Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Kurve]

31550, do you know FF didn't take a trailer in the morning? (If so, how?)

There would have been plenty of room to unhitch and park a trailer at FGM's and no need to hide it. The photos I've seen from the first week at FGM's don't show the entire area around the carport or driveways or anywhere else, but if you know of some that do then please show them. IMO most of the house and block was either not photographed or not shown to us the public. If there was a trailer, or trail bike, or anything else parked at FGM's they might have been in full view of everybody who was there - not hidden, not secret, just given no publicity via news reports or photos and inquest testimony.

I don't care about theories, I want to know what the facts are. Did they take a trailer or didn't they? It seems that nobody here knows.

Can we get an idea from the McDonalds CCTV? I think there was an exterior shot.

 

[31550]

31550, do you know FF didn't take a trailer in the morning? (If so, how?)

There would have been plenty of room to unhitch and park a trailer at FGM's and no need to hide it. The photos I've seen from the first week at FGM's don't show the entire area around the carport or driveways or anywhere else, but if you know of some that do then please show them. IMO most of the house and block was either not photographed or not shown to us the public. If there was a trailer, or trail bike, or anything else parked at FGM's they might have been in full view of everybody who was there - not hidden, not secret, just given no publicity via news reports or photos and inquest testimony.

I don't care about theories, I want to know what the facts are. Did they take a trailer or didn't they? It seems that nobody here knows.

Sorry I don't know for a fact whether FF took a trailer or not. The only reference to a trailer was FM's statement that they 'parked in the trailer section' at Heatherbrae McDonalds. This in itself does not prove anything.
I am interested in the theory that he did take a trailer, and what bearing this may have on the case.
As I said earlier, I think it's unlikely he took a trailer because I have never heard mention of it in any police, media or witness report and there is no trailer or dirt bike visible in any of the photographs or video footage (e.g. walkthroughs) that I have seen. No trailer was discussed in public hearings at the coronial inquest. No trailer is mentioned in either Overington or Chumley's books.
But it's not impossible I suppose.

 

[Awakening]

I like the trailer theory. Planned to off him from the start, used the trailer to dispose of him.

 

[NRL Fan]

This is all I could find about his alibi:

Daily Telegraph, 2 Jan 2016, paywalled: "He said he was living in Dunbogan when William went missing and said he did not know anybody connected to the case."

Daily Telegraph, 13 Jan 2016, paywalled: "The alibi provided to police when questioned over William's suspected abduction was that he was living in Dunbogan on the day the child vanished without a trace in September 2014."

Gary Jubelin's I Catch Killers, p.264:
"There are dozens of known child offenders in the area...
there's Dunbogan, where one abuser says he was on the day that William disappeared.
This offender, a retired priest,..."

Caroline Overington's Missing William Tyrrell, p.167:
"[DN] said he was in Dunbogan when William disappeared. No evidence could be found to link him to the crime, and so detectives moved to the next names on the list."

Living in Dunbogan and/or in Dunbogan that day. No details about what he claimed to have been doing or specifically where, and nothing about how or whether police checked his story. The Daily Telegraph articles say that he was living in Kendall in May 2015, which is when police searched his house.

DN does seem to fit the profile, but why would he move from Dunbogan (20 minutes drive away) to within walking distance of the FM's house, in the months following the disappearance, if he was guilty ?.

 

[stormbird]

DN does seem to fit the profile, but why would he move from Dunbogan (20 minutes drive away) to within walking distance of the FM's house, in the months following the disappearance, if he was guilty ?.

Who knows why he did anything? It would be interesting to know when he moved and where and why, and if there could have been a reason for him to go to Benaroon Drive or Ellendale Crescent in September 2014.

 

[BFew]

There were 2 different matters before the court. The matter that was originally listed to be heard on 24th March 2023, which is now removed from the NSW Online Registry, was a 2019 Case number.

View attachment 1637071

Hasta la vista baby.

 

[stormbird]

There's now a second date shown on the NSW Online Registry for the "directions (notice of appeal)" in Appeal: State of New South Wales v William Harrie Spedding, case number 2022/00368706. The 24 May date (next Wednesday) is still there but now there's also 07 June.

The two-day appeal hearing is supposed to start on 13 June 2023, according to an AAP/9 News article 22 March 2023.

But if there's now going to be a directions thing on 07 June - less than a week before the start of the appeal hearing - that's making me wonder whether the appeal hearing has been delayed.

Does anybody know what's going on? The court list only shows dates up to Friday 09 June at the moment, so it doesn't yet show whether the 13 June start date is still listed.

 

[31550]

There's now a second date shown on the NSW Online Registry for the "directions (notice of appeal)" in Appeal: State of New South Wales v William Harrie Spedding, case number 2022/00368706. The 24 May date (next Wednesday) is still there but now there's also 07 June.

The two-day appeal hearing is supposed to start on 13 June 2023, according to an AAP/9 News article 22 March 2023.

But if there's now going to be a directions thing on 07 June - less than a week before the start of the appeal hearing - that's making me wonder whether the appeal hearing has been delayed.

Does anybody know what's going on? The court list only shows dates up to Friday 09 June at the moment, so it doesn't yet show whether the 13 June start date is still listed.

My guess is a further directions hearing is scheduled to deal with additional matters to those being heard on 24 May. Maybe there has been further mediation, or maybe one party has failed to comply with previous orders. They will want this heard and sorted before the actual appeal hearing, otherwise, yes, the appeal hearing may have to be delayed. The actual matter may not have been on the agenda for 24 May, so a 'further directions' hearing may be appropriate.

 

[31550]

One exclusion to rules relating to hearsay evidence is deathbed confessions. It's no longer classified as hearsay. What RP said to the nurse would fit within this ambit and be available as evidence not hearsay. But the evidence lacks veracity because the 300klm trip hasn't been proven. I still think there may be shreds of truth to what RP has said about FA involvement. Multiple corroboration.

• deathbed confessions RP
• child scream heard in bushland around FA van
• RP car can match what FM saw parked that morning
• FA reference to GO about smell of death and bragging he knows location of WT body

None are conclusive but all are corroborations of sorts.

Chumley said RP picked FA and WT up from shed and drove them 300klm. RP was having dialysis which usually done 3 times a week so a 300 klm trip is unlikely. That's why Chumley has gone cold imo. They looked closely at FA and couldn't get evidence. Did they find evidence proving innocence. Don't know. if they have it hasn't been released.

I have been waiting to respond to this because I recall it being covered in the Ch7 2-Part Doco which has been removed from circulation. I now have been able to view the second part where this was covered. Overington says Porter's car was seen on the Saturday (one day after William vanished) heading North, and returning the next day (Sunday). She also says RP was discharged from hospital at 3pm on the Friday. Maybe if he had dialysis 3 times a week, it was Monday/Wednesday/Friday? This would allow him to have made the alleged trip.
The suggestion in the doco from CO and "Steve" is that FA possibly took RPs car after dropping him at hospital, drove to FGM house in relation to the decking job via GO, opportunistically snatched William, concealed him somewhere until the next day, then drove in RP's car 300km North (to Casino?) to dispose of the body on Saturday, returning on Sunday.

What concerns me is that with FA serving a 17-year sentence, wouldn't police / prosecution have offered him some sort of 'deal' to reduce his sentence if he co-operated with them to help find William's body? This suggests FA is either not involved, or is pure evil, or both.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I have been waiting to respond to this because I recall it being covered in the Ch7 2-Part Doco which has been removed from circulation. I now have been able to view the second part where this was covered. Overington says Porter's car was seen on the Saturday (one day after William vanished) heading North, and returning the next day (Sunday). She also says RP was discharged from hospital at 3pm on the Friday. Maybe if he had dialysis 3 times a week, it was Monday/Wednesday/Friday? This would allow him to have made the alleged trip.
The suggestion in the doco from CO and "Steve" is that FA possibly took RPs car after dropping him at hospital, drove to FGM house in relation to the decking job via GO, opportunistically snatched William, concealed him somewhere until the next day, then drove in RP's car 300km North (to Casino?) to dispose of the body on Saturday, returning on Sunday.

What concerns me is that with FA serving a 17-year sentence, wouldn't police / prosecution have offered him some sort of 'deal' to reduce his sentence if he co-operated with them to help find William's body? This suggests FA is either not involved, or is pure evil, or both.

They sought to get evidence on him to press charges (taped phone calls with priest). Interestingly the nurse that came forward with the deathbed confession RP did so because they were pressuring him ALREADY (independently of the nurse). They therefore had FA in their crosshairs at that point.

I'll see if I can find the article I read. Seem to recall it said that police had attempted to determine movements of the car and weren't able to verify it had travelled long trip north only localized travel. Highways now have cameras at multiple points along the way. I'd be surprised if he made that trip but there wasn't CCTV of it. They were interested enough to get CCTV of it locally and did. Were there roadblocks?

It's proven that RP visited hospital in the Friday from 9 to 3 for dialysis. it was the Saturday I recall that the next door neighbour to FA van heard the boy scream in bushland around his van. So if connected he perhaps kept him at his van. That's contrary to the story but consistent with what we now know. Did they travel north 300klm? Don't know. If they did it was risky move especially to involve an innocent RP unless he wasn't innocent.

Why would RP lie about the trip? I think RP knew or suspected FA but also knew FA would implicate him once he was dead. I therefore think he made the confession and WT being in the car so that it would explain DNA in that car and exonerate him. Have they tested for DNA?. Don't know.

FA has steadfastly denied involvement. But Owens testimony at inquest where he couldn't remember where he was that day is shaky in my opinion. I suspect FA constantly telling people to check GO property for the body was his way of threatening GO not to divulge the schedule for deck work. I think FA was there and to do the deck, dismantling on the Friday. Easy to determine whether an order was placed for delivery wood Monday. Then cancelled.

I can't say why they didn't negotiate with FA. Perhaps he was, absent a body, pretty confident they didn't have the evidence.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

What police know about dying man's William Tyrrell confession

Extraordinary documents have revealed how police are investigating a dying man's startling confession about Australia's most famous missing child, William Tyrrell.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This tells us CCTV of RP car movements in the few days after the abduction. Kew and Port Macquarie.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The most alarming thing for me is GO inability to tell inquest where he was that day. I know he's suffering from Parkinson's which does impact memory. But given Spedding was targeted quickly I'm assuming that GOs call at 9.05 am brought scrutiny and questioning too. What did he tell them? Did he hide the fact he had FA working for him? Police would have been all over it if he had told them that and that he had scheduled to do deck work. Who forgets what they were doing when you are contracted to do deck work on the premises where a boy was abducted?

The cars (assuming they existed) with people inside early that morning is very much like labourers waiting on site. They would dismantle first and then take delivery of wood after that stage was done

 

[31550]

Here is a transcript of part of Caroline Overington's interview with "Steve" concerning Frank Abbott.

CO: Tell me about any conversations you’ve had with Frank Abbott about William Tyrrell.​

​

I’ve had plenty. I’ve asked him numerous times was he involved in it and he said no.​

​

CO: Why have you asked him that?​

​

For quite a while, about three months he was always saying, “They know where I was on the Thursday, the Thursday. I got my pension out on the Thursday”. And after hearing that for so long, I thought I’d look up the day that he went missing, and it was the Friday.​

​

CO: It’s the Friday.​

​

And I confronted him over this over the phone and he said “Maybe the police have got their dates wrong.” … Most people in this community would know where they were on that Friday.​

​

CO: And he hasn’t been able to tell you where he was?​

​

No. He’s got no movement on his mobile phone for three days.​

​

CO: Around that time?​

​

Exactly at that time.​

​

…​

​

Police turned up at my place and introduced themself and wanted some background regarding Frank Abbott, and I said “What’s it regarding?”, and they said “William Tyrrell.” They spoke to me and they told me he’s the number one prime suspect in their investigation now.​

​

CO: How did you react to that?​

​

I was shocked.​

​

…​

​

Frank has told me on numerous times that he’s never ever been to that street. But however he told me explicit exits and entrances. I was unaware until I actually went out there and had a look after I spoke to him, and that really sent chills up me. How could someone know that, if they’ve said to me, and said to the police, they’ve never been in that street?​

​

CO: He told you that he’d never been in Benaroon Drive, is my understanding?​

​

That’s correct.​

​

CO: Did you say “I don’t believe you!”?​

​

Yes​

​

…​

​

He’s blatantly told the detectives that he can’t drive. Doesn’t know how to drive. All that sort of stuff and that’s absolute rubbish. Also he mentioned to me that there’s a camera out at Kendall. And he said to me, “Well, if I went that way, they’d have me on camera.” I didn’t even know there was a camera there. But he did. So there’s a lot of inconsistencies there with his story.​

​

It's interesting that police would say Abbott was their prime suspect at this time (or even at any time). Perhaps 'Steve' made that part up? But why would he? Was 'Steve' ever a POI himself? The inquest was shut down soon after all this stuff came to light, and since then the focus has shifted from FA et al to the fosters.

Was Rosann contemplating 'targeting' FA the same way Spedding and Savage were targeted? And did they maybe get gun-shy after the legal actions brought against NSW Police by both Spedding and Savage?

 

[Liandra]

The most alarming thing for me is GO inability to tell inquest where he was that day. I know he's suffering from Parkinson's which does impact memory. But given Spedding was targeted quickly I'm assuming that GOs call at 9.05 am brought scrutiny and questioning too. What did he tell them? Did he hide the fact he had FA working for him? Police would have been all over it if he had told them that and that he had scheduled to do deck work. Who forgets what they were doing when you are contracted to do deck work on the premises where a boy was abducted?

The cars (assuming they existed) with people inside early that morning is very much like labourers waiting on site. They would dismantle first and then take delivery of wood after that stage was done

There is also this which would have put him on the radar
Surely there would be a record of his payment somewhere, which would prove whether GO's recollection was accurate or not.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Didn't they question him about his testimony that he was there, because they had no one to confirm he was.

In any event payment of a bill takes 5 mins

 

[Angry Red Bull]

So absolutely no alibi for FA and no idea where GO was on the day

 

[31550]

There is also this which would have put him on the radar
Surely there would be a record of his payment somewhere, which would prove whether GO's recollection was accurate or not.

They are unlikely to get anything further from GO. But he should have been 'on the radar' from Day One given the phone call (from his phone) to the FGM house in the morning, and also the fact that FGM in her walkthrough talks about phoning him and speaking to him herself on the Friday afternoon, at which stage she says he indicated he was 'aware of the situation'. GO was scheduled to visit the house on the following Tuesday to fix the deck. Why he was not considered a prime suspect, yet Spedding WAS, even though Spedding had an alibi and GO seemingly didn't, is totally beyond me.
It is clear that the original SFR had 'tunnel vision' when it came to POIs.

 

[Lady O]

They are unlikely to get anything further from GO. But he should have been 'on the radar' from Day One given the phone call (from his phone) to the FGM house in the morning, and also the fact that FGM in her walkthrough talks about phoning him and speaking to him herself on the Friday afternoon, at which stage she says he indicated he was 'aware of the situation'. GO was scheduled to visit the house on the following Tuesday to fix the deck. Why he was not considered a prime suspect, yet Spedding WAS, even though Spedding had an alibi and GO seemingly didn't, is totally beyond me.
It is clear that the original SFR had 'tunnel vision' when it came to POIs.

I'm thinking it was something to do with his former brother-in-law and previous accusations against him.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

They are unlikely to get anything further from GO. But he should have been 'on the radar' from Day One given the phone call (from his phone) to the FGM house in the morning, and also the fact that FGM in her walkthrough talks about phoning him and speaking to him herself on the Friday afternoon, at which stage she says he indicated he was 'aware of the situation'. GO was scheduled to visit the house on the following Tuesday to fix the deck. Why he was not considered a prime suspect, yet Spedding WAS, even though Spedding had an alibi and GO seemingly didn't, is totally beyond me.
It is clear that the original SFR had 'tunnel vision' when it came to POIs.

Thanks for that. I was unaware of the Tuesday schedule. My argument is that FA was unskilled labour so it's only sensible to get him to do laberor work.....ie dismantling. That could have been done without a decking specialist in advance of the more skilled work

 

[31550]

The most alarming thing for me is GO inability to tell inquest where he was that day. I know he's suffering from Parkinson's which does impact memory. But given Spedding was targeted quickly I'm assuming that GOs call at 9.05 am brought scrutiny and questioning too. What did he tell them? Did he hide the fact he had FA working for him? Police would have been all over it if he had told them that and that he had scheduled to do deck work. Who forgets what they were doing when you are contracted to do deck work on the premises where a boy was abducted?

The cars (assuming they existed) with people inside early that morning is very much like labourers waiting on site. They would dismantle first and then take delivery of wood after that stage was done

On the subject of the two cars, when exactly did the police release this information to the media? According to FM she 'remembered' seeing the cars when she was driving back from the airport after picking up her sister a few days after William vanished. But this information was not released to the public until much later. (I'm thinking late 2015, but not sure?).
Is it just possible that police (Jubelin?) 'encouraged' FM to remember the two cars - one with a description conveniently matching Ray Porter's car, the other conveniently matching a car associated with Abbot? This would have put a little bit of pressure on this group of people if they were being investigated.
This is not a million miles away from Jubelin's tactic of hiding a spiderman suit in the bush to entrap Paul Savage, or organising a media circus at Bill Spedding's house when he was arrested on historical, trumped-up child abuse charges.
Possible?

 

[31550]

Thanks for that. I was unaware of the Tuesday schedule. My argument is that FA was unskilled labour so it's only sensible to get him to do laberor work.....ie dismantling. That could have been done without a decking specialist in advance of the more skilled work

The Tuesday was according to FGM in her walkthrough. (She had possibly already told GO that her daughter was visiting that weekend). Maybe GO had talked about the job to FA, and FA, having RP's car at his disposal, decided to go there to check the job out, if not to actually commence work? Of course, if FA had anything to do with William's disappearance, he would probably have never mentioned this trip to GO.
The point is, that, in theory FA might have had both reason and opportunity to be in Benaroon Drive at that time.
Of course, no independent witness saw any cars or people in the street that day, so none of this can be proven.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

On the subject of the two cars, when exactly did the police release this information to the media? According to FM she 'remembered' seeing the cars when she was driving back from the airport after picking up her sister a few days after William vanished. But this information was not released to the public until much later. (I'm thinking late 2015, but not sure?).
Is it just possible that police (Jubelin?) 'encouraged' FM to remember the two cars - one with a description conveniently matching Ray Porter's car, the other conveniently matching a car associated with Abbot? This would have put a little bit of pressure on this group of people if they were being investigated.
This is not a million miles away from Jubelin's tactic of hiding a spiderman suit in the bush to entrap Paul Savage, or organising a media circus at Bill Spedding's house when he was arrested on historical, trumped-up child abuse charges.
Possible?

At this stage nothing is outside the realm of possibility.

The Tuesday was according to FGM in her walkthrough. (She had possibly already told GO that her daughter was visiting that weekend). Maybe GO had talked about the job to FA, and FA, having RP's car at his disposal, decided to go there to check the job out, if not to actually commence work? Of course, if FA had anything to do with William's disappearance, he would probably have never mentioned this trip to GO.
The point is, that, in theory FA might have had both reason and opportunity to be in Benaroon Drive at that time.
Of course, no independent witness saw any cars or people in the street that day, so none of this can be proven.

That Tuesday schedule fits neatly with what I'd thought. When you have unskilled labour employed it becomes more difficult to fill their time. So you tend to use them to take time pressure off the skilled labour like dismantling a deck in advance of rebuilding the new deck. It would take at least a day to do perhaps longer. So Friday may have been intended to do that work.....(why GO rang in the am)

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I read somewhere where Chumley has said that in her opinion there were 3 involved and she states that ALL gave testimony at inquest and those 3 don't include Savage nor Spedding. She didn't want to name them obviously. I can easily work out two but scratching my head for the third.

 

[31550]

I read somewhere where Chumley has said that in her opinion there were 3 involved and she states that ALL gave testimony at inquest and those 3 don't include Savage nor Spedding. She didn't want to name them obviously. I can easily work out two but scratching my head for the third.

Chumley has since distanced herself from that hypothesis, although her reasons for doing so have not been shared.

 

[stormbird]

The court lists at the NSW Online Registry now show dates up to 14 June 2023. The hearing for Appeal: State of New South Wales v William Harrie Spedding (case number 2022/00368706) can be seen on 13 and 14 June, which answers my question back in post #8,111 about whether the hearing might have been delayed because of the second directions hearing on 07 June.

The first directions hearing is still listed for today - it's number 12 on the list.