Does my son really want to work?

[scruffydog]

If you want to basically threaten to kick him out, without making it feel like you're actually kicking him out... do this:-

Tell him you're selling the house (or, if you're renting, simply moving out), and are going to get a smaller place for just you and your wife. That doesn't have to be an attack on him - it could just be because it'll save you some money and it'll be easier for you two to maintain. Tell him that it's not happening tomorrow, but it's going to happen very soon. He'll need to kick himself into gear otherwise he'll be on the streets.

Sure, that may well be a total lie, but he doesn't have to know that. You could always 'change your mind' once he's on the right track.

 

[Copeland]

My wifes not going to back me up then, **** her she can manage the situation, I'd rather move out.

 

[scruffydog]

Why exactly would you rather move out?

Your son is only 19. Is it really that big of a deal? Stop giving him things on a platter. Charge him board, or don't, but don't buy him the things he wants and needs and eventually he'll have to get a job. The bigger influence will be when his friends all have jobs and he feels like a real loser for being unemployed. The problem you have, he's only 19. He's fresh out of school. A lot of his friends will be at uni and I'd say few of them would have regular full time jobs.

I really don't understand why this is affecting you THAT much that you would consider moving out. He's his life - not yours.

 

[Swooop]

My wifes not going to back me up then, **** her she can manage the situation, I'd rather move out.

I feel for you Copeland.

It's really tough by the sound.

Having a kid like this puts an enormous strain on the marriage and lots do break up.

You each try and deal with it the best way you know how.

Trouble is, they're often different approaches and quite often the differences in the approaches can possibly end up being counter productive to the kid and incredibly divisive for the parents.

Emotions are running at an all time high, you're both stressed, often people's work performance can potentially suffer, which then adds secondary stresses coming in from disgruntled bosses, colleagues, subordinates etc etc.

When you're copping it at work and come home tired, then do the rounds of the kitchen at home with a difficult kid and upset wife, well it often can get too much for most people after months and months, and something often has to give.

I'm no-one to give advice - I've just been through all the above and after trying my best, had to walk away from both home and job for everyone's sake.

Hope you can pull it around prior to all that - but even worst case scenario and you can't - don't despair - it's all retrievable if it's meant to be.

How might you pull it around?

I'd suggest try a good psychologist if you can get the name of one to help you and your wife back onto the same page.

A trip away together, just the two of you, would be perfect, maybe somewhere special you went when you were dating, honeymoon revisit etc.

Can hear you saying, Yeah, but can't do that cos of a,b,c. But- it's your best chance of saving the marriage which is >>>>> a+b+c combined.

Failing that, get the both of you on SSRI's ( they're great for stress, anxiety and or depression) Not addictive and in general stuff all side effects ( in reality rather than theoretical for those who disagree here and want to look up the PI - prescribing information)

Lot of people do have very negative opinions here, that IMHO ( having had experience using them with literally thousands of people ) are either incorrect, uninformed or anecdotal. So many of these when finally convinced to try them, end up saying freakin hell, why didn't my guy put me on these.

Like any decision in this area, ask one self what are the potential gains, what are the potential losses.

The gains are that they may change your whole outlook and perspective and reduce counterproductive anxiety and stress and possible lowered mood / depressive symptoms, potentially helping you toward save the marriage, helping your kid, helping you at work if there's shit happening there as well. And help keeping you sane dealing with this stuff!

The losses are $25 for a months supply, possible side effects ( nausea rarely, plus you can't always get a shot away when you need to) they may not do much at all either way ( rare), ummm what else ...**** knows...

Now, let's weigh the two sides up. No contest as far as I'm concerned, but you need to make that call.

Anyhow mate, enough from me, however you go with this, I wish you all the best and just know you're a much admired part of the Pies BF family here, you got lots of mates here who care about you.

Good luck.

 

[Swooop]

PS Copeland, if you want to transfer this to a private convo very happy to.

But if public, you have the benefit of lots of others' opinion and support plus who knows, there may be other posters out there who may be interested, not sure.

Or of course a mixture of both.

The final option would be put me on ignore, then you won't have to read any of my drivel anymore!!

 

[Copeland]

Scruffy - Probably wanted to move out to escape and because I think my son will end up hating me. He pays $10 a week board and he's on the dole. His rego is due and I've told my wife if she pays it I'll be really pissed off. She gives him money to look for work(petrol) but I'm sus how much he does and have told her she's part of the problem. He's is popular and his mates shout him out occasionally, but that has decreased, which is what i hoped for.

Swoop I'll be in touch.

He has scored some work, which is on line. Meaning he'll be on his pc all the time. He has a mate who has employed him to give advice IT/game related and also sell servers. Not sure if we have turned a corner but we're peeping, fingers crossed.

 

[pies1958]

I just discovered this thread.
Here's my thoughts.
My son is 18 and sounds similar to this lad.
My boy has his sights set on one job and one job only. A job that requires five years of full-time study and very high marks.
He has the brains to do it but in VCE he slacked off and didn't get the marks so missed out on the course he wanted an ended up going into an arts degree. He's in first year now.
He stays up until 3 or 4 in the morning playing bloody online games and is starting to miss lectures and I can see him dropping out of this course.
It's really hard. I have tried subtle hints and gentle encouragement but I am worried.
Sometimes I want to whack him behind the ears and tell him to stop mucking around.
I've told his mother that if he drops out of this course we would help him find a course that will get him practical skills to get a job but then that is it. If that doesn't work out, he has to just get a job and fund his own dreams after that.
Being in Melbourne probably makes it easier to get a job so we're lucky in that way.
I think all kids are different and a little bit of encouragement goes a long way. I want to show him that I love him and support him. We do need to be careful but there also needs to be limits.

 

[Magpie Girl]

i'm fairly new to BF and although I've noticed this thread I've only just read it through. Thought maybe a woman's/mother's input might help.
Firstly Copeland, your despair and sense of helplessness is obvious and I feel for you, but as parents we make the mistake of taking everything personally. 'Where did I go wrong? What am I doing wrong?'

This is a phase in your son's life. It's not unusual for a lot of kids to struggle with the transition from school to work to adulthood. Too many leave school with no sense of identity, and rather than just go to Uni or Tafe and do any old course I believe kids, especially boys, are best taking a gap year, and preferably backpacking in Europe. They quickly learn there is a great big world out there and they grow up fast, having to decide where they will eat and sleep each day, manage their money and make 101 other decisions about things they have always taken for granted.
This was something both of my children did and the benefits were enormous. (They also had to earn the money for the trip but sometimes it's worth the parents helping out)

Have you thought of shifting your focus with him? Try talking about everything except a job.
Step back and get a different perspective.
He probably expects now that every time you approach him it will be to ask if he has looked for a job.
You can't always be his friend but you do want to preserve an honest, respectful and fruitful relationship.

I'd also suggest that it's your perception that it's not good for him to be on the computer all the time, however he enjoys it and if he can combine work with it, then all the better. Many people do this very successfully. Maybe you are more of an outdoors person and therefore don't understand this.

I understand the conflict between you and your wife. These situations put enormous pressure on the best relationships, however women tend to take the softer more nurturing approach and also try to balance the situation.
One parent plays 'good cop' and the other 'bad cop'

It's so important at the moment to look after yourself. Try to get yourself into a better 'feel good' state, and that will flow on to all those close to you.

Kids are resilient and he's a good young man - just a bit rudderless at the moment.
So, feed him and provide a safe home, but he has to earn the extras (by getting a job, mowing the lawn, painting the house etc)
And give him 'space' to work it out for himself.
We parents worry so much because we see the bigger picture and it's hard to watch them doing 'nothing', but most of our kids find their way when given the time and space.

(Sorry for going on so much, and forgive my presumptions but I hope something I've offered helps)

Anyway everyone here is supporting you Copeland and thinking of you. Take care of yourself

 

[Copeland]

Wow, there are some really conflicting opinions here, which is making it tuff. A lady just started at my work an I told her of my situation and she said she had the same prob with her son. She told him if he didn't get a job by the time he was 19yo she'd kick him out, and she did the day after his b'day.
I wont do that, but his new job which probably earns bugger all means he can be on the pc all nite and he sleeps all day, I asked him how much has he earnt and he said not much I'm still learning it all. I'm a bit sus as to whether this is a job or a hobby that makes a few bucks, and an excuse to be on the pc. If i take away his curfew, he'll be very pissed off and say something like I'm never happy with what choices he makes, he's already told me that he doesn't think I'm proud of him, which did hurt. We probably have to lend him the money for his car rego or he wont be able to look for work. Maybe he could get up early take my wife to work, use her car, and chip in for petrol, that would get him out of bed. Just thought of that.
I guess I'll have to just try to use what suits my situation, because what works for some wont work for others and I know my son best. I can't use what my Dad said to me which was. You now have a job, your job, is to get a job. Different times. And I'll say again, I don't want him hating me, like I did my Dad when I was young, that lingers for a long time. I do make a point of not being on his case every time I see him, but I'm just so very frustrated and then whinge to my wife who has enough of me also.

 

[pies1958]

Great advice Magpie Girl.

I know this thread is about Copeland, but there's a lot of us out there in the same situation.

I'm really grateful for Copeland speaking up!

My son's girlfriend is doing year 12 this year and when she finishes at the end of the year I think they are both going to take a gap year together, work a bit, travel a bit. I think it's a great idea. He wasn't even 18 when he finished Year 12 so I think he's still very young. A year off to work and learn and think a bit would be good.

But I think there's only so much we can do and you're right, we shouldn't take it personally. The best parent in the world can't solve all their children's problems. We just have to do our best and hope for the best and try and keep our sanity and relations intact in the process.

I make an effort to spend time with him playing pool or going to the footy. Just to keep in his life and have some non-serious time together. We laugh and hang out. I know I'm lucky. I think it's really important to have some dad/son time together and I make an effort to not get on his case all the time but I know there are times when a tough word is needed. It's finding a balance, I guess, like Magpie Girl said.

Good luck everyone with teenagers. It can be a tough ride.

 

[Magpie Girl]

Great advice Magpie Girl.

I know this thread is about Copeland, but there's a lot of us out there in the same situation.

I'm really grateful for Copeland speaking up!

My son's girlfriend is doing year 12 this year and when she finishes at the end of the year I think they are both going to take a gap year together, work a bit, travel a bit. I think it's a great idea. He wasn't even 18 when he finished Year 12 so I think he's still very young. A year off to work and learn and think a bit would be good.

But I think there's only so much we can do and you're right, we shouldn't take it personally. The best parent in the world can't solve all their children's problems. We just have to do our best and hope for the best and try and keep our sanity and relations intact in the process.

I make an effort to spend time with him playing pool or going to the footy. Just to keep in his life and have some non-serious time together. We laugh and hang out. I know I'm lucky. I think it's really important to have some dad/son time together and I make an effort to not get on his case all the time but I know there are times when a tough word is needed. It's finding a balance, I guess, like Magpie Girl said.

Good luck everyone with teenagers. It can be a tough ride.

Thanks Pies
My sister is a social worker and she used to work in Children's Services. She had horror stories.
I've never forgotten something she said to me once when I was venting about my teenage kids being difficult and uncooperative, and really pushing my buttons.

"If that's all you have to complain about you've done a great job"

It put everything into perspective for me. No drugs, no violence, no trouble. So,we had a few arguments,but they were great kids at heart.
She explained to me that its important for them to push the boundaries when growing up, and they do so because they know its safe
It's the ones who have no boundaries that struggle.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Hey Copeland, it seems like a tricky situation.

It seems, purely from this very limited perspective we'd have on this situation, is that he's very very comfortable as he is. Which to be honest, seems natural. Personally, I work 2 jobs and would love nothing more than to not work at all. Not workign is AWESOME, especially when there's no fear of losing anything.

I think the only advice I can suggest is take away that comfort somehow? Let the internet disconnect? Let the car break down? Let the rego expire?

Or maybe just give him some "Help money" and send him out into the world to learn what it really takes.

 

[pies1958]

Hey Copeland, it seems like a tricky situation.

It seems, purely from this very limited perspective we'd have on this situation, is that he's very very comfortable as he is. Which to be honest, seems natural. Personally, I work 2 jobs and would love nothing more than to not work at all. Not workign is AWESOME, especially when there's no fear of losing anything.

I think the only advice I can suggest is take away that comfort somehow? Let the internet disconnect? Let the car break down? Let the rego expire?

Or maybe just give him some "Help money" and send him out into the world to learn what it really takes.

I think if my son wasn't doing a course we'd be on his back to get out there and get a job. I've always believed getting a job is your job when you don't have one. I know what his mum's like too, she would disconnect the internet at home if she thought he was staying up all night playing games instead of getting a good night sleep so he can get up and look for a job. I'm good cop and she's bad cop. When they're still dependent on you and living in your house, then it's your rules. But it's give and take. Our boy has only just turned 18 and studying and has had part-time jobs since he was 15 so different situation, I suppose. If someone is in their 20s and lacking motivation to study or work, it could be a sign of depression or other problems. Tough love doesn't always work but I agree sometimes they have to learn the hard way.

 

[Copeland]

He's now got a girlfriend and had an interview for a job, so fingers crossed. It's installing security systems, problem is he didn't tell them he's color blind so will have to wait and see if he gets the job first. BTW I play computer games myself, so I no how much fun it can be, it's one thing we have in common but not the only.

 

[Copeland]

I put a password on his computer, well all of them actually(3). Its seems someone has told him it an now I'm locked out.
Because he has so much time I give him chores. Wednesday he was supposed to sweep front and back verandahs. Thursday empty all the bins and put them out the front for the trucks. Every Friday he's supposed to vacuum and wash our tiles. He's done fk all, really on his case just to get the inside bins emptied, because the trucks were coming(I had already put the big ones on the footpath out the front). I've asked him to mow the lawn in the past and end up doing it myself.
I've found out he hasn't applied for the dole because her doesn't want to be a dole bludger. WTF, so we have to pay his insurance and rego, be cause he doesn't want some tag. He's on some scheme that pays him $40 a week.
I hid the cord to his monitor but he found another, now I've hidden that. Sitting here drinking double Scotch really pissed off.
I think he wont put his name down at the mushroom farm because that wont be cool.
At least I can come here to vent my frustration.
As far as him having depression, I wish I could be as happy as him, because I do have it, went to my Dr the other day and told him my story and just burst in to tears. Why is life so hard, my missus never asks me how I'm going, that's why sometimes I just want to leave and start over.
But my daughter is still in school so I have to keep going and support her. AND she has me t a guy on line from NZ, she wanted to go to his 21st but we wouldn't allow it, she had just turned 17. The thing is he is coming here to stay with us and meet us all, pretty weird this internet dating shit, but they've chatted nearly every nite for 18 months.
BTW he didn't get the the job which is a real bummer.

 

[TradeDraft]

He's now got a girlfriend and had an interview for a job, so fingers crossed. It's installing security systems, problem is he didn't tell them he's color blind so will have to wait and see if he gets the job first. BTW I play computer games myself, so I no how much fun it can be, it's one thing we have in common but not the only.

Well maybe his new Misses can be the Spark that he Needs.

I put a password on his computer, well all of them actually(3). Its seems someone has told him it an now I'm locked out.
Because he has so much time I give him chores. Wednesday he was supposed to sweep front and back verandahs. Thursday empty all the bins and put them out the front for the trucks. Every Friday he's supposed to vacuum and wash our tiles. He's done fk all, really on his case just to get the inside bins emptied, because the trucks were coming(I had already put the big ones on the footpath out the front). I've asked him to mow the lawn in the past and end up doing it myself.
I've found out he hasn't applied for the dole because her doesn't want to be a dole bludger. WTF, so we have to pay his insurance and rego, be cause he doesn't want some tag. He's on some scheme that pays him $40 a week.
I hid the cord to his monitor but he found another, now I've hidden that. Sitting here drinking double Scotch really pissed off.
I think he wont put his name down at the mushroom farm because that wont be cool.
At least I can come here to vent my frustration.
As far as him having depression, I wish I could be as happy as him, because I do have it, went to my Dr the other day and told him my story and just burst in to tears. Why is life so hard, my missus never asks me how I'm going, that's why sometimes I just want to leave and start over.
But my daughter is still in school so I have to keep going and support her. AND she has me t a guy on line from NZ, she wanted to go to his 21st but we wouldn't allow it, she had just turned 17. The thing is he is coming here to stay with us and meet us all, pretty weird this internet dating shit, but they've chatted nearly every nite for 18 months.
BTW he didn't get the the job which is a real bummer.

That Sucks that you are locked out now.

That is pretty piss weak he has not done any Chores. I can see that would make you Angry. I have Chores I do and As long as I am reminded of them I will do them.

I don't think you can be a Dole Bludger anymore as you have to show Centerlink you have tried to get Jobs to get the Dole.

That is Terrible that you feel you just want to walk out and Start all over again. Good Idea to come on here and Vent as we can help you as best we can.

I have not done Internet Dating as I just don't trust it. Hey I never been on a date in my Life.

Sad to hear he did not get the Job

 

[TradeDraft]

Maybe get him to make and sell some Apps as I have heard you can make some good money if you do a good job

 

[CasuallyDressed]

I put a password on his computer, well all of them actually(3). Its seems someone has told him it an now I'm locked out.
Because he has so much time I give him chores. Wednesday he was supposed to sweep front and back verandahs. Thursday empty all the bins and put them out the front for the trucks. Every Friday he's supposed to vacuum and wash our tiles. He's done fk all, really on his case just to get the inside bins emptied, because the trucks were coming(I had already put the big ones on the footpath out the front). I've asked him to mow the lawn in the past and end up doing it myself.
I've found out he hasn't applied for the dole because her doesn't want to be a dole bludger. WTF, so we have to pay his insurance and rego, be cause he doesn't want some tag. He's on some scheme that pays him $40 a week.
I hid the cord to his monitor but he found another, now I've hidden that. Sitting here drinking double Scotch really pissed off.
I think he wont put his name down at the mushroom farm because that wont be cool.
At least I can come here to vent my frustration.
As far as him having depression, I wish I could be as happy as him, because I do have it, went to my Dr the other day and told him my story and just burst in to tears. Why is life so hard, my missus never asks me how I'm going, that's why sometimes I just want to leave and start over.
But my daughter is still in school so I have to keep going and support her. AND she has me t a guy on line from NZ, she wanted to go to his 21st but we wouldn't allow it, she had just turned 17. The thing is he is coming here to stay with us and meet us all, pretty weird this internet dating shit, but they've chatted nearly every nite for 18 months.
BTW he didn't get the the job which is a real bummer.

Sorry to hear all this mate.

I need a new boxing sparring partner if he's interested.

 

[Copeland]

Sorry to hear all this mate.

I need a new boxing sparring partner if he's interested.

lol, do you pay? he does MMA actually. Only the training tho because he has plates, rods and screws in his arm from a roller skating accident.

 

[Pera]

Dont be too hard on the boy Copeland. When I was 18, I had studied my arse of in year 12 and came out with an average score. Im not sure how he went in high school but the first thing I wanted to do til I was 21 was be lazy and just soak up the nightlife after 12 years of schooling (that was my hobby). I also played a truck load of COD online and when I finally did enroll for a tafe course, I barely put any time into. If he doesnt want to do anything now, thats fine. Still plenty of time.

Computer games are your sons hobby and trust me, it will occur to him someday very soon that he has to get his life going. But for now, just let him cruise, no matter how hard it must be for you and the wife. I dunno all the details of whats going on in the household, but all the pressures he is being put under wouldnt be helping him get out there and find some work.

Just my input and wish you all the best with it buddy

 

[pies1958]

My parents are very different. My mother was a tyrant with her four kids (3 boys and a girl) and my father was very loving but not into discipline. Unfortunately it's hard to find the balance. My dad ended up raising four kids on his own from when we were young because mum couldn't handle it. He never disciplined and we basically run amok for a long time and got into a lot of trouble. I was different because I loved study and work so I got going in life a bit sooner. My older brother has never really had a job (he's in his 40s) and got into petty crime and drug abuse. My sister and my brother took a while but have eventually found work that suits them and are moderately successful. But the point is, they got there in the end. It was a tough ride for my dad though. I wonder what life would have been like for us if mum had have stayed and we'd been raised in a more strict house. Would it have made any difference? I don't know. But I think balance is the key. Some days you have to show tough love but there has to be times when you let things go and let things just take their course. Not sure my little story helps but I think my dad was too nice and too forgiving and my brothers and sister basically took advantage of him for a very very long time, and still do. He'll still just give them money in their 40s which I find ridiculous. They haven't learnt to be completely self-reliant. I think my point is everyone can use a hand sometimes in life but self-reliance is an important life skill.

 

[Copeland]

Thanks for your comments.
I'm not so hard on him any more about getting job, but I feel if he's not going to work and pay fk all board he still needs to contribute to the family somehow. We work all week and then on the week end we're washing his clothes and hanging them on the line while he is sleeping which is really unfair. Then there's the rest of the house work, while he sleeps/has fun/plays games/visits girlfriend. I'm sick of him bludging off us, we don't make much money, $16 an hr each and he's barely contributing. He dragged his arse in senior college and ended up doing a 3 year VCE. Now he's dragging his arse in life, its just building up inside of me and I feel I'll explode again, I don't know how long I can keep letting him do his own thing.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

lol, do you pay? he does MMA actually. Only the training tho because he has plates, rods and screws in his arm from a roller skating accident.

I think my trainer gives them something ... but I did kill my last sparring partner.

In all seriousness, I hope this situation can work itself out. I don't understand the mentality of people who refuse to work. I couldn't live without having enough money to do the things I want to do and feel so closed up at home.

Maybe one day He'll wake up and see the drama that he is actually causing in his family. If he was younger, I'd seriously have suggested military school.

 

[Copeland]

Its not that he refuses to work its he's fussy about what he does. When he worked with me his work ethic was very poor and often late. He seemed to be late all the time for his last job but he assured me he wasn't, hopefully he can find something he really likes and apply himself accordingly.

@ pies1958 so your Dad worked, did all the house work, cooked and cleaned and gave you handouts. Wow very tough on him, sounds like my wife.

 

[TradeDraft]

Its not that he refuses to work its he's fussy about what he does. When he worked with me his work ethic was very poor and often late. He seemed to be late all the time for his last job but he assured me he wasn't, hopefully he can find something he really likes and apply himself accordingly.

@ pies1958 so your Dad worked, did all the house work, cooked and cleaned and gave you handouts. Wow very tough on him, sounds like my wife.

Sounds like he had a Problem of Motivation but as you say hopefully he finds and gets a job that Motivates him and he can do his best job