Society/Culture Does the Australian flag have an image problem?

[Cuzz09]

Probably not a bad idea.

Sport is good but after the event it's all Whoopi doo

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Carringbush2010]

Well for my part I am immensely proud of this incredible country but I genuinely couldn't give a schitte when we win a gold medal at the Olympics. It's not either/or.

I'll remind you're not everyone Gonzo, you might not give a schitte as you say but many will and there's obviously a swell of interest in 'us' winning gold medals.

So obviously there's pride in nation - not for everyone, obviously not your good self.

So then we get to the point of those that do have pride in nation doing well are morons for having that pride - obviously that is an absurd assertion.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Apparently Finland decided years ago to stop spending lots of money on the olympics and now they barely win anything but I hear their education system is top notch.

Probably something they as a nation have great pride in.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I'll remind you're not everyone Gonzo

…Probably why I began my post with “for my part”

So then we get to the point of those that do have pride in nation doing well are morons for having that pride - obviously that is an absurd assertion.

Yes, I wasn’t the one saying people are morons. But given that - as they say - every corpse on Mt Everest was once a highly-motivated person, there is definitely a fruitful discussion to be had about WHAT we celebrate as a nation.

For instance, I think the fact that our democracy is robust enough that we were recently able to peacefully vote out the worst federal government ever, is something to celebrate. That means a lot more to me than some digger setting an Olympic Record in Equestrian Water Polo, or whatever. (Although even there, it’s worth asking why it took us nine years).

Compare that to the insanity of the US, the country that keeps telling itself and the rest of us that it’s the world’s greatest democracy. Pshaw! as Mark Twain would say.

 

[Carringbush2010]

WHAT we celebrate as a nation.

Well that will differ from person to person, so it's obvious that there is pride in nation - some don't like 'pride in nation' and that's whole point of the thread. Seems obvious that most think it's absurd that pride in nation is a bad thing.

Seems it's painted that having pride in nation is some sort of 'bad'. Nah fk that! (how that is even socially allowable idk) For those who have some sort of embarrassment / hatred for others being proud of the flag or our country in general.

Good! They can GAGF!

For instance, I think the fact that our democracy is robust enough that we were recently able to peacefully vote out the worst federal government ever, is something to celebrate. That means a lot more to me than some digger setting an Olympic Record in Equestrian Water Polo, or whatever. (Although even there, it’s worth asking why it took us nine years).

OK you do you, and I'll do me (and it's certain I'll have numbers to agree with me here), I'm more than proud that our diggers gave us the liberal (who I have relations with- as do many many others) democracy we have now - just to have the option to rid us of slomo is a result of our 'diggers' fighting for and winning our right to do so.

Compare that to the insanity of the US, the country that keeps telling itself and the rest of us that it’s the world’s greatest democracy. Pshaw! as Mark Twain would say.

I agree with this, however we don't compare do we. In saying that because the US is a democracy I'm sure (certainly won't be alone in this view) that it will right itself.

As far as the 'image problem' - sure we do have that, but I'd confidently argue that it's only a noisy minority that has a problem with Australia having a problem with it's 'image'. Usually the self loathers who don't realize how much much worse it could be.

 

[Cyg1992]

Seems pretty obvious our flag is definitely intended / supposed to represent our history. Not debating whether that supposition is right or wrong, merely pointing out as a counter to your claim.

As for your 'young' flags - yes this is true, for example the Canadian flag changed sometime in the 50's if I am correct - in an attempt to symbolize their independence.

That's great, however they're still recognized as one of 'britains lil countries' the world over, not to mention one of the 'French's territories'. Regardless of the flag.

We should do the same, we'd still be known as the Queen's lap dog though, and we'd still be known as the place the brits stole from its rightful owners in atrocious fashion.

Add to that, young nations are young nations, they still have history regardless. Doesn't mean their flags don't represent anything about them as a nation coz they're young nations.

So yeah flags are meant to represent / identify about a nations history, and not just that. A whole lot more than that.

There are several countries with either or both the Union Jack and the Southern Cross on them. Our flag doesn't demonstrate anything about our history that is unique to this land.

The Canadian flag is at least unique to their nation, despite what they're 'seen as'

I'm not wishing to change our flag by the way, nor do I have a problem with it being flown at any place or time.
I'm arguing that worshipping a flag life and death style, is just silly as they represent very little in actuality. Ditto for national anthems.

A nation is a collective of its people, which is something far more important than a flag.

 

[Carringbush2010]

There are several countries with either or both the Union Jack and the Southern Cross on them. Our flag doesn't demonstrate anything about our history that is unique to this land.

The Canadian flag is at least unique to their nation, despite what they're 'seen as'

I'm not wishing to change our flag by the way, nor do I have a problem with it being flown at any place or time.
I'm arguing that worshipping a flag life and death style, is just silly as they represent very little in actuality. Ditto for national anthems.

A nation is a collective of its people, which is something far more important than a flag.

I don't know anyone who is that fanatical, it's fair speculation that people like this number in the minuscule.

So I don't know who you're arguing against.

Your argument is fair enough, but labeling anyone as a moron (which has been suggested on these pages) who has pride in members of our nation doing good things and by extension representing the nation is not only offensive but absurd.

 

[Cyg1992]

I don't know anyone who is that fanatical, it's fair speculation that people like this number in the minuscule.

So I don't know who you're arguing against.

Your argument is fair enough, but labeling anyone as a moron (which has been suggested on these pages) who has pride in members of our nation doing good things and by extension representing the nation is not only offensive but absurd.

It isn't that miniscule. I'd say at least 20% of our population has that sort of mindset and that's quite a conservative estimate.

It's the same crowd that threw a toddler tantrum when Yasmin Mageid made a comment about Anzac Day, despite claiming to be anti censorship, cancel culture and pro free speech.

Who is calling anyone a moron that supports a nation doing good things? I think there's a crossed wire somewhere here.
I'm talking about the flag, which is what this topic is about, not a nations good deeds.

I'm arguing against the fanaticism from the above mentioned characters who use meaningless labels like 'uNaUsTrAlIAn' or 'gLoBaLiSt' for people who don't fanatically worship a flag or an anthem. Both things which have very little meaning in the bigger picture and often have low historical importance or relevance.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It isn't that miniscule. I'd say at least 20% of our population has that sort of mindset and that's quite a conservative estimate.

It's the same crowd that threw a toddler tantrum when Yasmin Mageid made a comment about Anzac Day, despite claiming to be anti censorship, cancel culture and pro free speech.

Who is calling anyone a moron that supports a nation doing good things? I think there's a crossed wire somewhere here.
I'm talking about the flag, which is what this topic is about, not a nations good deeds.

I'm arguing against the fanaticism from the above mentioned characters who use meaningless labels like 'uNaUsTrAlIAn' or 'gLoBaLiSt' for people who don't fanatically worship a flag or an anthem. Both things which have very little meaning in the bigger picture and often have low historical importance or relevance.

Yes you would say that, if you know anyone like this go give em a piece of your mind. Do you know anyone who is this irrationally fanatical? Me thinks you're listening to the noise and believing it's a large group.

You also say the thread is about the flag and then in the next sentence you claim you're arguing against the fanaticism.

Maybe read the thread title, it asks whether the flag has an image problem, you know the fanatics that you talk about.

Would you agree it's just as irrational to label anyone that is patriotic as morons? It's nothing to be ashamed of, and for those that are embarrassed of our flag / nation, I pity them.

 

[kickazz]

So Dai Le, the newly elected independent MP for Fowler, has made her debut speech in parliament wearing a traditional Vietnamese áo dài made out of the Aussie flag:

​

The last time someone wore the flag in parliament, it was Pauline Hanson warning us of the Asian invasion.

It is an interesting choice to wear - and more interesting would be people's reactions to it. Does it seem less chauvinistic because a non-white person is wearing it? Does the fact she is an Independent MP make it more 'OK' to wear it? Does the aforementioned in this thread "I wonder if they are a redneck bogan" even come into anyone's thought patterns here?

To me, it represents what Australia means to a lot of immigrants - a pretty damn good country that does give all sorts of people opportunities. Especially compared to some of our neighbours in Asia, we are not as racist as them - but of course there is a lot for us to learn here, especially around casual racism.

 

[Father Jack]

So Dai Le, the newly elected independent MP for Fowler, has made her debut speech in parliament wearing a traditional Vietnamese áo dài made out of the Aussie flag:

View attachment 1500694

​

The last time someone wore the flag in parliament, it was Pauline Hanson warning us of the Asian invasion.

It is an interesting choice to wear - and more interesting would be people's reactions to it. Does it seem less chauvinistic because a non-white person is wearing it? Does the fact she is an Independent MP make it more 'OK' to wear it? Does the aforementioned in this thread "I wonder if they are a redneck bogan" even come into anyone's thought patterns here?

To me, it represents what Australia means to a lot of immigrants - a pretty damn good country that does give all sorts of people opportunities. Especially compared to some of our neighbours in Asia, we are not as racist as them - but of course there is a lot for us to learn here, especially around casual racism.

That's a Union Jack with some random stars on the arms.

 

[the_interloper]

Flying the flag for Men’s Shed

The NSW State Government wanted to spend $25 million to erect another flagpole on the Sydney Harbour Bridge - the [...]

cqtoday.com.au

Thoughts on this one? Unfortunately I don't think it would be a good look for Men's Shed, however well it might be intentioned. They'll either be called tryhard Yanks or rednecks.

 

[tandino]

Flying the flag for Men’s Shed

The NSW State Government wanted to spend $25 million to erect another flagpole on the Sydney Harbour Bridge - the [...]

cqtoday.com.au

Thoughts on this one? Unfortunately I don't think it would be a good look for Men's Shed, however well it might be intentioned. They'll either be called tryhard Yanks or rednecks.

No surprise it would be a Queensland thing.

Seems pretty harmless.

 

[kickazz]

That's a Union Jack with some random stars on the arms.

In other words, the Australian flag.

 

[Cyg1992]

Yes you would say that, if you know anyone like this go give em a piece of your mind. Do you know anyone who is this irrationally fanatical? Me thinks you're listening to the noise and believing it's a large group.

You also say the thread is about the flag and then in the next sentence you claim you're arguing against the fanaticism.

Maybe read the thread title, it asks whether the flag has an image problem, you know the fanatics that you talk about.

Would you agree it's just as irrational to label anyone that is patriotic as morons? It's nothing to be ashamed of, and for those that are embarrassed of our flag / nation, I pity them.

It's definitely not a small group.
I'd say nearly all the people who vote for one nation or Palmer United would fall into this category as well as a fair shake of LNP voters. As well as any other anti vax/cooker group.

Last time I saw this type of fanaticism for a flag it was very ugly. A big event in my city called the Cronulla riots. I don't think any of those clowns have reformed and some would've multiplied since then.
We even had our then prime minister making excuses for it.

I am exactly talking about the thread title. The capillary popping fanaticism over a flag or anthem is stupid. And yes, overly patriotic types are morons.
Pride in one's country is perfectly fine but when it descends into using meaningless terms like 'uN-AuStRaLiAn' because someone doesn't share said blind patriotism, then we're indeed knee deep in moron territory.

 

[Cyg1992]

So Dai Le, the newly elected independent MP for Fowler, has made her debut speech in parliament wearing a traditional Vietnamese áo dài made out of the Aussie flag:

View attachment 1500694

​

The last time someone wore the flag in parliament, it was Pauline Hanson warning us of the Asian invasion.

It is an interesting choice to wear - and more interesting would be people's reactions to it. Does it seem less chauvinistic because a non-white person is wearing it? Does the fact she is an Independent MP make it more 'OK' to wear it? Does the aforementioned in this thread "I wonder if they are a redneck bogan" even come into anyone's thought patterns here?

To me, it represents what Australia means to a lot of immigrants - a pretty damn good country that does give all sorts of people opportunities. Especially compared to some of our neighbours in Asia, we are not as racist as them - but of course there is a lot for us to learn here, especially around casual racism.

I think she's trying to appeal to a certain demographic of voters. Namely the ones Hanson was trying to appeal to when she wore a flag in parliament.

 

[Father Jack]

In other words, the Australian flag.

I've never heard the Australian flag described as a union jack with random stars on the arms before, but then I'm no vexillologist.

 

[kickazz]

I've never heard the Australian flag described as a union jack with random stars on the arms before, but then I'm no vexillologist.

No, you're a pedant.

 

[Father Jack]

No, you're a pedant.

A pennant pedant, if you like

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's definitely not a small group.
I'd say nearly all the people who vote for one nation or Palmer United would fall into this category as well as a fair shake of LNP voters. As well as any other anti vax/cooker group.

Last time I saw this type of fanaticism for a flag it was very ugly. A big event in my city called the Cronulla riots. I don't think any of those clowns have reformed and some would've multiplied since then.
We even had our then prime minister making excuses for it.

I am exactly talking about the thread title. The capillary popping fanaticism over a flag or anthem is stupid. And yes, overly patriotic types are morons.
Pride in one's country is perfectly fine but when it descends into using meaningless terms like 'uN-AuStRaLiAn' because someone doesn't share said blind patriotism, then we're indeed knee deep in moron territory.

1/ Well this is definitely a minority then isn't it, as for your speculation on the LNP voters, I'll ask again, do you know anyone? If you are correct would you suggest we batten down the hatches coz the nazis are comin?

2/ And? Who is arguing this?

3/ And? Who is arguing this?

Finally anything that is 'overly' patriotic is not patriotic at all, it's fanatical and irrational, why do you have some weird belief that this is the norm?

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think she's trying to appeal to a certain demographic of voters. Namely the ones Hanson was trying to appeal to when she wore a flag in parliament.

This is an interesting take! Why someone honourable like Dai Le be targeting neo liths like Hanson voters?

 

[rank and file]

This can be the interim flag for the next 15 days while the Canberra boys are mourning.

 

[Cyg1992]

1/ Well this is definitely a minority then isn't it, as for your speculation on the LNP voters, I'll ask again, do you know anyone? If you are correct would you suggest we batten down the hatches coz the nazis are comin?

2/ And? Who is arguing this?

3/ And? Who is arguing this?

Finally anything that is 'overly' patriotic is not patriotic at all, it's fanatical and irrational, why do you have some weird belief that this is the norm?

Yes i know plenty. Some of my peers are such people. Even voted for the aforementioned parties.

Where the Cronulla riots happened, is a blue ribbon LNP seat.

What have Nazis got to do with it? A flag-cape wearing bogan isn't necessarily a Nazi.

Not sure what the rest of your jibberish means but I think my point is pretty clear.

Those who are obsessed with flags and anthems, to the point where they put down others who aren't, are the image problem with said flags and anthems.

Just look at the snowflake reaction from the predictable suspects today re the Queens death.
All peas in the same pod.

 

[Cyg1992]

This is an interesting take! Why someone honourable like Dai Le be targeting neo liths like Hanson voters?

Dai le is a useful idiot for those pushing the same narrative as one nation.

It's the exact reason she wore the attempted flag dress.
This is pretty obvious.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Dai le is a useful idiot for those pushing the same narrative as one nation.

It's the exact reason she wore the attempted flag dress.
This is pretty obvious.

Thanks Keneally.