Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[stormbird]

In photos the FGM’s car home appears to be the carport.

If the FGM’s car was parked in the carport and the FGM and FD were on the patio she and the FD MUST have heard the FM take the car.

IF they did not hear it go where were they?

They would have heard it come back also.

Wouldn’t the FD ask where her FM was going?

Odd?

Definitely odd if they didn't know anything about it, IMO. It's not just the sound of the car engine they should have heard. If FM left via the door to the carport there was a screen door to open and close (and they're often a bit screechy). Then she would have needed to open and close at least one door of the car and maybe the boot. Drive away, come back, repeat the car door(s), repeat the screen door, re-enter the house.

If FGM and William's sister were on the patio they would have been about ten metres from the car, IMO, and definitely should have heard everything.

But has anyone said whether they did or didn't hear/see/know about FM's drive? I haven't seen any reports about that. I think if neither of them had corroborated FM's account, it's likely she would have been a person of interest all along, MOO.

 

[js47]

FGM was a person who lived on her own any little noise would wake her.

She would have woken with Wm. And FF talking.

She would have heard Wm. Cleaning himself of pull ups. Wm. Listening to stories on iPad or whatever device.

She would have heard FF showering.
FM showering kids herself etc.

She would have heard FF making coffee etc.

She would have heard kids begging for food.

She would have heard the kids fight.

She gave up and got up to make breakfast and face the day.

She got up to face the fact she would have to fit in with the life of a daughter and son in law who would bring utter chaos to her for the rest of her life. To become a person of interest for the rest of her life.

It is time for the FM and FF to ‘REMEMBER’ details that could close the mystery of so many discrepancies in their narratives and stop the hurt and bring peace to so many people and themselves.

It would be wonderfull if next Happy New Year Kurve could say ‘Case solved’.

 

[31550]

If FGM and William's sister were on the patio they would have been about ten metres from the car, IMO, and definitely should have heard everything.

But has anyone said whether they did or didn't hear/see/know about FM's drive?

AFAIK there is no public record of these questions ever being asked.
Yet SFR has been around for 10 years and three lead detectives.
And the coroner is not interested in asking any more questions of anyone.

 

[Lady O]

FGM was a person who lived on her own any little noise would wake her.

She would have woken with Wm. And FF talking.

She would have heard Wm. Cleaning himself of pull ups. Wm. Listening to stories on iPad or whatever device.

She would have heard FF showering.
FM showering kids herself etc.

She would have heard FF making coffee etc.

She would have heard kids begging for food.

She would have heard the kids fight.

She gave up and got up to make breakfast and face the day.

She got up to face the fact she would have to fit in with the life of a daughter and son in law who would bring utter chaos to her for the rest of her life. To become a person of interest for the rest of her life.

It is time for the FM and FF to ‘REMEMBER’ details that could close the mystery of so many discrepancies in their narratives and stop the hurt and bring peace to so many people and themselves.

It would be wonderfull if next Happy New Year Kurve could say ‘Case solved’.

She would have woken with Wm. And FF talking.
She would have heard Wm. Cleaning himself of pull ups. Wm. Listening to stories on iPad or whatever device.
She would have heard FF showering.
FM showering kids herself etc.
Not really, FGM's bedroom was at the other end of the house.

She would have heard FF making coffee etc.
She would have heard kids begging for food.
She would have heard the kids fight.
She gave up and got up to make breakfast and face the day.
Yes, I think she would have heard them making breakfast because her bedroom was next to the kitchen.

She got up to face the fact she would have to fit in with the life of a daughter and son in law who would bring utter chaos to her for the rest of her life. To become a person of interest for the rest of her life.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? She was moving into another smaller property in Kendall, not going to live with the daughter & son in law.

I don't think she was (during her lifetime) ever implicated nor was her daughter. The search in late 2021 was 6 months after her death.

 

[stormbird]

AFAIK there is no public record of these questions ever being asked.
Yet SFR has been around for 10 years and three lead detectives.
And the coroner is not interested in asking any more questions of anyone.

Just re the coroner vacating the final week of the inquest: I wish someone would try explaining this to the public, because it makes no sense! Why not use a whole week of potential questions and answers if it was already booked in and ready to go? Presumably (I'm guessing), the coroner could have called up any witness she'd wanted to examine, about anything, whether it was related to the police line of inquiry or something else. Has she really examined the case so completely that she has nothing left to ask? If so, well, great, bring on the findings! But if there are still unanswered questions, it seems terrible to have not used the final week of hearings, IMO.

And re the evidence from FGM and William's sister: I wish someone would explain this too! Why wasn't their testimony aired publicly at the inquest (under some non-publication instructions about William's sister if necessary)? If there's a reason FGM couldn't front up in person, why didn't the coroner examine the officers or detectives who had interviewed her? Or if FGM was there in person but in closed court - well, why?

 

[js47]

She would have woken with Wm. And FF talking.
She would have heard Wm. Cleaning himself of pull ups. Wm. Listening to stories on iPad or whatever device.
She would have heard FF showering.
FM showering kids herself etc.
Not really, FGM's bedroom was at the other end of the house.

She would have heard FF making coffee etc.
She would have heard kids begging for food.
She would have heard the kids fight.
She gave up and got up to make breakfast and face the day.
Yes, I think she would have heard them making breakfast because her bedroom was next to the kitchen.

She got up to face the fact she would have to fit in with the life of a daughter and son in law who would bring utter chaos to her for the rest of her life. To become a person of interest for the rest of her life.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? She was moving into another smaller property in Kendall, not going to live with the daughter & son in law.

I don't think she was (during her lifetime) ever implicated nor was her daughter. The search in late 2021 was 6 months after her death.

Lady O what I was implying as a senior lady she was entitled to a quiet life.
They arrived early.
And from the moment they arrived there was chaos.
From the moment Wm. disappeared her life became police and public property.
I did not mean she went to live with them but in a small town she had no where to be anonymous.

 

[Lebbo73]

Witness: William Tyrell was an excellent podcast. IMO, there’s next to no chance that FM had anything to do with his death and/or the disposal of his body.

 

[Kurve]

Witness: William Tyrell was an excellent podcast. IMO, there’s next to no chance that FM had anything to do with his death and/or the disposal of his body.

The podcast did a good job then

 

[Lebbo73]

The podcast did a good job then

They did. Showed that the police:investigators had no shrewd of evidence to suggest that the FM was involved. The lead detective comes out and says that we know what happened, we know who did it/covered up the death by hiding the body. They then proceed to turn the surrounding area into something that resembles the surface of the moon all because someone said that the FM acted the same way in the original phone call to 000 as what happened in her sister’s death I think.
They didn’t find any evidence whatsoever. Reminded me of school with the principal saying that you might as well dob yourselves in as we know who did it.
Let’s not forget that they were listening to everything she said or did and nothing.

 

[Lady O]

They did. Showed that the police:investigators had no shrewd of evidence to suggest that the FM was involved. The lead detective comes out and says that we know what happened, we know who did it/covered up the death by hiding the body. They then proceed to turn the surrounding area into something that resembles the surface of the moon all because someone said that the FM acted the same way in the original phone call to 000 as what happened in her sister’s death I think.
They didn’t find any evidence whatsoever. Reminded me of school with the principal saying that you might as well dob yourselves in as we know who did it.
Let’s not forget that they were listening to everything she said or did and nothing.

Sister's death??

 

[Kurve]

They did. Showed that the police:investigators had no shrewd of evidence to suggest that the FM was involved. The lead detective comes out and says that we know what happened, we know who did it/covered up the death by hiding the body. They then proceed to turn the surrounding area into something that resembles the surface of the moon all because someone said that the FM acted the same way in the original phone call to 000 as what happened in her sister’s death I think.
They didn’t find any evidence whatsoever. Reminded me of school with the principal saying that you might as well dob yourselves in as we know who did it.
Let’s not forget that they were listening to everything she said or did and nothing.

Well, as it usually goes I don't assume that I, or anybody else outside of the current crop of investigators and the ODPP have access to all the evidence that's contained in the brief.

Since the cops recommended the FM for charges, which may or may not proceed, this seems a wise position to take.

Jubelin is on the record many times, saying he doesn't even know what the evidence is that they have against the FM. Dan Box, contrary to the promotional spiel of his podcast suggesting he had information none of us were aware of, told us nothing new.

 

[Lebbo73]

Sister's death??

The FM phone call to report WT missing was apparently similar to some unrelated lady’s daughter sorry. This woman reported that her daughter fell through a screen window out of a house. She was hysterical when she rang 000. Because FM wasn’t hysterical when she rang the police, apparently this meant that the FM was guilty according to this woman.

 

[Kurve]

The FM phone call to report WT missing was apparently similar to some unrelated lady’s daughter sorry. This woman reported that her daughter fell through a screen window out of a house. She was hysterical when she rang 000. Because FM wasn’t hysterical when she rang the police, apparently this meant that the FM was guilty according to this woman.

That was a silly comment and one that nobody really needed to know about. There are people, for whatever reason, making unwise or silly comments all over social media.

All it means, is that she hasn't realised yet that not everybody reacts in the same way.

 

[Lady O]

The FM phone call to report WT missing was apparently similar to some unrelated lady’s daughter sorry. This woman reported that her daughter fell through a screen window out of a house. She was hysterical when she rang 000. Because FM wasn’t hysterical when she rang the police, apparently this meant that the FM was guilty according to this woman.

What you wrote was: "They then proceed to turn the surrounding area into something that resembles the surface of the moon all because someone said that the FM acted the same way in the original phone call to 000 as what happened in her sister’s death I think". Now you are saying she acted in a completely different way. I just don't see how this is relevant to the conversation, maybe I'm missing something?

 

[js47]

It is strange that someone has left cleaning products at the height accessible to children in the bottom garage. William was missing but FD was still at number 48.
The children’s bikes are there with something thrown over them.
The garage door is open why would you use cleaning products there?
Would this validate FF had cleaned a car?
There is also steps into the house that would be private?
It is odd that FM suggested Wm. Look for FF to see if he was coming home.
Cleaning materials.
Piles of garden refuse.
A road
Possibility of snakes
Possibility of him wandering off
Possibility of an abduction
If the children were playing hide and seek where were they hiding?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The FM and FF were in sinc in support. I think the initial damage was done both as witness prior him leaving for work. The FGM was witness too but excluded by lying she wasn’t even up…. And FF not there either to stop them being accomplices. I don’t believe there was an accidental fall. That binds them to hide a body because there was a crime. It was FM who did the hiding some time around 9.50 after he had been placed on bed to recover but didn’t but was 12 min drive away not 3 min. No cadaver scent in car nor at house meaning the car was used once only shortly after death. No time to bury. There was no grave. There will continue to be cadaver scent from remnants and where body was placed and would likely be within 10 metres of road. That now seems to be the only way this progresses by finding a body. That and restoring FD memories as possible about incident and timing…..when he went in search of FF. She has been brainwashed by them imo.

 

[Lady O]

The FM and FF were in sinc in support. I think the initial damage was done both as witness prior him leaving for work. The FGM was witness too but excluded by lying she wasn’t even up…. And FF not there either to stop them being accomplices. I don’t believe there was an accidental fall. That binds them to hide a body because there was a crime. It was FM who did the hiding some time around 9.50 after he had been placed on bed to recover but didn’t but was 12 min drive away not 3 min. No cadaver scent in car nor at house meaning the car was used once only shortly after death. No time to bury. There was no grave. There will continue to be cadaver scent from remnants and where body was placed and would likely be within 10 metres of road. That now seems to be the only way this progresses by finding a body. That and restoring FD memories as possible about incident and timing…..when he went in search of FF. She has been brainwashed by them imo.

I wish I could find the actual words that Wendy Hudson was told by LT when she was asked what happened to WT. It was something like, he was on the verandah waiting for FF.

 

[Kurve]

I wish I could find the actual words that Wendy Hudson was told by LT when she was asked what happened to WT. It was something like, he was on the verandah waiting for FF.

IIRC she said the last time she saw William he was on the balcony, she was then asked to point to the balcony and she pointed to the back verandah. There might be something in this statement that may have triggered the new team of investigators.

She also said he went to look for Daddy.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I wish I could find the actual words that Wendy Hudson was told by LT when she was asked what happened to WT. It was something like, he was on the verandah waiting for FF.

Wasn’t it something like……’went off the balcony looking for FF’

I suspect the phrase was an explanation given to FD by FM to explain his absence. She had to say something so she contrived he went off searching for FF. Just a suggestion mind you

 

[31550]

I wish I could find the actual words that Wendy Hudson was told by LT when she was asked what happened to WT. It was something like, he was on the verandah waiting for FF.

 

[Kurve]

View attachment 2195792

Do you have the rest of it? It will spare me searching for the 'balcony' comment.

Also, "words to the affect" isn't what I'd call a statement. It's recall.

The FD statement should have been video recorded.

 

[31550]

Do you have the rest of it? It will spare me searching for the 'balcony' comment.

Also, "words to the affect" isn't what I'd call a statement. It's recall.

The FD statement should have been video recorded.

Wendy's statement is all 'recall'. There are her handwritten notes, which were presumably done each evening or on the fly. But the statement was not (started being) typed up until 18 September and not completed (sworn) until 2nd October.
Happy to DM you the entire statement -don't think I can post it here because I don't think it has been formally / legally released.

FD statement never released AFAIK.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

---

A similar aged sibling would miss their brother rather quickly when absent from play. FM would have to have said something. It’s nonsensical that WT could have gone off in search of FF or even tried because he wasn’t there. But what else could FM say? He’s dead? He’s hiding? No……he’s gone off to search for FF which in a way suggests the FM had to contrive something more permanent in perception by FD to accept. Once again my take on it. Once again indication of incriminating behaviour by FM that she told her that to pacify her when was a total lie without a comeback.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

---

A similar aged sibling would miss their brother rather quickly when absent from play. FM would have to have said something. It’s nonsensical that WT could have gone off in search of FF or even tried because he wasn’t there. But what else could FM say? He’s dead? He’s hiding? No……he’s gone off to search for FF which in a way suggests the FM had to contrive something more permanent in perception by FD to accept. Once again my take on it. Once again indication of incriminating behaviour by FM that she told her that to pacify her when was a total lie without a comeback.

Thing is IF it happened as narrative has been put he went around corner to roar. There wasn’t any going looking for anyone let alone FF. Maybe she has embellished that he was ‘playing’ daddy tiger with an imaginary FF. Possible. But there was no real FF there so would she answer that way? Personally I don’t think so but we’ll never know

 

[stormbird]

IIRC she said the last time she saw William he was on the balcony, she was then asked to point to the balcony and she pointed to the back verandah. There might be something in this statement that may have triggered the new team of investigators.

She also said he went to look for Daddy.

Kurve, you might be thinking of the Overington book? It paraphrases an interview by Det Snr Cst Debra Nelson with William's sister on Monday 15 Sep 2014 - William's sister says "balcony" when referring to the patio / verandah / deck where they'd been sitting when William went missing.

pages 81 to 84, "Missing William Tyrrell", rev. ed. 2021