Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[31550]

We've only seen the relevant images, we don't need to see every single image in that camera.

Actually seeing all the other photos might placate the skeptics who maintain the photos are faked. The police should have examined all photos. But agree the others are irrelevant to the general public.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Actually seeing all the other photos might placate the skeptics who maintain the photos are faked. The police should have examined all photos. But agree the others are irrelevant to the general public.

Interesting point. When you fly elsewhere you change by 2 hr to new time zone and stays constant until changed . When instead you take a time from a TV program that shows time to rounded minute on return you will correct the time to that recorded minute which won't agree to the 120 min but may instead be 118 min and seconds..ie it was the examiner who corrected the time by virtue of the time he saw on the TV program

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Is that a camera that the FF is holding? Appears so to me and others..

 

[stormbird]

When I logged in a minute ago there was a notice saying something I didn't get to read because I'd already clicked Log In but it included "no deviations". Now I can't see it. Does anyone know what it's about?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

When I logged in a minute ago there was a notice saying something I didn't get to read because I'd already clicked Log In but it included "no deviations". Now I can't see it. Does anyone know what it's about?

No

 

[stormbird]

Very true. Just a hunch really. Agree it could have been any day. Only two match in weather terms 7th and Xmas day itself. The party wouldn't have been. Xmas day. Heavily overcast the whole day except for a period right in middle where sun broke through for 2hrs approx . Seemingly they left the carport light on the whole day too. This all matches perfectly. Short direct south shadows like TCP said around 12 to 1pm in summer

Damn. Without looking I now know the sister has at least 2 boys 3-4ish years older than W no more that 18 mths apart in ages.

Thanks Stormbird. You are a legend. These photos can't now be manipulated. What they reveal will stay revealed. I always thought it was a little odd that FD had drawn two pictures of Santa in September. I'm interested too in whats on top of a small round table just inside apart from the brand new teapot for FGM.

The jigsaw pieces are now falling in place

Between the 3rd and 4th photo they went searching for leaves when there was no time gap. Crayons and water bottle pram moved. Mistake. Then between 4th and 5th photo W has his inside tshirt taken off. Yeah 22° is cool but doesn't warrant 3 items of clothing. Perhaps earlier when looked like rain. She said he didn't wear one. She says a lot of things that are wrong. Appears to be somewhat a habit in my opinion

Famous words of FGM......"This is where the photo was taken". Would have been nice to say when though Granny.

ARB, I can't take your hunch seriously. I think it's fanciful to be suggesting that forensic examinations of the photos could have failed to find evidence of criminal manipulation if any such tampering had occurred, but then to suggest you're able to find evidence online.

If any member of the public is capable of examining shadows in photos, so are the people who examine visual images for the police, but presumably they have the advantage of better technology, more experience, and access to original photos, camera, files, and maybe even the location.

Plus, FM was reportedly the sole person of interest in the time leading up to being questioned at the NSW Crime Commission (which investigates criminal conspiracies). The timing of the photos would be important when asking questions about that morning, so IMO it's likely the NSWCC would have checked and verified the photos before FM appeared there. And presumably during their questioning it was found that she had not lied about when the photos were taken - because she wasn't charged with lying about that.

IMO if the photos had been faked, we would not be sitting around here now, over three years after the NSWCC interviews, waiting for the coroner's findings and the results of the apparently never-ending evaluation of the police brief by the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

ARB, I can't take your hunch seriously. I think it's fanciful to be suggesting that forensic examinations of the photos could have failed to find evidence of criminal manipulation if any such tampering had occurred, but then to suggest you're able to find evidence online.

If any member of the public is capable of examining shadows in photos, so are the people who examine visual images for the police, but presumably they have the advantage of better technology, more experience, and access to original photos, camera, files, and maybe even the location.

Plus, FM was reportedly the sole person of interest in the time leading up to being questioned at the NSW Crime Commission (which investigates criminal conspiracies). The timing of the photos would be important when asking questions about that morning, so IMO it's likely the NSWCC would have checked and verified the photos before FM appeared there. And presumably during their questioning it was found that she had not lied about when the photos were taken - because she wasn't charged with lying about that.

IMO if the photos had been faked, we would not be sitting around here now, over three years after the NSWCC interviews, waiting for the coroner's findings and the results of the apparently never-ending evaluation of the police brief by the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

All will come into focus in due course

 

[Lady O]

When I logged in a minute ago there was a notice saying something I didn't get to read because I'd already clicked Log In but it included "no deviations". Now I can't see it. Does anyone know what it's about?

 

[stormbird]

View attachment 2255501

Thanks, Lady O. I'm an idiot!

 

[Lady O]

Famous words of FGM......"This is where the photo was taken". Would have been nice to say when though Granny.

I think the famous words of FGM were "This is where it all happened". No mention of photos.

 

[stormbird]

All will come into focus in due course

Well, maybe. We can only hope.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think the famous words of FGM were "This is where it all happened". No mention of photos.

No it was both. First she said this is where it all happened then followed to say ...this was where the photo was taken..look again if you must

The first was inside just before she went on verandah. The second was after she sat down outside

 

[31550]

Is that a camera that the FF is holding? Appears so to me and others..

Looks like the front straps and buckle for his backpack. Could also be holding his phone and or wallet. Impossible to be certain with such poor resolution.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Looks like the front straps and buckle for his backpack. Could also be holding his phone and or wallet. Impossible to be certain with such poor resolution.

Looks to me that the white is the reflection off top of a high quality lens. Agree there could be buckle held too.

The good quality cameras come with brand name straps. I think he is holding both ends of the straps

 

[shorsky]

Is that a camera that the FF is holding? Appears so to me and others..

Is that really FF ? Looks like a female chest…

And it looks to me like he’s got a backpack or something on, with the strap around him & fastening in front.

 

[shorsky]

Looks like the front straps and buckle for his backpack. Could also be holding his phone and or wallet. Impossible to be certain with such poor resolution.

I think it looks like a backpack too. But why would he put a backpack on when going in for dinner ?

Logical answer for me would be that it contained the children’s pyjamas etc - but we heard they didn’t change them there, instead had to pull off the road further on to put their pull-ups on

 

[31550]

I think it looks like a backpack too. But why would he put a backpack on when going in for dinner ?

Logical answer for me would be that it contained the children’s pyjamas etc - but we heard they didn’t change them there, instead had to pull off the road further on to put their pull-ups on

I thought the same, and always wondered why it was necessary to make the roadside stop. It indicates lack of parenting skills, or lack of planning, or other distractions. It does not support the 'one big happy family' narrative. It sounds like their minds were on other things. The decision to leave early was made about 1pm - plenty of time to plan the drive, organise healthy snacks for the children to eat on the way up, or plan a proper stop with changes into pullups and pyjamas if necessary. It seems all the decisions movements and actions were unplanned and reactive, rather than being planned and executed with the 'military precision' (referred to in the FF narrative). Family in chaos if you ask me.

 

[winyhill]

Impossible to be certain with such poor resolution.

True, and don't forget they would have been captured on multiple cameras there, including one right over the register. The Police only released publicly that little bit but they would have coverage of the entire time they were at the McDonalds and would have reviewed it all.
I think we are going down rabbit holes with conspiracy about cameras and forged photos and photos being taken in mid-summer.

 

[LRitz]

A 2015 Daily Telegraph article quotes Judy Wilson. She describes what she heard as little children playing and laughing.

From the article:

Judy Wilson, whose fence sits just 10m from where William was taken, heard him and his sister playing earlier that morning before she headed into town to run some errands.

When she returned, the street was in chaos.

“I wasn’t home and my husband wasn’t home. The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.

“I don’t think it was an opportunistic grab from someone who just happened to be here because we don’t get strangers wandering around.”

https://dailytelegraph.com.au/news/...r/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

Thanks Merlina.

Neighbour Wilson sounds she is sure that this was before 8:30. She says they sound like they were laughing. Interesting that she is surprised that there would be a stranger in the street. "Her fence sits 10 Metres....". This gives us an impression that Judy was very close to the children. But we do not know where William was taken, The lower drive or the upper drive way. Where were they playing ? Where they allegedly on their bikes and on the driveway. Or where was Judy when she heard them . My quick look at the street map puts here house more like 70 m from the patio at #48. So they must have been making a bit of noise. Could she discern if they were laughing or in distress?

The original statement of FM there is no mention of kids playing outside at this time, but then again there is no mention of parked cars or the strange man driving past.

What is a bit odd to me IMO only is that the kids had breakfast so late. Possibly around 9:00 and then did not finish until after 9:00 after FF left and and they sat with FGM (allegedly by FM). Then they play outside, so closer to 9:15. My thinking is that little kids are hungry first thing, and if awake around 7:00 would not wait to 9:00 to have breakfast. I think it would be usual for breakfast first ,then get dressed, and then be ready for outside play. But there we have as witnessed by neighbour Judy, the kids outside early and before they have eaten. Maybe they do things differently. But just another thing that seems odd to me IMO.

 

[LRitz]

I thought the same, and always wondered why it was necessary to make the roadside stop. It indicates lack of parenting skills, or lack of planning, or other distractions. It does not support the 'one big happy family' narrative. It sounds like their minds were on other things. The decision to leave early was made about 1pm - plenty of time to plan the drive, organise healthy snacks for the children to eat on the way up, or plan a proper stop with changes into pullups and pyjamas if necessary. It seems all the decisions movements and actions were unplanned and reactive, rather than being planned and executed with the 'military precision' (referred to in the FF narrative). Family in chaos if you ask me.

I am not sure what FF is holding. Wallet, Phone, Camera all possible.

This shows more of the pictures of McDonalds. Not really all that helpful, IMO. William on FF's shoulders as they enter, but he is walking out near FM.
Still looking for kids on shoulders at McDonalds or cafes. Haven't seen any yet. Will let you know.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/new-photos-show-william-tyrrell-eating-his-last-meal-at-mcdonalds/news-story/cf63685dc17b1821be129ba53766d25f

 

[Merlina]

I think it looks like a backpack too. But why would he put a backpack on when going in for dinner ?

Logical answer for me would be that it contained the children’s pyjamas etc - but we heard they didn’t change them there, instead had to pull off the road further on to put their pull-ups on

The backpack could contain his laptop. I can't tell the size of the bag from the photos, so it's just a guess.

I thought of it because my husband and I have often done the same thing on car trips - brought our work laptops in with us when we stop because we didn't like leaving them in the car, especially if we couldn't see the car from where we were sitting & eating.

If you look at other photos of FF, he's often got a bag slung over his shoulder.

 

[stormbird]

Thanks Merlina.

Neighbour Wilson sounds she is sure that this was before 8:30. She says they sound like they were laughing. Interesting that she is surprised that there would be a stranger in the street. "Her fence sits 10 Metres....". This gives us an impression that Judy was very close to the children. But we do not know where William was taken, The lower drive or the upper drive way. Where were they playing ? Where they allegedly on their bikes and on the driveway. Or where was Judy when she heard them . My quick look at the street map puts here house more like 70 m from the patio at #48. So they must have been making a bit of noise. Could she discern if they were laughing or in distress?

The original statement of FM there is no mention of kids playing outside at this time, but then again there is no mention of parked cars or the strange man driving past.

What is a bit odd to me IMO only is that the kids had breakfast so late. Possibly around 9:00 and then did not finish until after 9:00 after FF left and and they sat with FGM (allegedly by FM). Then they play outside, so closer to 9:15. My thinking is that little kids are hungry first thing, and if awake around 7:00 would not wait to 9:00 to have breakfast. I think it would be usual for breakfast first ,then get dressed, and then be ready for outside play. But there we have as witnessed by neighbour Judy, the kids outside early and before they have eaten. Maybe they do things differently. But just another thing that seems odd to me IMO.

LRitz, re: "Neighbour Wilson sounds she is sure that this was before 8:30."

Where are you getting the 8:30 from?

Re 10 metres: the article was by Lia Harris, who was somehow associated with the Where's William campaign, and it was published 6 Sep 2015 - the same day that 60 Minutes did a show about William's disappearance which showed reporter Michael Usher talking to then-lead detective Gary Jubelin while standing at the edge of Benaroon Drive - across the road from where FM claimed the two parked cars had been sitting (cars which the same 60 Minutes "exclusively" revealed). The spot where Usher & Jubelin were standing was presumably supposed to illustrate the spot where William might have been snatched away by lurking bad guys, and it was probably not much further than 10 metres from the Wilsons' boundary.

 

[31550]

I am not sure what FF is holding. Wallet, Phone, Camera all possible.

This shows more of the pictures of McDonalds. Not really all that helpful, IMO. William on FF's shoulders as they enter, but he is walking out near FM.
Still looking for kids on shoulders at McDonalds or cafes. Haven't seen any yet. Will let you know.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/new-photos-show-william-tyrrell-eating-his-last-meal-at-mcdonalds/news-story/cf63685dc17b1821be129ba53766d25f

I don't find kids on shoulders unusual. I used to put my own son on my shoulders like this when he was little. He enjoyed it, and also it left my hands free to carry stuff, pay for things etc. as well as keeping him from wandering off or bumping into things, as toddlers of that age are prone to do. It's hard to operate anything while holding a toddler's hand.

 

[stormbird]

Where are you getting the 8:30 from?


Re 10 metres: the article was by Lia Harris, who was somehow associated with the Where's William campaign, and it was published 6 Sep 2015 - the same day that 60 Minutes did a show about William's disappearance which showed reporter Michael Usher talking to then-lead detective Gary Jubelin while standing at the edge of Benaroon Drive - across the road from where FM claimed the two parked cars had been sitting (cars which the same 60 Minutes "exclusively" revealed). The spot where Usher & Jubelin were standing was presumably supposed to illustrate the spot where William might have been snatched away by lurking bad guys, and it was probably not much further than 10 metres from the Wilsons' boundary.

Screenshot marked up by me - the Wilsons' boundary can't be seen but it would be about midway between the people and driveway:

---

---

From 60 Minutes Australia, YouTube (and the link should go to about 23:00 minutes, when Det Insp Jubelin explains his theory of abduction).

 

[winyhill]

I don't find kids on shoulders unusual. I used to put my own son on my shoulders like this when he was little. He enjoyed it, and also it left my hands free to carry stuff, pay for things etc. as well as keeping him from wandering off or bumping into things, as toddlers of that age are prone to do. It's hard to operate anything while holding a toddler's hand.

Agree, I cant see anything nefarious about the boy being on his FF's shoulders. As well as all the practical reasons listed, kids just love it and no doubt he was begging to be lifted up.