Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[stormbird]

I'm thinking that the most likely scenario that tends to link all our unexplained clues is this:

FM is a dysfunctional Mum who fails to connect with WT and has regular flash points with him especially when FF isn't there. Physical smacking. It might seem inconceivable but parental dysfunction can extend to abandonment of the parenting responsibility entirely where in a fit of irrational response to the predicament in desperation FM takes WT by car and drops him somewhere telling him to go home to his bio parents or that she doesn't want him any more. Batar cr Rd. Drives home. FGM cryptic comment about "bouncing out of his skull" .....evidence of physical abuse imo. One post that sticks out to me was a comment that when FM spoke to neighbours she asked where bus stop was? Did I get that correctly? WHY? Was WT planning to run away on his own and catch a bus? if I have this correct that's a very strange comment because it implies self governance for a very young child and is totally incongruous.

By the time she comes around and starts thinking rationally again he has been snatched and is gone.

She has to hide her behaviour and point to abduction so:

- hides the existence of this trip initially but ultimately changes it's purpose to look for WT when in fact it was to abandon him

- talks about the mysterious two cars to establish the possibility of abduction when it actually was but from Batar cr Rd not Benaroon

- WT snatched two cars which are then seen by RC on Laurel St driving crazy

- no injury or death, no blood, nor a body which is compatible with house and surrounds lack of evidence and lack of time for a crime and aftermath

- cryptic comment between FM and FF when he arrived home. Do you have him? It's as though she dropped him off somewhere hoping that FF picked him up on way home

- police report happens faster than is usual because FM knows she facilitates the snatch by abandoning him. This point is rather important. If it was accidental death you would extend the time before report. You would only truncate if you knew he was taken and because of your abandonment

All makes sense to me sadly

Just on the bus stop: all I've seen reported was that it was the first neighbour - AMS at No.31 - who suggested they search there:

From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p.98, talking about the inquest hearing on 26 March 2019:
"Mr Craddock asked Ms [AMS] about the bus stop. She said she too went to the bus stop near the end of Batar Creek Road.* In fact, she had directed [FM] there because she knew it was decorated with paintings of animals which she thought might attract a toddler."

*The bus stop was on Benaroon Drive though, not as the book says "near the end of Batar Creek Road": Google Maps Street View, March 2010
I hope the link shows a view looking north along Batar Creek Road (in the direction of Kendall shops 1km+ away) with Benaroon Drive turning off to the left.

 

[31550]

She said she too went to the bus stop near the end of Batar Creek Road.

Maybe she meant "The bus stop near the end of Benaroon Drive where it meets Batar Ck Rd".

It's a short walk from FGM's house, but you cannot see the shelter directly from outside FGM's house - you'd have to walk halfway down the road before you saw it, because the road turns slightly and has a small crest. So, FM would need to be 'directed' to the bus stop if she didn't know where it was.

William could have got to the bus shelter on foot by himself in a few minutes. But his scent wasn't picked up by sniffer dogs later that day. I wonder if the sniffer dogs were led to the bus stop at any stage and if they detected anything?


But at the coronial inquest Craddock asked about a bus shelter on Batar Creek Road. This was when he was questioning FM about the drive. There was a discrepancy about the colour of the shelter which was white when William went missing, but FM testified she was sure it was blue in 2014. AMS and Heslop both shook their heads at this. (All according to Chumley)

PS: Using Google Maps I don't see any bus shelters at all on Batar Ck Rd. Only the one on Benaroon Drive near the corner.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

So, the very first (and only) person who sees WT after being abandoned is a child snatcher / murderer? Too fanciful

You suggest it's fanciful and were you opting a choice in absence of the entire evidence then it would be unlikely. But there are so many facts that explain themselves on this hypothesis. Truncating the time to police report rather than expand it limits the likelihood of an accidental or violent death with Fosters involvement. There are many cases where when confronted with such a death the perps would take ages to report.....meticulously planning explanation and hiding body. Yet here the call happened faster than usual reporting does. Statistics tell you that. Why? Because they didn't kill WT accidental or intentional and wanted him found. But they have lied about the car trip and about the mystery cars. Why? To hide behaviour that is culpable and contributory falling short of direct perpetration. Makes sense to me

I've always struggled to understand how an opportunistic abduction occurred in a dead end street where hardy anyone goes other than the residents and at house surrounds 70 metres away from street. Didn't imo. Unlikely. But if you leave an unattended child alone on a busy st it changes the risk profile entirely and becomes a likely explanation

Was it a female and man in separate cars per RC? Or a Frank Abbott type random? Both are possible but more likely a Frank Abbott type you'd have to say.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't think you can rule out any theories, but some are more likely than others.

No 1 would be "friendly" abduction - someone who knew where they were and waited till they could take him, so he would not be adopted by the fosters, and raise him in their own family.

No 2 abduction by neighbour or visitor to the neighbourhood.

No 3 accidental death and concealment of the body by FM.

No 4 opportunistic abduction.

We learned from Cleo Smith and similarly Greg Lynn that sometimes the truth is stranger than anything we can imagine.

Did the bios have any advanced knowledge of the visit? My original thinking was just that your no 1. The RC sighting of female and male too then consistent. But to take him they would have to have surveilled and snatched at just the right moment.

Of course the thought that WT ran around the corner and growled at thin air is (based upon my understanding of child play behaviour) totally improbable. He could though growl at someone he knew

I then listened to bio mums detailed interview where she broke down in tears totally devastated. If they were she was the best actress I'd ever seen. Totally believable. Closed my mind to that choice for me

 

[31550]

Did the bios have any advanced knowledge of the visit? My original thinking was just that your no 1. The RC sighting of female and male too then consistent. But to take him they would have to have surveilled and snatched at just the right moment.

Of course the thought that WT ran around the corner and growled at thin air is (based upon my understanding of child play behaviour) totally improbable. He could though growl at someone he knew

I then listened to bio mums detailed interview where she broke down in tears totally devastated. If they were she was the best actress I'd ever seen. Totally believable. Closed my mind to that choice for me

I agree the bios can be ruled out categorically as potential suspects. Would have had little if any knowledge of William's exact whereabouts. Wouldn't have had the means of travelling to Kendall and taking William or organising someone else to do so without being caught.

Someone known to the foster family however is still a possibility. Did FGM have a boyfriend, or close acquaintance? Did police thoroughly investigate Geoff Owen and his associates (including Frank Abbot). Were there any other regular tradies or service people visiting the house? FGM was getting the deck fixed; what other work was being done to ready the house for sale? But you would think all of this would have been done in the early part of the investigation, and then revisited by Jubelin when he took over, and probably a third time when Jubelin was bounced?

This is why I think 'planned abduction' is very unlikely. Police would have been able to close in on a small circle of possible suspects.

But with an unplanned / opportunistic abduction, it's almost impossible to build a list of potential suspects.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I agree the bios can be ruled out categorically as potential suspects. Would have had little if any knowledge of William's exact whereabouts. Wouldn't have had the means of travelling to Kendall and taking William or organising someone else to do so without being caught.

Someone known to the foster family however is still a possibility. Did FGM have a boyfriend, or close acquaintance? Did police thoroughly investigate Geoff Owen and his associates (including Frank Abbot). Were there any other regular tradies or service people visiting the house? FGM was getting the deck fixed; what other work was being done to ready the house for sale? But you would think all of this would have been done in the early part of the investigation, and then revisited by Jubelin when he took over, and probably a third time when Jubelin was bounced?

This is why I think 'planned abduction' is very unlikely. Police would have been able to close in on a small circle of possible suspects.

But with an unplanned / opportunistic abduction, it's almost impossible to build a list of potential suspects.

You presuppose that the knowledge came from tradies. I'm more inclined to think that FGM ( who was clearly a social butterfly and talks incessantly) had opened her mouth extensively when she was at the community's centre the day before and it was there that a conversation may have been overheard about the kids visiting. That said it still remains a long shot that they be targeted simply because they were to be there with FGM and FPs. Even if a perp was there and overheard a conversation it doesn't make it automatically a good choice for an abduction.

By being there and seeing the kids it does overcome a significant obstacle to opportunistic abduction. that no one goes into Benaroon unless they live there.

 

[stormbird]

Maybe she meant "The bus stop near the end of Benaroon Drive where it meets Batar Ck Rd".

It's a short walk from FGM's house, but you cannot see the shelter directly from outside FGM's house - you'd have to walk halfway down the road before you saw it, because the road turns slightly and has a small crest. So, FM would need to be 'directed' to the bus stop if she didn't know where it was.

William could have got to the bus shelter on foot by himself in a few minutes. But his scent wasn't picked up by sniffer dogs later that day. I wonder if the sniffer dogs were led to the bus stop at any stage and if they detected anything?


But at the coronial inquest Craddock asked about a bus shelter on Batar Creek Road. This was when he was questioning FM about the drive. There was a discrepancy about the colour of the shelter which was white when William went missing, but FM testified she was sure it was blue in 2014. AMS and Heslop both shook their heads at this. (All according to Chumley)

PS: Using Google Maps I don't see any bus shelters at all on Batar Ck Rd. Only the one on Benaroon Drive near the corner.

There was a bus shelter on Batar Creek Road at the intersection with Cedar Loggers Lane (near where police searched briefly in late June 2018 after swapping from the earlier search area around Benaroon Drive): Google Maps Street View, March 2010, looking south along Batar Creek Road which heads to the left, with Cedar Loggers Lane turning off to the right.

And this photo from 13 September 2014 (Day 2 of the original search for William) shows part of the bus shelter on Benaroon Drive:

caption: "SES volunteers join the search for missing 3-year-old William Tyrell, September 13, 2014 (ABC News: David Spicer)"
From: Gallery: Missing boy William Tyrell[sic], ABC News, 16 Sep 2014

This is the passage from Searching for Spiderman, pages 92 & 93:

"My headmasterly nickname for counsel assisting the coroner - The Boss - felt particularly apt as he questioned [FM] about her search along Batar Creek Road that Friday in 2014. He displayed a photo taken in 2018 showing a bus shelter on that road. He noted that when William went missing, it had been white. But [FM] testified she was sure it was blue in 2014. She looked confused, defensive. The Boss deftly took the reins and used his best school principal's tone to keep her on task. Both [AMS] and [LH] shook their heads at the bus stop business, evidently puzzled by [FM]'s evidence."

IMO neither of those bus shelters looks blue OR white. Maybe AMS and LH were shaking their heads because they'd had to travel to Sydney for a waste-of-time inquest to talk about the colour of bus shelters? MOO

 

[31550]

There was a bus shelter on Batar Creek Road at the intersection with Cedar Loggers Lane (near where police searched briefly in late June 2018 after swapping from the earlier search area around Benaroon Drive): Google Maps Street View, March 2010, looking south along Batar Creek Road which heads to the left, with Cedar Loggers Lane turning off to the right.

And this photo from 13 September 2014 (Day 2 of the original search for William) shows part of the bus shelter on Benaroon Drive:

caption: "SES volunteers join the search for missing 3-year-old William Tyrell, September 13, 2014 (ABC News: David Spicer)"
From: Gallery: Missing boy William Tyrell[sic], ABC News, 16 Sep 2014

This is the passage from Searching for Spiderman, pages 92 & 93:

"My headmasterly nickname for counsel assisting the coroner - The Boss - felt particularly apt as he questioned [FM] about her search along Batar Creek Road that Friday in 2014. He displayed a photo taken in 2018 showing a bus shelter on that road. He noted that when William went missing, it had been white. But [FM] testified she was sure it was blue in 2014. She looked confused, defensive. The Boss deftly took the reins and used his best school principal's tone to keep her on task. Both [AMS] and [LH] shook their heads at the bus stop business, evidently puzzled by [FM]'s evidence."

IMO neither of those bus shelters looks blue OR white. Maybe AMS and LH were shaking their heads because they'd had to travel to Sydney for a waste-of-time inquest to talk about the colour of bus shelters? MOO

But the bus shelter at Cedars Logging Lane could be classified as ' at the end of Batar Creek Road'. Perhaps this is the one which was discussed at the coronial inquest?

Note this is quite a distance further than the riding school.

 

[stormbird]

But the bus shelter at Cedars Logging Lane could be classified as ' at the end of Batar Creek Road'. Perhaps this is the one which was discussed at the coronial inquest?

Note this is quite a distance further than the riding school.

Well, who knows, right? But don't forget the quote back in post 8,030: "She [neighbour AMS from Benaroon Drive] said she too went to the bus stop near the end of Batar Creek Road. In fact, she had directed [FM] there because she knew it was decorated with paintings of animals which she thought might attract a toddler."

Were there paintings of animals decorating the bus stop in Batar Creek? Is it likely that AMS and FM travelled 4 kilometres to Batar Creek to check whether William was there? I think the most likely explanation is that the Chumley book got it wrong and said "Batar Creek Road" when it should have said "Benaroon Drive". But as to what was discussed at the inquest about FM's drive, hardly anything has been reported, so it's anyone's guess, IMO.

 

[stormbird]

"Detectives said they were working to paint a picture of who was where they should not have been when [the missing child] disappeared."

That's a photo caption in an article about an unrelated case, but it seems like a good idea for any case, IMO.

Was there anybody "where they should not have been" when William disappeared (or alternatively, not where they should have been)?

Quote is from: How a police operation over 18 agonising days led to Cleo Smith's rescue and her kidnapper's jailing, ABC News, 05 April 2023

 

[31550]

"Detectives said they were working to paint a picture of who was where they should not have been when [the missing child] disappeared."

That's a photo caption in an article about an unrelated case, but it seems like a good idea for any case, IMO.

Was there anybody "where they should not have been" when William disappeared (or alternatively, not where they should have been)?

Quote is from: How a police operation over 18 agonising days led to Cleo Smith's rescue and her kidnapper's jailing, ABC News, 05 April 2023

The problem is that you can't ask this question of the entire population - you have to ask a selected range of people. This was more doable in Cleo's case because of the remote location, so only a small number of people to look at.

Only a few people have substantiated alibis for their whereabouts when William went missing: FF, Spedding, the bio parents, ...

But there are countless people with unverified alibis for where they were at the time of William's disappearance. This may include FM and FGM as we only have their own testimony and an 'estimated time'. (Unless unreleased phone records can prove otherwise - we don't know exactly where they were at all times). And with the neighbours, (e.g. Savage), we are relying on their own testimony for their whereabouts. Most people won't be able to prove exactly where they were.

And there could have been other people at the scene who remain unidentified as POIs. Police never identified the cars that FM says she saw, or the cars that Chapman said he saw. Nobody saw the postie come and go. Nobody saw FM come and go. So I reckon it's quite possible other people drove in and out of Benaroon Drive without ever being identified, if they never came forward.

 

[stormbird]

The problem is that you can't ask this question of the entire population - you have to ask a selected range of people. This was more doable in Cleo's case because of the remote location, so only a small number of people to look at.

Only a few people have substantiated alibis for their whereabouts when William went missing: FF, Spedding, the bio parents, ...

But there are countless people with unverified alibis for where they were at the time of William's disappearance. This may include FM and FGM as we only have their own testimony and an 'estimated time'. (Unless unreleased phone records can prove otherwise - we don't know exactly where they were at all times). And with the neighbours, (e.g. Savage), we are relying on their own testimony for their whereabouts. Most people won't be able to prove exactly where they were.

And there could have been other people at the scene who remain unidentified as POIs. Police never identified the cars that FM says she saw, or the cars that Chapman said he saw. Nobody saw the postie come and go. Nobody saw FM come and go. So I reckon it's quite possible other people drove in and out of Benaroon Drive without ever being identified, if they never came forward.

I was thinking more about people in the community: if William disappeared because someone took him somewhere (which is still only one scenario, IMO) then there might be one or more people who know what happened to him - because they were told about it or have learned something in the years since. A pretty good reason to start having doubts about someone is if you find out later that they lied about where they were or what they doing that day.

Just on this, 31550: "Nobody saw the postie come and go. Nobody saw FM come and go." Are you saying that because you've seen information reported (if so, what does it say?) or are you just guessing? Thanks.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The problem is that you can't ask this question of the entire population - you have to ask a selected range of people. This was more doable in Cleo's case because of the remote location, so only a small number of people to look at.

Only a few people have substantiated alibis for their whereabouts when William went missing: FF, Spedding, the bio parents, ...

But there are countless people with unverified alibis for where they were at the time of William's disappearance. This may include FM and FGM as we only have their own testimony and an 'estimated time'. (Unless unreleased phone records can prove otherwise - we don't know exactly where they were at all times). And with the neighbours, (e.g. Savage), we are relying on their own testimony for their whereabouts. Most people won't be able to prove exactly where they were.

And there could have been other people at the scene who remain unidentified as POIs. Police never identified the cars that FM says she saw, or the cars that Chapman said he saw. Nobody saw the postie come and go. Nobody saw FM come and go. So I reckon it's quite possible other people drove in and out of Benaroon Drive without ever being identified, if they never came forward.

I understand that the car driven by RP being a white station wagon was similar to a car allegedly seen by FM in the street that morning. Of course police have attempted to confirm or deny the account of RP deathbed confession where he said he drove FA and WT 300klm up the coast. Instead it was actually confirmed RP was in hospital from 9 to 3 having dialysis that day. So it can't have been because there is no evidence of that drive.

I think it was NRL fan that had postulated that FA may have attended that morning to help GO do the decking work (he had worked for GO previously ). GO when questioned at the inquest 'thought' he may have been at community centre but when pressed said he couldn't recall, his memory having been damaged by Parkinson's disease. But GO did call FGM that morning after 9am presumably about the decking. Did he send FA there to dismantle the existing deck then rang FGM to let her know? Only the call was unanswered. Surely this would have come out?

Is it possible that FA was using RP car attending to help GO dismantle the existing deck and GOs unanswered call was letting FGM know they were to attend that morning for that purpose? That is classic tradie behavior to sit in cars on site waiting instruction to start. Then the abduction occurred

It's common in deathbed confessions that the party downgrades their own involvement to exonerate themselves. Did FA instead have RPs car? Was WT instead taken to his van?

Anna Baker (a neighbour of FA) accused FA, giving witness at the inquest of hearing a boys scream from bushland surrounding the van the day after WT went missing. I think the police did searches there and found no evidence. Still a boys scream the day after and RP with deathbed confession had also pointed to FA is a line of investigation worth pursuing. FA did work for GO. GO rang that morning about the deck work. Similar car allegedly in street that morning. Boy screams from land around a van occupied by a pedophile FA next day.

I've always had problem of an opportunistic abduction by a pedophile. Why would he be in a dead end street? Maybe to dismantle decking but when the job wasn't confirmed did he take WT instead? And used RPs car.

If he was sitting there watching the kids play and then told work wasn't happening that day. May he shifted focus and knew he had until 3 pm to pick up RP.

 

[31550]

I understand that the car driven by RP being a white station wagon was similar to a car allegedly seen by FM in the street that morning. Of course police have attempted to confirm or deny the account of RP deathbed confession where he said he drove FA and WT 300klm up the coast. Instead it was actually confirmed RP was in hospital from 9 to 3 having dialysis that day. So it can't have been because there is no evidence of that drive.

I don't think RP ever claimed the drive north took place on the same day William disappeared. Do you have a source for that? The two-part Ch7 doco which revealed RPs confession investigated this. Surely they would not have proceeded with the story if it could be so easily established RP was in hospital at the same time?

 

[31550]

Just on this, 31550: "Nobody saw the postie come and go. Nobody saw FM come and go." Are you saying that because you've seen information reported (if so, what does it say?) or are you just guessing? Thanks.

It's more than a guess. The coming and going of cars and neighbours who might have seen them is well documented with some precision in two books and various media reports. With respect to the postie - the Crabbs are reported as hearing a vehicle make a U-turn - they THOUGHT it was the postie. If the exact time the postie came was known, then it would have been reported that this was either consistent or inconsistent with Crabb's account. But in all accounts, the vehicle the Crabbs heard has never been identified.

Similarly with the two vehicles FM saw - nobody was able to corroborate this. If a neighbour had also seen these vehicles we would still be trying to identify them today. Instead, the FM is a POI.

If anyone saw FM drive down Benaroon and Batar Creek Rd, why were they not called to the coronial inquest to corroborate FM's account? The coroner spent some time on this drive.

If one of the key witnesses (AMS, LH, ...) had heard or seen strange vehicles then there would have been a public search for the cars and drivers.

My point is that the crime scene is remote and quiet, and the houses are set well back from the road itself. It would have been quite easy for a vehicle to come and go without anyone noticing.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't think RP ever claimed the drive north took place on the same day William disappeared. Do you have a source for that? The two-part Ch7 doco which revealed RPs confession investigated this. Surely they would not have proceeded with the story if it could be so easily established RP was in hospital at the same time?

No I understand that police had sought to locate RPs car in the several days after the day WT went missing and were able to identify several CCTV confirmations. It never left the locality at least in the several days afterward. I don't consider the drive north as a viable proposition. That doesn't mean FA isn't in the frame anymore. Rather that the trip north was a lie lessening RP role perhaps? if there was a boys scream the following day in bushland surrounding FAs van then that is more likely imo. They also I understand sought to determine if FA could drive so clearly had in mind FA use of RP car

As regards the two cars yes I think it's more likely than not that if they existed they would have been seen by someone and weren't. Yet we are now needing to consider the less likely scenarios by necessity and one of those is that the cars did exist but weren't seen.

I suspect the cars were a lie to convince police that there was an abduction, not to hide a crime they committed but to hide poor parenting and an incident where maybe WT was dropped by FM by car toward or on Batar Cr Rd, after an argument where she lost her cool. She had a guilty mind from that imo. Now of course any lie that is questioned as a lie cast a shadow on FM as being involved in WT demise (accident or otherwise) itself. FM comment to FF on arriving home....."do you have him?" sticks in my mind. Why would he have him unless he perhaps may have collected him on way home which then suggests he was down the road. Yes I understand the human nature aspect of it......please tell me you have him a plea. Still the scenario is possible.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Is it possible that GO had foreshadowed to FA that he had work for him soon to help dismantling a deck for FGM and FA having dropped RP to hospital then went to have a look at the house?....saw the kids playing

There has to be a reason for a pedophile to go there. Either that or increasing risk by having WT dropped away from house after an argument with FM.

Or both.

 

[31550]

No I understand that police had sought to locate RPs car in the several days after the day WT went missing and were able to identify several CCTV confirmations. It never left the locality at least in the several days afterward. I don't consider the drive north as a viable proposition. That doesn't mean FA isn't in the frame anymore. Rather that the trip north was a lie lessening RP role perhaps? if there was a boys scream the following day in bushland surrounding FAs van then that is more likely imo. They also I understand sought to determine if FA could drive so clearly had in mind FA use of RP car

As regards the two cars yes I think it's more likely than not that if they existed they would have been seen by someone and weren't. Yet we are now needing to consider the less likely scenarios by necessity and one of those is that the cars did exist but weren't seen.

I suspect the cars were a lie to convince police that there was an abduction, not to hide a crime they committed but to hide poor parenting and an incident where maybe WT was dropped by FM by car toward or on Batar Cr Rd, after an argument where she lost her cool. She had a guilty mind from that imo. Now of course any lie that is questioned as a lie cast a shadow on FM as being involved in WT demise (accident or otherwise) itself. FM comment to FF on arriving home....."do you have him?" sticks in my mind. Why would he have him unless he perhaps may have collected him on way home which then suggests he was down the road. Yes I understand the human nature aspect of it......please tell me you have him a plea. Still the scenario is possible.

What police know about dying man's William Tyrrell confession

Extraordinary documents have revealed how police are investigating a dying man's startling confession about Australia's most famous missing child, William Tyrrell.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A recent document says in the two days after William vanished, Porter's car was recorded passing the Kew southbound camera on the morning of September 13, 2014, and the north- and south-bound cameras at Port Macquarie, the next day.

 

[31550]

Is it possible that GO had foreshadowed to FA that he had work for him soon to help dismantling a deck for FGM and FA having dropped RP to hospital then went to have a look at the house?....saw the kids playing

There has to be a reason for a pedophile to go there. Either that or increasing risk by having WT dropped away from house after an argument with FM.

Or both.

In FGM walkthrough she speaks about a phone call she (FGM) made to GO on the day of the disappearance. FGM indicates she called him to tell him not to come to the house, and that GO seemed to already know about the disappearance.

I found it suspicious that she needed to talk to GO on that particular day (with so much else going on). What made her so sure William would not be found in the next few hours? What difference would it make if GO came to look at the deck or not?
There was also a phone call made from GO's phone that morning to FGMs house which went unanswered (according to reports). What was the purpose of this call? Was it made by GO, or perhaps FA?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think it was afternoon she rang him. Yes. I don't read too much into FGM doing that. It's that age group....courtesy to respond to missed calls despite whatever's happening in their lives.

What I did find interesting was the way in which the employee from Aged care made the report to police about RP. if I recall correctly they said she had notified a supervisor who didn't report but then had an exchange with another employee. who had told her the police were seeking to get a confession from RP and it was then she made her report. Ie it occurred after the police had already tried to get a confession..I'll try and find the report again where I read that.

If that's true that means they were independently on to RP and FA separately from the deathbed confession.

 

[stormbird]

It's more than a guess. The coming and going of cars and neighbours who might have seen them is well documented with some precision in two books and various media reports. With respect to the postie - the Crabbs are reported as hearing a vehicle make a U-turn - they THOUGHT it was the postie. If the exact time the postie came was known, then it would have been reported that this was either consistent or inconsistent with Crabb's account. But in all accounts, the vehicle the Crabbs heard has never been identified.

Similarly with the two vehicles FM saw - nobody was able to corroborate this. If a neighbour had also seen these vehicles we would still be trying to identify them today. Instead, the FM is a POI.

If anyone saw FM drive down Benaroon and Batar Creek Rd, why were they not called to the coronial inquest to corroborate FM's account? The coroner spent some time on this drive.

If one of the key witnesses (AMS, LH, ...) had heard or seen strange vehicles then there would have been a public search for the cars and drivers.

My point is that the crime scene is remote and quiet, and the houses are set well back from the road itself. It would have been quite easy for a vehicle to come and go without anyone noticing.

It wouldn't be surprising if nobody saw the postie or FM come and go. But just on the postie: as far as I've seen there are no reports about the type of vehicle she drove, and that's odd if the vehicle heard by Mr and Mrs C remains unidentified.

As far as I've found, there's not much information about the time of the postie's mail run; nothing about who received mail that day (was it even necessary for the postie to drive up that end of the road?); and nothing about why the postie reportedly delivered earlier than usual or how it was possible (was the mail that she had to deliver available unusually early that day?).

From Gary Jubelin's first book I Catch Killers, 2020:
pp.292-293
"We bring the postwoman in for an interview in April 2017. She tells us her mail run to the street that day was unusually early, at around 8.45am, so she would have been gone long before William disappeared.
Although there's no CCTV on Benaroon Drive, we can follow her movements around Kendall on different cameras and see nothing to contradict her version of events. But [Officer in Charge of Strike Force Rosann Detective Senior Sergeant Craig Lambert] is insistent. He wants to search her financial and travel records, to find out the kind of mail she was delivering, what time she started work that day and how long it took her to complete her route.
It strikes me as a waste of time to be pursuing the postwoman and I tell the strike force not to do it."

From Where's William Tyrrell? podcast, episode 15: "Was it an accident?" YouTube
(15:49 minutes, transcript by me)
"The post woman delivered the mail around ten or ten thirty each morning, which is the time that William disappeared on September 12, 2014. The court heard on that particular morning she had delivered the mail earlier than she normally did [...]" [but it doesn't give a time]

From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, page 73, my notes in the square brackets:
..."a car was indeed heard (but not seen) around this time of that morning by [Mr and Mrs C]. By the time of day, the fact that no doors were heard to open, the turn it made and the sound of the engine, they took it to be the postal worker's vehicle. (In these parts, due to long distances, the postie drives a car, not a motorbike.) [Mrs C] said it was going quite fast. The public would never hear whether the police had ruled out the postie. Presumably, it would be simple enough to check with the post office which driver (in which vehicle) was on duty that day. Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can't rule out the possibility that it was the postal worker [the Cs] heard.
[The Cs] heard that car but none of the other neighbours did. It seems possible then that vehicles can sometimes enter and leave Benaroon Drive without being seen or heard."

From posts by a member of another forum who attended the inquest when Mr and Mrs C gave evidence:

• Mr and Mrs C had driven to North Haven that morning for their regular daily walk and returned home about 9:30 to 9:35 am (police were able to work out the time because Mr and Mrs C had visited a butcher's shop on the way home and used a loyalty card somewhere)
• Mr C thought they heard the car about 10 minutes after returning home (so about 9:40 to 9:45 am)
• Mrs C thought it was about 40 minutes after returning home (about 10:10 to 10:15 am)

 

[stormbird]

I think it was afternoon she rang him. Yes. I don't read too much into FGM doing that. It's that age group....courtesy to respond to missed calls despite whatever's happening in their lives.

What I did find interesting was the way in which the employee from Aged care made the report to police about RP. if I recall correctly they said she had notified a supervisor who didn't report but then had an exchange with another employee. who had told her the police were seeking to get a confession from RP and it was then she made her report. Ie it occurred after the police had already tried to get a confession..I'll try and find the report again where I read that.

If that's true that means they were independently on to RP and FA separately from the deathbed confession.

Angry Red Bull, this might be the report you're thinking of? It mentioned a few of the things you're talking about:

Daily Mail, 18 March 2020

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Angry Red Bull, this might be the report you're thinking of? It mentioned a few of the things you're talking about:

Daily Mail, 18 March 2020

Not specifically the one but covers the territory. Were police notified earlier about her first report OR did they independently chase the confession? Unclear on that report.

Thx appreciated

 

[31550]

Not specifically the one but covers the territory. Were police notified earlier about her first report OR did they independently chase the confession? Unclear on that report.

Thx appreciated

The first I heard of the Ray Porter 'deathbed confession' and the Frank Abbott connection was in the 2-part Ch7 doco "The Disappearance of William Tyrrell" with Caroline Overington.

It is no longer available on Seven Plus. I thought it may have been withdrawn due to legal action, but it seems to still be available via Sky The Disappearance of William Tyrrell
although only to paid subscribers.

Is anyone able to confirm whether the second episode is still available? I have a copy of the first episode only.

It's interesting that certain articles, books and videos have been suppressed while others remain available. Might suggest legal action in the background relating to specific parties?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

It's pretty common for perps to admit to knowledge or even guilt regarding a crime. FA telling everyone he knows where WT body is is not unexpected. Police then target his known associate RP trying to bring pressure to advise what he knows and it brings about a deathbed confession. Then the neighbour to FA gave testimony at inquest that she heard a boys scream in bushland surrounding FA van the very next day to disappearance. So that means we have multiple tiers of corroboration. But the 300klm trip can't be substantiated. CCTV suggests didn't occur. Indeed I don't think it likely. If it happened it must have happened on the day of abduction (FA didn't have his own car to my knowledge) and it's been confirmed that RP was in dialysis that day from 9 to 3. The story is he and WT were picked up by RP from a shed behind a school which has to occur if it did on the day

What do I think? I believe that RP believes that FA was involved and had used HIS car. He doesn't want FA pinning it on him after his death and he perhaps knows there may be DNA evidence in his car so making up the trip then explains that DNA if it's forensically examined after his death. Was that car ever forensically examined?

I find it interesting that GO when questioned at inquest has said that FA had pointed to an area of land that had "the smell of death" but when questioned about where he was on the day of the disappearance (which should have been easier to answer) he says he thought he was at community centre but couldn't remember because his memory was impaired by Parkinson's. The very nature of bookmarks to memory is that when something unusual happens such as a child's disappearance (and you are on periphery to that with deck call to FGM) you are more likely to remember not less likely. The response is evasive. Is it so because of Parkinson's impairment? I don't know.....but possible.