's recollections which have no established connection whatsoever to William's death.
These things I am asking about are quite pivotal in the evaluation of any theory, including the police theory currently in favour.

I give up, you obviously have no idea how coronial inquest are conducted if you think that the Coroner isn't trying to find these things out.

All these questions & many more were played to the Coroner from the NSW CC video that was 4 hours in length.

 

[jason_recliner]

He could not have left at 9:00 or later, as alleged by FM.
CCTV shows him at the tennis club at around 8:50. If he leaves the house at 8:47 he is at the CCTV at 8:50. he should reach Lakewood by 9:00 or around this time. But he does not start his calls until closer to 9:15. This gives a missing 15 minutes.
FF himself states he did not stop.
He could have sat in the car for 15 minutes after he arrived but he did not say that. He had time to go to the chemist for his medication and still start the work call at 9:30.
His return trip from leaving the chemist, including stop to buy the paper , was around 10 minutes.
Possible he made a stop and was not driving the whole time. But why did he make a stop that he did not tell the police. Again this is all before the 9:30 photo, so should be straight forward. Why does anything suspicious happen before 9:30. My guess is he did not anticipate there was CCTV at the tennis club, again only IMO.

Yes, he probably left at 0850 or 0855 or so. A lot of people would consider that 'around 9'. Not sure of the relevance of the FM saying FF was there when she called, as he clearly wasn't - I could definitely forget such an inconsequential detail.

Typically before a meeting I prepare for the meeting, especially if I am presenting anything. Prep could take 15 minutes or 15 days, depending on the meeting. I certainly wouldn't plan on driving to arrive at the same time a meeting starts. Maybe he parked, collected his thoughts, ran over the agenda and what he intended to cover, then logged on.

 

[31550]

He could not have left at 9:00 or later, as alleged by FM.
CCTV shows him at the tennis club at around 8:50. If he leaves the house at 8:47 he is at the CCTV at 8:50. he should reach Lakewood by 9:00 or around this time. But he does not start his calls until closer to 9:15. This gives a missing 15 minutes.
FF himself states he did not stop.
He could have sat in the car for 15 minutes after he arrived but he did not say that. He had time to go to the chemist for his medication and still start the work call at 9:30.
His return trip from leaving the chemist, including stop to buy the paper , was around 10 minutes.
Possible he made a stop and was not driving the whole time. But why did he make a stop that he did not tell the police. Again this is all before the 9:30 photo, so should be straight forward. Why does anything suspicious happen before 9:30. My guess is he did not anticipate there was CCTV at the tennis club, again only IMO.

Simplest explanation is that he actually left well before 9am, and the FM falsely stated he was there when she rang Spedding. He wasn't there, couldn't have been.

 

[31550]

I give up, you obviously have no idea how coronial inquest are conducted if you think that the Coroner isn't trying to find these things out.

All these questions & many more were played to the Coroner from the NSW CC video that was 4 hours in length.

Sorry for my ignorance. What were the answers then? I wasn't there.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Sorry for my ignorance. What were the answers then? I wasn't there.

The answer is that the FM does not know the exact time she took the drive!

Bfew can fill you in or you could maybe ask them?

 

[Gunner886]

USER:kirbonavich stole from me is this the right thread to post?

ran illegal competitions where he stole all the entree fees and prize money from our community.

 

[31550]

The answer is that the FM does not know the exact time she took the drive!

Bfew can fill you in or you could maybe ask them?

What do police allege is the time then ? And how did they arrive at this? Bearing in mind the police also have Anne Maree's testimony? And possibly phone data.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

What do police allege is the time then ? And how did they arrive at this? Bearing in mind the police also have Anne Maree's testimony? And possibly phone data.

I don't know. I don't know that they even know.

 

[31550]

I don't know. I don't know that they even know.

Fair enough. I guess I got excited when you said they went over all this at the Inquest. Clearly they have not gone all over this. They have not gone anywhere near it. So I'm back to my starting point. Why aren't they?

 

[31550]

Simplest explanation is that he actually left well before 9am, and the FM falsely stated he was there when she rang Spedding. He wasn't there, couldn't have been.

And the reason I point this out is that it demonstrates how totally unreliable eyewitness testimony can be. The FM states FF was present in the house during an event when clearly it is impossible for him to have been there.

And therefore, anything else in any of her statements may also be a false recollection unless there is some corroboration.

The coroner must build a timeline based primarily on direct evidence such as phone pings. Independent, corroborated eyewitness evidence should be secondary. Uncorroborated eyewitness evidence, and uncorroborated testimony of POIs should be a last resort.

 

[Earls Smother]

And the reason I point this out is that it demonstrates how totally unreliable eyewitness testimony can be. The FM states FF was present in the house during an event when clearly it is impossible for him to have been there.

And therefore, anything else in any of her statements may also be a false recollection unless there is some corroboration.

The coroner must build a timeline based primarily on direct evidence such as phone pings. Independent, corroborated eyewitness evidence should be secondary. Uncorroborated eyewitness evidence, and uncorroborated testimony of POIs should be a last resort.

She also doesn't remember knocking on number 35's door despite being witnessed doing it. I agree with your second paragraph. I surmise it is due to her memory being affected by the trauma. I know 9:03 is prior to the trauma beginning, but the brain doesn't have a stop watch for these things.

I totally agree that anything she says needs to be verified by any means possible. The police think she has committed serious offences and will have gone to great lengths to ascertain the timeline, to support their theory.

Wouldn't we have at least a hint of verified "lies", in order for them be considering the perverting the course of justice charge?

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Fair enough. I guess I got excited when you said they went over all this at the Inquest. Clearly they have not gone all over this. They have not gone anywhere near it. So I'm back to my starting point. Why aren't they?

They DID go over it, they just didn't get any answers. IMO

 

[31550]

She also doesn't remember knocking on number 35's door despite being witnessed doing it. I agree with your second paragraph. I surmise it is due to her memory being affected by the trauma. I know 9:03 is prior to the trauma beginning, but the brain doesn't have a stop watch for these things.

I totally agree that anything she says needs to be verified by any means possible. The police think she has committed serious offences and will have gone to great lengths to ascertain the timeline, to support their theory.

Wouldn't we have at least a hint of verified "lies", in order for them be considering the perverting the course of justice charge?

She hasn't been charged with that.

 

[Earls Smother]

She hasn't been charged with that.

That's why I said considering.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't have any problem accepting this part of FM testimony. She decided she wanted to do some washing. FGM told her the washing machine was broken so she couldn't and would have to wait for Spedding to fix it in his own time as that was the way they did things. FM being her entitled self thought this was not good enough - I want the machine NOW - Spedding can drop whatever he is doing and come and fix the machine NOW. Lucky for Spedding he missed her call and didn't have to deal with her, except that he got thrown under the bus and his life completely ruined by missing that call!

Yes pretty much.

 

[31550]

They DID go over it, they just didn't get any answers. IMO

And the coroner declined to call Lonergan even though NSWPOL wanted to put him up. Wouldn't Lonergan be the best person to answer what the police believe is the timeline and why?
Can't you see why I would think the coroner is perhaps not trying hard enough to get this answered?

 

[31550]

Because there is another week of the inquest and then the findings will be published in 2025.

Maybe if the FM takes the stand at the upcoming tranche, as the policy lawyers have requested; the Coroner may have a more comprehensive understanding about the questions you’ve outlined.

No point asking her. She doesn't remember.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Agree.
Why ring Spedding at 9:03. FM just arrived and lots to catch up with FGM, busy finishing breakfast, FF is allegedly still there running late. But FM does not believe that Spedding told FGM the truth and is waiting for a part so has to ring him.

And they must have packed enough clothes for the weekend. They had a big car with room for luggage. They couldn't have had much washing yet, they had only been there overnight.

Pretty clear to me ......attitude. She wanted to show that we don't do that on the north shore. We expect and demand service. So I'm going to interfere here and show what you should do mum.

That I think was the thought process. Consistent

Example is attitude to police the whole time EXCEPT when she had GJ in her pocket

 

[Angry Red Bull]

How could William hit his head and it affect his hearing?

What about a full blooded clout over the ear perforating his ear drum? That would do the trick. He takes off to get away and is chased. She must know that sort of attack would produce that sort of damage. Wonder how she would know?

Of course that is nothing like what's been proposed as the theory.. Whats that statistic attached to the Cinderella effect? Oh that's right 500% more likely for a child to die in care of non biological parent. Mmmmmmmm

But that would only apply surely to someone who is known to be abusive .....

 

[Wallace52]

Pretty clear to me ......attitude. She wanted to show that we don't do that on the north shore. We expect and demand service. So I'm going to interfere here and show what you should do mum.

That I think was the thought process. Consistent

Example is attitude to police the whole time EXCEPT when she had GJ in her pocket

Yep, she totally flipped. The cops went from being the good guys to the bad guys as soon as Gary was taken off the case.

Talk about one extreme to another: And it’s because they didn’t serve her needs or her purpose anymore, so “bad.”

 

[Wallace52]

How could William hit his head and it affect his hearing?

What about a full blooded clout over the ear perforating his ear drum? That would do the trick. He takes off to get away and is chased. She must know that sort of attack would produce that sort of damage. Wonder how she would know?

Of course that is nothing like what's been proposed as the theory.. Whats that statistic attached to the Cinderella effect? Oh that's right 500% more likely for a child to die in care of non biological parent. Mmmmmmmm

But that would only apply surely to someone who is known to be abusive .....

Oh, 100 percent she would never assault a child. Oh hang on….