Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[stormbird]

Spontaneous asthma attacks are very rare. Something usually needs to trigger an asthma attack - stress, sudden environment change, air pollution, chemicals, allergic reaction, or missing medication.
If we are looking for an 'accident' then the asthma attack itself is not the accident. It's the thing which caused it.

Some quotes about William's asthma are in post 1,330 in part 2.

In particular:

• he would get wheezy under walking stress or a lot of activity
• FF thought it possible he might do an uncontrolled gravity run down a slope, but that would start him coughing
• if his asthma became distressing he would need RediPred to assist breathing

Something that reportedly did happen: a suggestion was made to William - "Why don't you see if Daddy's home yet?"
or
"Why don't we [William, his sister, and FM] go down and see if Daddy's car is here yet". (post 65)

Statements by the fosters say that William went around the corner, out of sight.

Hypothetically, I'm just speculating: maybe William ran flat out down a steep slope, tripped forward, hit the ground full force on his chest, all the air was knocked out of his lungs, for a minute he couldn't breathe - neither in nor out - and his head was downhill.

This happened to me when I was a child and it was terrifying. It felt like being momentarily paralysed. I was able to recover just by waiting (I don't know what happened or why - somehow my lungs just started working again) but maybe a child with asthma would have trouble?

 

[31550]

Hypothetically, I'm just speculating: maybe William ran flat out down a steep slope, tripped forward, hit the ground full force on his chest, all the air was knocked out of his lungs, for a minute he couldn't breathe - neither in nor out - and his head was downhill.

Possible, but what happened next? Where did he go? Asthma attacks don't make kids disappear.

 

[Lady O]

Possible, but what happened next? Where did he go? Asthma attacks don't make kids disappear.

And their aren't a reason to hide the body.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Some quotes about William's asthma are in post 1,330 in part 2.

In particular:

• he would get wheezy under walking stress or a lot of activity
• FF thought it possible he might do an uncontrolled gravity run down a slope, but that would start him coughing
• if his asthma became distressing he would need RediPred to assist breathing

Something that reportedly did happen: a suggestion was made to William - "Why don't you see if Daddy's home yet?"
or
"Why don't we [William, his sister, and FM] go down and see if Daddy's car is here yet". (post 65)

Statements by the fosters say that William went around the corner, out of sight.

Hypothetically, I'm just speculating: maybe William ran flat out down a steep slope, tripped forward, hit the ground full force on his chest, all the air was knocked out of his lungs, for a minute he couldn't breathe - neither in nor out - and his head was downhill.

This happened to me when I was a child and it was terrifying. It felt like being momentarily paralysed. I was able to recover just by waiting (I don't know what happened or why - somehow my lungs just started working again) but maybe a child with asthma would have trouble?

Question: if he went around the corner to go and check if FFs car was home yet then why would he go that way? Did FF park in the driveway? I suspect so. So the direction around the corner merely goes to the bottom gravel driveway. Mmmmmm. So if the suggestion was from FM to do that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Am i correct in saying that to get to the top driveway that way he’d need to go out on to the street and up to the top driveway. That is much longer than staying on the top grass areas off the verandah and merely going through the carport.

Seems strange if you ask me. Wasn’t there a retaining wall butting the lower gravel driveway and a garden. If she sent him that way to check on FF then it means he was wandering the full length of the house and traversing through garden to reach the pathway OR went onto the road. Would she have placed him at that risk?…..at that age?

Indeed wouldn’t she have stopped him and told him to go through the carport if that was his mission. Personally I think so.

 

[stormbird]

Question: if he went around the corner to go and check if FFs car was home yet then why would he go that way? Did FF park in the driveway? I suspect so. So the direction around the corner merely goes to the bottom gravel driveway. Mmmmmm. So if the suggestion was from FM to do that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Am i correct in saying that to get to the top driveway that way he’d need to go out on to the street and up to the top driveway. That is much longer than staying on the top grass areas off the verandah and merely going through the carport.

Seems strange if you ask me. Wasn’t there a retaining wall butting the lower gravel driveway and a garden. If she sent him that way to check on FF then it means he was wandering the full length of the house and traversing through garden to reach the pathway OR went onto the road. Would she have placed him at that risk?…..at that age?

Indeed wouldn’t she have stopped him and told him to go through the carport if that was his mission. Personally I think so.

I agree, I think it doesn't make sense that he would head to the right (east) from the patio, or not unless William had ever watched and waited for FF down on the road near Wilson's (no. 30) or Sharpley's (no. 31), or watched for him from the high side of the verandah (if from there he could see FF driving along that lower leg of Benaroon Drive - and to get to the high side of the verandah he would have needed to climb up the steps near the clothesline or run through the house without being noticed from the patio).

I think it's more likely a three-year-old would expect to find Daddy or Daddy's car wherever he saw them last - presumably near the carport and the upper driveway, and that would have been only a few metres around the corner to the left, not the right.

But both FM and FGM indicated that they last saw him going around the corner to the right (past the clothes line, in the direction retraced in FGM's walk-through). That makes sense if he was playing on the little lawn there and jumping out to roar at them, but to me it doesn't make sense if instead he was looking for Daddy.

 

[Lady O]

Question: if he went around the corner to go and check if FFs car was home yet then why would he go that way? Did FF park in the driveway? I suspect so. So the direction around the corner merely goes to the bottom gravel driveway. Mmmmmm. So if the suggestion was from FM to do that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Am i correct in saying that to get to the top driveway that way he’d need to go out on to the street and up to the top driveway. That is much longer than staying on the top grass areas off the verandah and merely going through the carport.

Seems strange if you ask me. Wasn’t there a retaining wall butting the lower gravel driveway and a garden. If she sent him that way to check on FF then it means he was wandering the full length of the house and traversing through garden to reach the pathway OR went onto the road. Would she have placed him at that risk?…..at that age?

Indeed wouldn’t she have stopped him and told him to go through the carport if that was his mission. Personally I think so.

Yes pretty much. I didn't really get how steep the block was and the level changes originally. He would have had to go down to the footpath before he could cross to the top level driveway.

It doesn't make any sense. It's far more likely he wanted to see him coming down the road, in which case he would have gone in the other direction. There is like a clearing through the trees to the road.

 

[31550]

The whole "looking for Daddy's car" episode is merely one part of the overall narrative that has been implanted in the public subconscious - there is NO evidence that it actually happened at all, and no reason to believe there is any truth to it. IMO.

 

[Lady O]

The whole "looking for Daddy's car" episode is merely one part of the overall narrative that has been implanted in the public subconscious - there is NO evidence that it actually happened at all, and no reason to believe there is any truth to it. IMO.

And wouldn't you say, "don't go on the road" or "stay where I can see you".

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The whole "looking for Daddy's car" episode is merely one part of the overall narrative that has been implanted in the public subconscious - there is NO evidence that it actually happened at all, and no reason to believe there is any truth to it. IMO.

Yes that is true. That said if you strip back what are potential lies (the foster stories) you hopefully are left with that which is MOST LIKELY true and also a contemporaneous account unlikely to be manipulated yet…….the FD version. That’s why I started with that because it is most likely what happened at least to the time he left her company.

Unless he was incapacitated at the point FM told FD a story about where WT had gone and she recited that story. Also possible.

 

[passball]

Have listened to 3 episodes of the Witness podcasts and have stopped at the 4th, I can't deal with it.
I don't find any of it being 'investigative' and the stalking crossed the line.

 

[js47]

Question: if he went around the corner to go and check if FFs car was home yet then why would he go that way? Did FF park in the driveway? I suspect so. So the direction around the corner merely goes to the bottom gravel driveway. Mmmmmm. So if the suggestion was from FM to do that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Am i correct in saying that to get to the top driveway that way he’d need to go out on to the street and up to the top driveway. That is much longer than staying on the top grass areas off the verandah and merely going through the carport.

Seems strange if you ask me. Wasn’t there a retaining wall butting the lower gravel driveway and a garden. If she sent him that way to check on FF then it means he was wandering the full length of the house and traversing through garden to reach the pathway OR went onto the road. Would she have placed him at that risk?…..at that age?

Indeed wouldn’t she have stopped him and told him to go through the carport if that was his mission. Personally I think so.

EXACTLY! And……there lies the very big question mark…..ODD……and FGM backed her up. No sane person would let a child go that way. Even to the car port unsupervised to meet some one in A VERY BIG 4 wheel drive.

 

[js47]

The whole "looking for Daddy's car" episode is merely one part of the overall narrative that has been implanted in the public subconscious - there is NO evidence that it actually happened at all, and no reason to believe there is any truth to it. IMO.

The Fosters are very vocal. I am sure they would have made it very known that did not happen. But I like shake up in my views.

 

[passball]

Yes that is true. That said if you strip back what are potential lies (the foster stories) you hopefully are left with that which is MOST LIKELY true and also a contemporaneous account unlikely to be manipulated yet…….the FD version. That’s why I started with that because it is most likely what happened at least to the time he left her company.

Unless he was incapacitated at the point FM told FD a story about where WT had gone and she recited that story. Also possible.

Didn't the FD say that a bad man took William?
Don't think that's on any shows that a 4 year old watches that would make her think that.
Just a little white lie the FPs have told her along with telling her William went looking for 'daddy's' car.
I'm doing a really great job at believing nothing.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The whole "looking for Daddy's car" episode is merely one part of the overall narrative that has been implanted in the public subconscious - there is NO evidence that it actually happened at all, and no reason to believe there is any truth to it. IMO.

None of us know. But it is possible to analyse possibilities and in this instance I’m focusing specifically with FD relayed comments because her true testimony (if it is) is most likely untainted. We can also determine whether it is illogical (and it clearly is by that direction). That then means:

• it was a lie relayed by FM; or
• was WT storming off in a huff in dispute with FM to find FF and likely followed by FM which I now favour

I now suspect WT walked off to find FF but likely in dispute with FM to have her control usurped by FF if he could be found. So partly truth by FD but the story sanitised to be innocent by FM twisting it. Why did the story oscillate and morph to him instead going around the coroner roaring. Imo because FM knew this exchange was the major risk to her in what happened so she changed it to deflect it to a ‘last roar’

 

[passball]

None of us know. But it is possible to analyse possibilities and in this instance I’m focusing specifically with FD relayed comments because her true testimony (if it is) is most likely untainted. We can also determine whether it is illogical (and it clearly is by that direction). That then means:

• it was a lie relayed by FM; or
• was WT storming off in a huff in dispute with FM to find FF and likely followed by FM which I now favour

I now suspect WT walked off to find FF but likely in dispute with FM to have her control usurped by FF if he could be found. So partly truth by FD but the story sanitised to be innocent by FM twisting it. Why did the story oscillate and morph to him instead going around the coroner roaring. Imo because FM knew this exchange was the major risk to her in what happened so she changed it to deflect it to a ‘last roar’

Makes the storybook sound better ending with THE ROAR. The end.
THE FGM said she didn't hear it.
And this is where it happened.
And then it was deathly quiet.

 

[Lady O]

Didn't the FD say that a bad man took William?
Don't think that's on any shows that a 4 year old watches that would make her think that.
Just a little white lie the FPs have told her along with telling her William went looking for 'daddy's' car.
I'm doing a really great job at believing nothing.

Where did you hear that FD said "a bad man took William"?

 

[js47]

Wm. Ran around the corner. FGM statement in her video. FM has said he was too quiet.
The point is he was allowed to go down that side of the house. Where he could not be observed.
The result of that adult decision is where is Wm.?

 

[stormbird]

None of us know. But it is possible to analyse possibilities and in this instance I’m focusing specifically with FD relayed comments because her true testimony (if it is) is most likely untainted. We can also determine whether it is illogical (and it clearly is by that direction). That then means:

• it was a lie relayed by FM; or
• was WT storming off in a huff in dispute with FM to find FF and likely followed by FM which I now favour

I now suspect WT walked off to find FF but likely in dispute with FM to have her control usurped by FF if he could be found. So partly truth by FD but the story sanitised to be innocent by FM twisting it. Why did the story oscillate and morph to him instead going around the coroner roaring. Imo because FM knew this exchange was the major risk to her in what happened so she changed it to deflect it to a ‘last roar’

Angry Red Bull, are you referring to "Lindsay's" interview as paraphrased in the Overington book (post 56 and the earlier posts replied to)?

If so, I think it's not possible to know from that alone which directions William's sister was indicating. The book has her saying things like "Down here" and "Up there" and that she looked "Everywhere" and doesn't give information about where those places or directions could be (other than for the "balcony"). She might have been meaning anywhere at all when saying those things.

Edited to fix name

 

[passball]

Where did you hear that FD said "a bad man took William"?

I have tried looking for it in here but I can't find it so I think it was something that I have watched.
Definitely know that it was said though.

 

[Lady O]

I have tried looking for it in here but I can't find it so I think it was something that I have watched.
Definitely know that it was said though.

Ok, I can't remember ever hearing or reading that she said that.

 

[passball]

Ok, I can't remember ever hearing or reading that she said that.

I remember it because it gave me the shits that she was told that by the FPs to help with their abduction story.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Angry Red Bull, are you referring to "Lindsay's" interview as paraphrased in the Overington book (post 56 and the earlier posts replied to)?

If so, I think it's not possible to know from that alone which directions William's sister was indicating. The book has her saying things like "Down here" and "Up there" and that she looked "Everywhere" and doesn't give information about where those places or directions could be (other than for the "balcony"). She might have been meaning anywhere at all when saying those things.

Edited to fix name

Reading the interview in its entirety you can discern a number of things:

• that WT went off the balcony to look FFs car
• the direction suggested by the detective from the various discussions with her was around the corner
• when asked specifically why he went around the corner she did what many children do when asked to elaborate…..say I don’t know.
• when asked where they went looking for WT she says up there and then there ie she was saying they looked everywhere for him

I think the message from the interview is she believed and detectives concluded they believed he went around the corner. The many directions were where they went looking for him. Different

The point remains ‘ around the corner’ is illogical to that purpose. So I don’t think it was a FM suggestion of let’s going looking for FF early. She would have went with him if so. I rather suspect they'd had an argument and am suggesting that he did what he perhaps always did and tried to find FF to undermine FM control. So he went around the corner possibly angry. The FM would likely have followed. The FD knew the pattern and he went searching for FF

 

[31550]

I remember it because it gave me the shits that she was told that by the FPs to help with their abduction story.

I remember seeing that (a bad man took William) too. Was it on the "Where's William" website?

 

[Kurve]

I remember seeing that (a bad man took William) too. Was it on the "Where's William" website?

Yeh I heard it too. It may have been in the context of the FM saying the FD may be the only one who saw the person that took Wiliam?

 

[passball]

I remember seeing that (a bad man took William) too. Was it on the "Where's William" website?

I would think it would be on that website, but no, I don't go on there, don't like cults