Dixon,Danger or Treloar?

[NT.Thunder]

There's only one thing to say about Dixon "I didn't know they stacked sh%t that high". He's injury prone and is big but inconsistent. We already have Reid and Cloke for those two roles.

Look at Hawthorn (who lost Buddy!) but have Roughhead then a spread of goalkickers, with Treloar in we get a goalkicking mid who can play for a decade. Throw Swanny forward for a few seasons (ala Leigh Matthews) keep developing our list (Moore, The Big Show etc) and we'll have enough goalkickers to win matches.

Forget the Dixon name - my point is that a quality KPF adds more value to our team than 'another' quality midfielder. When you look at the last few weeks what has all the bitching been about on here? It hasn't been about our midfielders it's been all about our KPP either forward or back. 90% of discussion this year has been about the Whites, Frosts, Reid's, Witts and Clokes of the team but all of a sudden when someone dangles a shiny new midfielder in front of our face we forget about these problems.

I'd rather add a KPF who can kick 60+ goals a year than a shiny new mid who can kick it on to the chest of a White or Cloke 60 times a year for them to drop it or kick a return of 15 goals a season.

Sometimes you need a clunky old diesel to go places where that shiny new BMW won't go and who cares how you look in it!

 

[Old Spice]

Forget the Dixon name - my point is that a quality KPF adds more value to our team than 'another' quality midfielder. When you look at the last few weeks what has all the bitching been about on here? It hasn't been about our midfielders it's been all about our KPP either forward or back. 90% of discussion this year has been about the Whites, Frosts, Reid's, Witts and Clokes of the team but all of a sudden when someone dangles a shiny new midfielder in front of our face we forget about these problems.

I'd rather add a KPF who can kick 60+ goals a year than a shiny new mid who can kick it on to the chest of a White or Cloke 60 times a year for them to drop it or kick a return of 15 goals a season.

Sometimes you need a clunky old diesel to go places where that shiny new BMW won't go and who cares how you look in it!

I'm not sure about our problems down forward. I still think we have some very potent weapons there if we can get them gelling. Cloke, and White who provides ruck chop outs. Fasolo, Elliot and Swan are strong marks and converters. We have a rash of medium/forward opportunists. Moore replaces White.

Look at Geelong circa 2007-2011. Some very ordinary talls in Mooney, N Ablett, Podsiadly and Hawkins. Hawthorn post Franklin have done fine with Roughead and a rash of medium-smalls in the forward line. Sydney by comparison have been ordinary with Tippett and Franklin.

Bottle-up 2/3rds of the ground with quality and you endlessly assault the forward 50 and mix up the targets in the forward 50.

If we get a fwd/def tall swing to replace Cloke we'll be right.

 

[NT.Thunder]

I'm not sure about our problems down forward. I still think we have some very potent weapons there if we can get them gelling. Cloke, and White who provides ruck chop outs. Fasolo, Elliot and Swan are strong marks and converters. We have a rash of medium/forward opportunists. Moore replaces White.

Look at Geelong circa 2007-2011. Some very ordinary talls in Mooney, N Ablett, Podsiadly and Hawkins. Hawthorn post Franklin have done fine with Roughead and a rash of medium-smalls in the forward line. Sydney by comparison have been ordinary with Tippett and Franklin.

Bottle-up 2/3rds of the ground with quality and you endlessly assault the forward 50 and mix up the targets in the forward 50.

So it's fair to say I can lock all the Jesse White threads LOL.

I think you're right if they're on song. But I worry we've seen Clokes best days. I mean, unless you have a power forward like Cloke that can kick goals up at the front end of the Coleman Medal leaderboard, or have a crumbing forward that can kick 50+ goals a season like a Eddie Betts/Chad Wingard type aren't we just treading water? Yes we've got the potential but we are not getting the results.

How far do you carry potential before you realise that this needs to be converted into talent and ultimately goals.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Forget the Dixon name - my point is that a quality KPF adds more value to our team than 'another' quality midfielder. When you look at the last few weeks what has all the bitching been about on here? It hasn't been about our midfielders it's been all about our KPP either forward or back. 90% of discussion this year has been about the Whites, Frosts, Reid's, Witts and Clokes of the team but all of a sudden when someone dangles a shiny new midfielder in front of our face we forget about these problems.

I'd rather add a KPF who can kick 60+ goals a year than a shiny new mid who can kick it on to the chest of a White or Cloke 60 times a year for them to drop it or kick a return of 15 goals a season.

Sometimes you need a clunky old diesel to go places where that shiny new BMW won't go and who cares how you look in it!

The problem with your logic is you are suggesting that key forwards are easy to go and get. There are really only a handful of gun KPF that have been around for 3-4 years and are consitently up there in goals and contested marks, and we already have one.

Dixon has not shown that his body can cope with AFL football, a bit like Mitch Clarke. They may very well have a 60 goal year sooner or later, but they are just as likely to be injured come September.

White is the stop gap for Moore, and he is doing fine. Witts and Grundy will be more important in the years to come wiht the sub disappearing and they will learn how to be KPF targets like Hale is at Hawthorn.

Before this year, I would argue that Treloar was the most talented, best performed 21 year old in the game. Now Shiel has gone past him. To me it looks like he is playing with the weight of the world on his shoulders, there isnt the same carefree attack from Treloar this year. I think whoever gets him next year will be laughing. He has all the tricks and he will be a top 5 player in the comp before he is done.

 

[tesselate_]

So it's fair to say I can lock all the Jesse White threads LOL.

I think you're right if they're on song. But I worry we've seen Clokes best days. I mean, unless you have a power forward like Cloke that can kick goals up at the front end of the Coleman Medal leaderboard, or have a crumbing forward that can kick 50+ goals a season like a Eddie Betts/Chad Wingard type aren't we just treading water? Yes we've got the potential but we are not getting the results.

How far do you carry potential before you realise that this needs to be converted into talent and ultimately goals.

We're ranked 3rd for average goals per game. We're top four for converting inside 50s to goals. What kind of results are you hoping for?

We're currently ranked 16th for centre clearance differentials. In 5 of our 6 losses, we've lost the midfield battle; when we were blown out by Adelaide and Geelong we were thrashed in the centre (8 Centre Clearances 15 and 8 to 16 respectively, quadruple our average differential). While I do agree that we need a long term KPF prospect, the midfield needs a buff in the short term for us to go the next level, in my view.

 

[Old Spice]

So it's fair to say I can lock all the Jesse White threads LOL.

I think you're right if they're on song. But I worry we've seen Clokes best days. I mean, unless you have a power forward like Cloke that can kick goals up at the front end of the Coleman Medal leaderboard, or have a crumbing forward that can kick 50+ goals a season like a Eddie Betts/Chad Wingard type aren't we just treading water? Yes we've got the potential but we are not getting the results.

How far do you carry potential before you realise that this needs to be converted into talent and ultimately goals.

I keep wavering NT and am thinking out loud, so don't lock me on this, but Geelong and Hawthorn have done smartly with some very threadbare KP forward lines. Cats with NAblett/Mooney or Podsiadly/Hawkins and Hawks with Jugghead/Gunston.

You'd say in that context maybe the mid/def lines are more important in winning the ball, repelling an assault and pressing forward with high quality entries into the fwd 50.

 

[NT.Thunder]

The problem with your logic is you are suggesting that key forwards are easy to go and get. There are really only a handful of gun KPF that have been around for 3-4 years and are consitently up there in goals and contested marks, and we already have one.

Dixon has not shown that his body can cope with AFL football, a bit like Mitch Clarke. They may very well have a 60 goal year sooner or later, but they are just as likely to be injured come September.

White is the stop gap for Moore, and he is doing fine. Witts and Grundy will be more important in the years to come wiht the sub disappearing and they will learn how to be KPF targets like Hale is at Hawthorn.

Before this year, I would argue that Treloar was the most talented, best performed 21 year old in the game. Now Shiel has gone past him. To me it looks like he is playing with the weight of the world on his shoulders, there isnt the same carefree attack from Treloar this year. I think whoever gets him next year will be laughing. He has all the tricks and he will be a top 5 player in the comp before he is done.

Like I said forget I mentioned Dixon.

You need to be willing to pay I admit that, I haven't seen enough of Moore in his junior days to comment, but I still think he's a few years away from producing his best. I know people say KPF take a long time to develop but someone forgot to tell McCarty, Bruce, Cameron, Hogan and Daniher this. We are pinning all our hopes on Cloke at least maintaining form but hopefully improving, White just filling that stop gap, Moore improving to AFL standard, Reid being injury free, Witts and Grundy holding a KPF slot. There's nothing to give me any great confidence that this will occur over the next few years.

If they're available I think we need to look at them and by available I mean as available as someone like Treloar apparently is.

 

[NT.Thunder]

We're ranked 3rd for average goals per game. We're top four for converting inside 50s to goals. What kind of results are you hoping for?

We're currently ranked 16th for centre clearance differentials. In 5 of our 6 losses, we've lost the midfield battle; when we were blown out by Adelaide and Geelong we were thrashed in the centre (8 Centre Clearances 15 and 8 to 16 respectively, quadruple our average differential). While I do agree that we need a long term KPF prospect, the midfield needs a buff in the short term for us to go the next level, in my view.

Put like that I agree. Although I'd like to see these numbers from the last 4 weeks or at seasons end noting that teams we have played to date. Last week we won clearances 58 to 48 but marks inside 50 we lost 13 to 5. Against Richmond we also won clearances 40 to 35 and still lost. Our rucks have a lot of work to do. I wouldn't expect this weekend to be much difference regarding clearance numbers against NN but I won't be blaming our midfielders. Like Hawthorn did on the weekend, our midfielders need to play tight on the opposition around the ruck contest and make it a 50/50 ball. We just don't have the ruckman that can feed the ball like some teams. Play to our weakness. If we give WCE mids any room around the ball they will kill us out of the middle.

I keep wavering NT and am thinking out loud, so don't lock me on this, but Geelong and Hawthorn have done smartly with some very threadbare KP forward lines. Cats with NAblett/Mooney or Podsiadly/Hawkins and Hawks with Jugghead/Gunston.

You'd say in that context maybe the mid/def lines are more important in winning the ball, repelling an assault and pressing forward with high quality entries into the fwd 50.

I feel the same. I think it's because the key thing that stands out in our last few losses against opposition teams is the failure to convert from our KPF in crucial times of the game. Yes clearances were a problem and so have been our small forwards like Elliot and Fasolo but I think it must be the whipping boy mentality that constantly sees me wanting to secure a quality KPF. It hurts watching Hogan, Bruce, Cameron and McCarthy running around.

 

[Old Spice]

I feel the same. I think it's because the key thing that stands out in our last few losses against opposition teams is the failure to convert from our KPF in crucial times of the game. Yes clearances were a problem and so have been our small forwards like Elliot and Fasolo but I think it must be the whipping boy mentality that constantly sees me wanting to secure a quality KPF. It hurts watching Hogan, Bruce, Cameron and McCarthy running around.

White is actually a very good converter b4 goal.

 

[NT.Thunder]

White is actually a very good converter b4 goal.

Yeah once again I think I'm blinded by a couple of crucial goals during recent losses. Something actually I've been supportive or more protective of him on this board at times.

OK - happy to proceed with Treloar, I'll have the Contract drafted this evening if you like

 

[Old Spice]

Yeah once again I think I'm blinded by a couple of crucial goals during recent losses. Something actually I've been supportive or more protective of him on this board at times.

OK - happy to proceed with Treloar, I'll have the Contract drafted this evening if you like

I don't have any firm opinion one way or the other on a mid or KPF.

The alternate view is that we have enough mid/def depth and lack a KPF replacement. We're in a strong position. Send the CAT team.

 

[ThePhantom777]

We're ranked 3rd for average goals per game. We're top four for converting inside 50s to goals. What kind of results are you hoping for?

We're currently ranked 16th for centre clearance differentials. In 5 of our 6 losses, we've lost the midfield battle; when we were blown out by Adelaide and Geelong we were thrashed in the centre (8 Centre Clearances 15 and 8 to 16 respectively, quadruple our average differential). While I do agree that we need a long term KPF prospect, the midfield needs a buff in the short term for us to go the next level, in my view.

Agree. Port spanked us in the middle in that first quarter on Thursday night. We need a mid who can hurt the opposition in a different way (Pendles is silk, Adams/Greenwood the grunt). Treloar has a high Disposal Efficiency and is a jet (He's Danger 2.0).

 

[NT.Thunder]

Agree. Port spanked us in the middle in that first quarter on Thursday night. We need a mid who can hurt the opposition in a different way (Pendles is silk, Adams/Greenwood the grunt). Treloar has a high Disposal Efficiency and is a jet (He's Danger 2.0).

IMO we were spanked in the middle in that first quarter because Pandles amongst others, wern't on their game from the start. We actually were on top of PA around the stoppages come full time - just not on the score board.

 

[boxy99]

People might be getting there hopes up to early

 

[Ketchup]

People might be getting there hopes up to early

Tom Browne generally seems on the money with most things, not sure of his trade record but.

IF true, id be quite disappointed if we've been into him for two years like has been rumored being the front runner two weeks ago, and 3 weeks after Shiel has resigned they have already over taken us. It would be another case of missing out on a big name, can just add it to the long list. Another case of arguably the most attractive club in the land for "some reason" not being able to land the target.

 

[boxy99]

Tom Browne generally seems on the money with most things, not sure of his trade record but.

IF true, id be quite disappointed if we've been into him for two years like has been rumored being the front runner two weeks ago, and 3 weeks after Shiel has resigned they have already over taken us. It would be another case of missing out on a big name, can just add it to the long list. Another case of arguably the most attractive club in the land for "some reason" not being able to land the target.

Yep get linked to everyone get know one seems to be the way it goes

 

[TradeDraft]

People might be getting there hopes up to early

So have we With-Draw our Offer?

So could we maybe moved on to someone like Motlop that has been Talked about?

 

[Ketchup]

So have we With-Draw our Offer?

So could we maybe moved on to someone like Motlop that has been Talked about?

Id guess like normal we're most likely undercutting him because we're the "biggest club in the land" something Richmond can actually rival and like always we will be left with nothing.

It wouldn't surprise me if we were offering 600 and Richmond 750 and a longer contract.

It's seriously like going for Chelsea but trading like Tottenham for Collingwood. For anyone who follows the EPL will know what I mean.

 

[anshell]

It's funny how he didn't even mention us at all in that tweet^.It's hard to believe we could go from being a front runner for him,to not being mentioned at all.

 

[NT.Thunder]

So have we With-Draw our Offer?

So could we maybe moved on to someone like Motlop that has been Talked about?

Can we stop with the Motlop talk in case someone actually reads these posts and does something we'll regret for another 5 years.

Treloar and Motlop should not be mentioned in the same sentence let alone thread...darn, I've gone and done it myself

 

[Bay Pie]

Taylor Adams was a lock for Hawthorn.
Mitch Clarke was locked into us.
Lance Franklin was a monty for GWS.
James Frawley was a guarantee to go to Geelong.
Kurt Tippus to Brisbane.

Until the player nominates a team, it's all just speculation. The speculation is interesting though.

The year we got Jolly, the 1st it was leaked was about a week or so before trade week and it was a leaked by a poster here, slightly off the cuff. Nothing more was said of that until Jolly announced us as his team of choice, 1 day into trade week.

 

[danielnajdek]

It's funny how he didn't even mention us at all in that tweet^.It's hard to believe we could go from being a front runner for him,to not being mentioned at all.

What I was thinking.

By the way. **** off Richmond seriously just go away.

 

[TradeDraft]

Taylor Adams was a lock for Hawthorn.

I don’ Remember the Adam’s to Hawk talk? I remember him going to Geelong Talk

 

[TradeDraft]

Can we stop with the Motlop talk in case someone actually reads these posts and does something we'll regret for another 5 years.

Treloar and Motlop should not be mentioned in the same sentence let alone thread...darn, I've gone and done it myself

I am not saying they are in the Same Level.

We been Linked to Motlop so I just saying what May or May Not Happen

 

[Hagla]

Would you prefer Aish + Motlop or just Treloar? I can see positives for both, I think we lack a Motlop type player more than another pure mid, and Aish could still become an A grade mid over time. Treloar would give us an immediate A grader but I don't think we'd be able to get anyone else once we'd traded for him.