Do Geelong deserve to host every home game + home final at Kardinia Park?

[sprockets]

Why is your Adelaide oval record 40 per cent in the last 4 years?

No doubt because we don't play there 6.7 times a year. Nice defection.

 

[PhatBoy]

No doubt because we don't play there 6.7 times a year. Nice defection.

sorry what? You play there twice a year. What’s the big deal. We are supposed to beat other teams on their home patch Because we play there Soooooooo often it just removes home ground advantage does it?
We should just rock up and beat the teams who have the crowd support, the confirmation bias, the comfort level, we should just beat them at the same rate we win at our home ground should we?

its ok everyone the cats of 2007-11 WERENT the winningest team of all time over five years once you factor in the ground handicap - we should have been undefeated at home and away in that time because of all the advantages we get.

nothing short of 35 wins from 25 games will be seen as a success.

what the **** are you even arguing anymore?
Are you seriously having a shot at a team for having a 63 per cent winning record playing other teams on their home ground?
a win ratio that probably gets us into 6th on the ladder most seasons? THATS your criticism? That if we exclusively played MCG tenants at the MCG, we’d only be ranked 6th in the competition out of 18 teams, the other 17 of whom would have all the normal home and away concessions?

wow

 

[Noidnadroj]

What, don’t your clubs players have children? Don’t you have access to check books to sign free agents?


The funny thing about all
That is the only player your club would have looked twice at was Hawkins.

What’s so hard to understand ? By a quirk of the system Geelong got 3 x superstars. Then by a quirk of Danger’s family living in Mogg’s Creek you got the best player in the game.

There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just dumb luck and nothing to do with being any sort of abnormally well managed club.


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[PhatBoy]

What’s so hard to understand ? By a quirk of the system Geelong got 3 x superstars. Then by a quirk of Danger’s family living in Mogg’s Creek you got the best player in the game.

There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just dumb luck and nothing to do with being any sort of abnormally well managed club.


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Well for starters, we don’t HAVE to draft people. We don’t HAVE to develop them. We don’t HAVE to have players taking pay cuts or whatever to get a free agent in.
all clubs have these sorts of lures to get players so I don’t really see what you’re getting at. You could call anything dumb luck. Imagine if in a close game the year before you draft Dustin Martin, you actually scrape over the line and win, and someone else drafts him a year later because your ladder position actually improved.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Selfishly, I’m in favour of this. Then we may not have to play them down there. Every. Single. Year.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Well for starters, we don’t HAVE to draft people. We don’t HAVE to develop them. We don’t HAVE to have players taking pay cuts or whatever to get a free agent in.
all clubs have these sorts of lures to get players so I don’t really see what you’re getting at. You could call anything dumb luck. Imagine if in a close game the year before you draft Dustin Martin, you actually scrape over the line and win, and someone else drafts him a year later because your ladder position actually improved.

Players are drafted from educated selections. Some are right and some are wrong. Father-sons are not drafted via any form of educated analysis by the team that has rights over them. The ‘dumb luck’ is that 3 x father-sons turned into superstars in the same era. No tossing up between player A or player B, no watching junior games or looking at their testing results, no decision on whether to choose a mid or a
Defender etc….Geelong didn’t even need to match, they all came via a 3rd round pick or whatever the system was back then.

So of course it’s dumb luck that 3 x players they had no decision to make in recruiting turned into hall of famers in the same era.

I’m not saying you didn’t deserve them as I like the father-son rule …. just saying it was abnormally good fortune.




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[PhatBoy]

Players are drafted from educated selections. Some are right and some are wrong. Father-sons are not drafted via any form of educated analysis by the team that has rights over them. The ‘dumb luck’ is that 3 x father-sons turned into superstars in the same era. No tossing up between player A or player B, no watching junior games or looking at their testing results, no decision on whether to choose a mid or a
Defender etc….Geelong didn’t even need to match, they all came via a 3rd round pick or whatever the system was back then.

So of course it’s dumb luck that 3 x players they had no decision to make in recruiting turned into hall of famers in the same era.

I’m not saying you didn’t deserve them as I like the father-son rule …. just saying it was abnormally good fortune.




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What so when we draft someone as a father son, we just do it because we can, irrespective of the fact that we could use that pick on someone else or the player themselves is going to eat up a spot that someone else could occupy?

well right we can put literally everything down to luck. Every player Richmond has on their list, if they had have been picked by someone else, you wouldn’t have your three flags.

I don’t really know what luck we had in getting Gary Ablett considering he had nothing going for him aside from his name when we picked him anyway.

 

[sprockets]

sorry what? You play there twice a year. What’s the big deal. We are supposed to beat other teams on their home patch Because we play there Soooooooo often it just removes home ground advantage does it?
We should just rock up and beat the teams who have the crowd support, the confirmation bias, the comfort level, we should just beat them at the same rate we win at our home ground should we?

its ok everyone the cats of 2007-11 WERENT the winningest team of all time over five years once you factor in the ground handicap - we should have been undefeated at home and away in that time because of all the advantages we get.

nothing short of 35 wins from 25 games will be seen as a success.

what the fu** are you even arguing anymore?
Are you seriously having a shot at a team for having a 63 per cent winning record playing other teams on their home ground?
a win ratio that probably gets us into 6th on the ladder most seasons? THATS your criticism? That if we exclusively played MCG tenants at the MCG, we’d only be ranked 6th in the competition out of 18 teams, the other 17 of whom would have all the normal home and away concessions?

wow

Wow indeed, you're losing it Fatboy.

 

[BF Tiger]

What so when we draft someone as a father son, we just do it because we can, irrespective of the fact that we could use that pick on someone else or the player themselves is going to eat up a spot that someone else could occupy?

well right we can put literally everything down to luck. Every player Richmond has on their list, if they had have been picked by someone else, you wouldn’t have your three flags.

I don’t really know what luck we had in getting Gary Ablett considering he had nothing going for him aside from his name when we picked him anyway.

GAJ could have been blind and in a wheelchair and I think someone would've taken a punt on the Ablett name. But no-one else could.

 

[Sttew]

GAJ could have been blind and in a wheelchair and I think someone would've taken a punt on the Ablett name. But no-one else could.

The same father/ son rules applied to all teams. Geelong was not the sole beneficiary and had more duds than winners. Scarlett was the scrawny son of a good honest footballer. Geelong just happened to develop him into a gun. GAJ’s stats were unimpressive when he came to Geelong, and he could easily have ended up like his brother

 

[Wojcinski]

I can't believe this has devolved into "Geelong arent even a well run club because they got lucky with 3 good F/Ss"

Oh wait yes I can, it's BF and Tiger supporters are obsessed with us

 

[Spearman]

Players are drafted from educated selections. Some are right and some are wrong. Father-sons are not drafted via any form of educated analysis by the team that has rights over them. The ‘dumb luck’ is that 3 x father-sons turned into superstars in the same era. No tossing up between player A or player B, no watching junior games or looking at their testing results, no decision on whether to choose a mid or a
Defender etc….Geelong didn’t even need to match, they all came via a 3rd round pick or whatever the system was back then.
So of course it’s dumb luck that 3 x players they had no decision to make in recruiting turned into hall of famers in the same era.

I’m not saying you didn’t deserve them as I like the father-son rule …. just saying it was abnormally good fortune.

or just good genetics, so I guess you need to blame..........God?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Believing what, that we’ve picked the bones of the expansion clubs when we currently have a whole 1 player who’s been at one?
Meanwhile Richmond have how many?
and tell me. Mr Magic.

can you recall any of the reverse happening? You know, where an expansion club might, say for arguments sake, pick up an established, solid player from Geelong? Can you think of any examples of that happening at all? I know I’ve racked my brains and I can’t.

Yeah, the Cats have definitely not been a major beneficiary of the expansion clubs - Caddy, ZSmith and Cameron are the only decent ones who spring to mind - but compared to other clubs like Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood, neither have Richmond. Prestia and Lynch are our only two from the Suns, but we have fed back two regular senior players BEllis and Markov (I definitely wouldn't include CEllis, just like I wouldn't include GHS or Murdoch if I were a Cat fan) who are admittedly not of the quality of those we received, or obviously Gaz Jr, but we looked after the Suns pretty well to facilitate those trades.

The only two we've ever got from GWS are Miles and Townsend, who had both been delisted by the Giants anyway.

 

[Noidnadroj]

What so when we draft someone as a father son, we just do it because we can, irrespective of the fact that we could use that pick on someone else or the player themselves is going to eat up a spot that someone else could occupy?

well right we can put literally everything down to luck. Every player Richmond has on their list, if they had have been picked by someone else, you wouldn’t have your three flags.

I don’t really know what luck we had in getting Gary Ablett considering he had nothing going for him aside from his name when we picked him anyway.

Once again you miss the point. 3 x players who were thrust upon you that your club, recruiting staff, coach’s etc…. Had zero influence on recruiting turned into hall of famers. As you say, if Ablett’s name was Smith he would likely have gone to a different club. Same with Scarlett. Same with Hawkins. That’s luck, isn’t it? Choosing which players to draft involves scouts, recruiters, analysing draft combine results, watching thousands of hours of junior footage
Etc….

This little convo started with a Cat supporter boasting about Geelong being a dominant team despite no high end draft picks, whilst the Hawks and Tigers only became good due to getting access to high draft picks Geelong never has.

So a reminder that whilst the Tigers and Hawks benefited from the equalisation measures, the Cats got 3 x players even better when not at the bottom and not ‘entitled’ to high draft picks.

Nothing to do with not deserving them, just a reminder that whilst not having any high draft picks, that was more than offset by father-son luck that other dominant teams like Brisbane or
Essendon didn’t get when not entitled to high draft picks. Equalisation took care of the Lions, Bombers and Hawks…. and may well take care of the Tigers. Father-sons and Danger living in Moggs Creek have helped Geelong stave off that cyclical downturn no high draft picks is supposed to cause. (amongst other things like great development, recruiting, free agents and good coaching - Geelong is a great club with great coaching, I’m not disputing that)




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[PhatBoy]

Once again you miss the point. 3 x players who were thrust upon you that your club, recruiting staff, coach’s etc…. Had zero influence on recruiting turned into hall of famers. As you say, if Ablett’s name was Smith he would likely have gone to a different club. Same with Scarlett. Same with Hawkins. That’s luck, isn’t it? Choosing which players to draft involves scouts, recruiters, analysing draft combine results, watching thousands of hours of junior footage
Etc….

This little convo started with a Cat supporter boasting about Geelong being a dominant team despite no high end draft picks, whilst the Hawks and Tigers only became good due to getting access to high draft picks Geelong never has.

So a reminder that whilst the Tigers and Hawks benefited from the equalisation measures, the Cats got 3 x players even better when not at the bottom and not ‘entitled’ to high draft picks.

Nothing to do with not deserving them, just a reminder that whilst not having any high draft picks, that was more than offset by father-son luck that other dominant teams like Brisbane or
Essendon didn’t get when not entitled to high draft picks. Equalisation took care of the Lions, Bombers and Hawks…. and may well take care of the Tigers. Father-sons and Danger living in Moggs Creek have helped Geelong stave off that cyclical downturn no high draft picks is supposed to cause. (amongst other things like great development, recruiting, free agents and good coaching - Geelong is a great club with great coaching, I’m not disputing that)




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Everyone is subject to the father son rule. It didn’t involve any bottoming out, any low finishing, nothing. Every team has the same access to that rule regardless of what your club is doing on and off the field. Access to the top of the draft otherwise DOES get impacted by what you do off and on the field.

 

[DanA]

Your MCG record is good but it's well below your average for all grounds and in finals it's way less, even though you play more games there than ever before and acquired a ground with the same dimensions for training. The question is why.

1. Good teams play finals
2. It's harder to win away
3. Our "blockbuster" games (against opposition up and about) get moved to the MCG

There's no great mystery there that I can see.

 

[catstorm]

Once again you miss the point. 3 x players who were thrust upon you that your club, recruiting staff, coach’s etc…. Had zero influence on recruiting turned into hall of famers. As you say, if Ablett’s name was Smith he would likely have gone to a different club. Same with Scarlett. Same with Hawkins. That’s luck, isn’t it? Choosing which players to draft involves scouts, recruiters, analysing draft combine results, watching thousands of hours of junior footage
Etc….

This little convo started with a Cat supporter boasting about Geelong being a dominant team despite no high end draft picks, whilst the Hawks and Tigers only became good due to getting access to high draft picks Geelong never has.

So a reminder that whilst the Tigers and Hawks benefited from the equalisation measures, the Cats got 3 x players even better when not at the bottom and not ‘entitled’ to high draft picks.

Nothing to do with not deserving them, just a reminder that whilst not having any high draft picks, that was more than offset by father-son luck that other dominant teams like Brisbane or
Essendon didn’t get when not entitled to high draft picks. Equalisation took care of the Lions, Bombers and Hawks…. and may well take care of the Tigers. Father-sons and Danger living in Moggs Creek have helped Geelong stave off that cyclical downturn no high draft picks is supposed to cause. (amongst other things like great development, recruiting, free agents and good coaching - Geelong is a great club with great coaching, I’m not disputing that)




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How exactly have Scarlett (retired in 2012) and Ablett (gone from 2011-2017) stopped Geelongs cyclical down turn? or are you claiming Tom Hawkins all by himself held Geelong in the top 4 for the last decade?

Hawthorn also had a chance in Josh Kennedy to have a great Father-son but they threw him away. Furthermore they benefited from priority picks to allow them to select both Franklin and Roughead in the top 5 of the draft in 2004 and it could be argued Fremantle would not have traded that #1 priority pick for Croad if they didn't have an extra top 5 pick as a back up in 2001.

The Hawks brought in Tom Mitchell from Sydney and Wingard from Port but that didn't stop them going down so why did Danger stop us?

Don't even get me started on the advantages that Brisbane had on the rest of the league during there dominant run. But on a side note they did have a rather prominent Father-son or have you forgotten Jonathan Brown?

You said we were not entitled to those players players as if they were a hot commodity that were equivalent to high draft picks but only Hawkins was considered to be of any real value as a junior player before his draft. If Abletts name was Smith its not likely he would have been at a different club its more likely he wouldn't have been drafted at all. Nathan Ablett was the considered hot prospect and we all saw how that turned out.

 

[DanA]

Once again you miss the point. 3 x players who were thrust upon you that your club, recruiting staff, coach’s etc…. Had zero influence on recruiting turned into hall of famers. As you say, if Ablett’s name was Smith he would likely have gone to a different club. Same with Scarlett. Same with Hawkins. That’s luck, isn’t it? Choosing which players to draft involves scouts, recruiters, analysing draft combine results, watching thousands of hours of junior footage
Etc….

This little convo started with a Cat supporter boasting about Geelong being a dominant team despite no high end draft picks, whilst the Hawks and Tigers only became good due to getting access to high draft picks Geelong never has.

So a reminder that whilst the Tigers and Hawks benefited from the equalisation measures, the Cats got 3 x players even better when not at the bottom and not ‘entitled’ to high draft picks.

Nothing to do with not deserving them, just a reminder that whilst not having any high draft picks, that was more than offset by father-son luck that other dominant teams like Brisbane or
Essendon didn’t get when not entitled to high draft picks. Equalisation took care of the Lions, Bombers and Hawks…. and may well take care of the Tigers. Father-sons and Danger living in Moggs Creek have helped Geelong stave off that cyclical downturn no high draft picks is supposed to cause. (amongst other things like great development, recruiting, free agents and good coaching - Geelong is a great club with great coaching, I’m not disputing that)

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Luck or good development? Lets remember Geelong's list of All Australians over that period:
Backline: Scarlett, Milburn, Enright, Mackie, Harley, Lonergan, Egan, Taylor, Stewart, Blicavs
Midfield: Kelly, Corey, Ling, Bartel, Selwood, Ottens, Ablett, Dangerfield, Guthrie
Forward: Hawkins, Johnson, Chapman, Mooney, Cameron,

I get that we had some luck with Dangerfield and just recently Cameron but how many stars were made by Geelong rather than destined to be stars no matter where they went?

 

[PhatBoy]

Luck or good development? Lets remember Geelong's list of All Australians over that period:
Backline: Scarlett, Milburn, Enright, Mackie, Harley, Lonergan, Egan, Taylor, Stewart, Blicavs
Midfield: Kelly, Corey, Ling, Bartel, Selwood, Ottens, Ablett, Dangerfield, Guthrie
Forward: Hawkins, Johnson, Chapman, Mooney, Cameron,

I get that we had some luck with Dangerfield and just recently Cameron but how many stars were made by Geelong rather than destined to be stars no matter where they went?

Lonergan and Blicavs haven’t been AA. But your point stands

 

[DanA]

Lonergan and Blicavs haven’t been AA. But your point stands

Damn, was going off memory. Couldn't remember who out of Lonergan, Blicavs, Duncan, Mooney, Harley and Wojcinski who made AA team and who just made the All Australian 40 man squad.

 

[Rich01]

Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

has his say in the media asking the question why Geelong shouldn’t be playing their home game at GMHBA. Coaches are entitled to this. Not long ago Hardwick was labelled a sook for doing so, so I’d imagine Scott will get the same reaction from Cornes, Whately, King and co over the next couple of days.

 

[BF Tiger]

Chris Scott has his say in the media asking the question why Geelong shouldn’t be playing their home game at GMHBA. Coaches are entitled to this. Not long ago Hardwick was labelled a sook for doing so, so I’d imagine Scott will get the same reaction from Cornes, Whately, King and co over the next couple of days.

All we ask for is consistency.

 

[parano1a]

Shut up and play where the AFL tells you to play. Essendon have their home game at Metricon this round, but their coach hasn't spent all week whining about it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Chris Scott has his say in the media asking the question why Geelong shouldn’t be playing their home game at GMHBA. Coaches are entitled to this. Not long ago Hardwick was labelled a sook for doing so, so I’d imagine Scott will get the same reaction from Cornes, Whately, King and co over the next couple of days.

Scott could offer a working theory to solve the world’s energy issues and still be labelled a whinger

 

[PhatBoy]

Shut up and play where the AFL tells you to play. Essendon have their home game at Metricon this round, but their coach hasn't spent all week whining about it.

That must be incredibly taxing for a melbourne team to play in Melbourne on a ground they average 8.5 games a year at.
Can you please link me to the quotes where Chris Scott has spent all week whining about the venue thank you. All I can find is one solitary response to a question about the fixture