Society/Culture Does the Australian flag have an image problem?

[Gethelred]

The problem or narrative depending on how one perceives is that the following is bad:

• Colonies, colonization
• Commonwealth of Australia
• Legal and political system
• National official language
• Sport

In short anything that is non indigenous = bad.

Oversimplification.

Yeah I know it's only a noisy minority that have this problem / perception. None the less here we are talking about it and further, we're on the precipice of having an indigenous voice to parliament*, to represent. That's how much traction the noise of a disgruntled minority has carried this.

Long bow, extrapolated from that oversimplification.

Whichever way you boil it down and dissect it, anything to to with british or non indigenous is perceived as bad / to be punished / eradicated - whatever

Repeating yourself.

* I think this is a good thing, I also think all minorities should have representation in parliament. How we do that I don't know.

"All lives matter."

All in all, a rather performative post, doing rather a lot to be deceptive which is at odds with the rather earnest tone.

 

[Evolved1]

I'd go for that. Honestly I don't reckon it would look that good but the sentiment would override that.

Do you have to have a referendum to change a flag? I have no idea.

The color scheme would be horrible. Surely you'd have to change the blue to black at the very least.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Oversimplification.

Well unless you want me to write a 1000 word essay.........

Long bow, extrapolated from that oversimplification.

Please explain how it is a long bow.

Repeating yourself.

Yes this is a crime, never seen it done before on these pages.

"All lives matter."

Yes they do, seems you have an issue with that.

All in all, a rather performative post, doing rather a lot to be deceptive which is at odds with the rather earnest tone.

Performative? Deceptive? How so?

Gethy, you're continuing your unhealthy obsessive assumption of what you perceive to be my 'position' 'views'

Maybe read my posts for what they are instead of making assumptions.

I invite you to pm me on my 'views' if you wish, given I understand you don't want to engage. You'd just rather make assumptions.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Whilst in Australia, Australian's DID NOT fight and die under this follow flag

View attachment 1481128

but rather this one

...the federal government policy was "The flying of the Commonwealth Blue Ensign is reserved for Commonwealth Government use but there is no reservation in the case of the Commonwealth Merchant Flag, or Red Ensign".

It wasn't until the 1950s when the Flag Act ordinary Australians had clarity under law they could use it.

I would have thought that soldiers are first and foremost Commonwealth of Australia employees and those who die in combat would surely have qualified for a coffin draped in the blue ensign? It's an interesting point you make though all the same.

Our war dead in times past were buried under a different flag, even if it only differs by shade.

 

[Gethelred]

I invite you to pm me on my 'views' if you wish, given I understand you don't want to engage. You'd just rather make assumptions.

Because we've had this particular discussion before, CB. You don't move. You get stuck on ideas, and you do not stop repeating them in a myriad of forms.

And they're not assumptions when you make the same exact opinion over and over and over again.

 

[Power Raid]

I would have thought that soldiers are first and foremost Commonwealth of Australia employees and those who die in combat would surely have qualified for a coffin draped in the blue ensign? It's an interesting point you make though all the same.

Our war dead in times past were buried under a different flag, even if it only differs by shade.

The nation and the department of defence fought under that flag but the individuals didn't

ie they wouldn't have been able to "legally use it"

that said there was a practical application due to this embarrassing situation from 1939

 

[Carringbush2010]

Because we've had this particular discussion before, CB. You don't move. You get stuck on ideas, and you do not stop repeating them in a myriad of forms.

And they're not assumptions when you make the same exact opinion over and over and over again.

There you go again, pm me next time.

 

[kickazz]

Only a quarter of it.

 

[killtaker1993]

I can't think of any issue I give a f*** about less than what our flag looks like. Care factor zero

 

[Cyg1992]

There are still people in here claiming flags are supposed to represent history of a nation or something similar to that.

That is false, as most flags aren't very old at all and many of them represent nations which also aren't very old.

Flags are merely what those in power wished them to be at a particular point in time. Nothing more.

 

[Carringbush2010]

There are still people in here claiming flags are supposed to represent history of a nation or something similar to that.

That is false, as most flags aren't very old at all and many of them represent nations which also aren't very old.

Flags are merely what those in power wished them to be at a particular point in time. Nothing more.

Seems pretty obvious our flag is definitely intended / supposed to represent our history. Not debating whether that supposition is right or wrong, merely pointing out as a counter to your claim.

As for your 'young' flags - yes this is true, for example the Canadian flag changed sometime in the 50's if I am correct - in an attempt to symbolize their independence.

That's great, however they're still recognized as one of 'britains lil countries' the world over, not to mention one of the 'French's territories'. Regardless of the flag.

We should do the same, we'd still be known as the Queen's lap dog though, and we'd still be known as the place the brits stole from its rightful owners in atrocious fashion.

Add to that, young nations are young nations, they still have history regardless. Doesn't mean their flags don't represent anything about them as a nation coz they're young nations.

So yeah flags are meant to represent / identify about a nations history, and not just that. A whole lot more than that.

 

[sataris]

So yeah flags are meant to represent / identify about a nations history, and not just that. A whole lot more than that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags

Flags change way more often than people think. I think the oldest (still used) flag is the English flag, which I think has been around for 900 years??

They're not just about the history, but they also represent the zeitgesit of the nation at the time they are adopted.

 

[Carringbush2010]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags

Flags change way more often than people think. I think the oldest (still used) flag is the English flag, which I think has been around for 900 years??

They're not just about the history, but they also represent the zeitgesit of the nation at the time they are adopted.

I don't disagree, like I said, flags (maybe not all) are intended represent a nations history, and not just that, a whole lot more than that. Ours certainly does.

So to the thread topic, does it have an image problem? Well it depends on how one views it, would be surprised if the majority of the populace view it as an image problem.

I'm certainly not invested in wasting emotional energy on it though, some are, pity for them.

 

[Father Jack]

Why replace the corner of our flag (Union Jack) that represents a major part of our history but only a small part of our people for another flag (Indigenous) that has the same limited relevance. Put both on or neither.

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There clearly should be no place for the flag of another country on our flag, but rather than having limited relevance, the Aboriginal flag on our flag would recognise the fact that the people it represents inhabited this land for tens of thousands of years before it was taken over by a foreign power and therefore occupy a unique place in our society.

I see absolutely no issue in having one but not the other.

 

[kickazz]

The indigenous history is tens of thousands of years old. The Union Jack represents less than 300 years.

This is true, but like it or not the history the UJ represents has had a far greater influence on what the country is today.


I say have neither. The flag should be for every Australian equally.

 

[JackFlash]

Australia has an image problem, we are not the lucly country anymore and you can thank its people for that. Most flags designs were apparently inspired by doodles off the back of grade two students' crayon writing classes, since the coolest things they could come up with to represent entire countries or states were stars, suns and maybe a bird or a bear if you're lucky. We should be Green and Gold with a kangaroo on it somewhere, maybe have stars for the states and territories? Have something that every Australian can have some pride in?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Australia has an image problem, we are not the lucly country anymore and you can thank its people for that. Most flags designs were apparently inspired by doodles off the back of grade two students' crayon writing classes, since the coolest things they could come up with to represent entire countries or states were stars, suns and maybe a bird or a bear if you're lucky. We should be Green and Gold with a kangaroo on it somewhere, maybe have stars for the states and territories? Have something that every Australian can have some pride in?

Only a moron would have some pride in any national flag, let alone one with a kangaroo on it.

 

[Father Jack]

This is true, but like it or not the history the UJ represents has had a far greater influence on what the country is today.


I say have neither. The flag should be for every Australian equally.

A flag with the Aboriginal flag on it would be for every Australian equally, it would merely recognise the culture that existed on this land for tens of thousands of years before the nation of Australia was formed.

 

[kickazz]

A flag with the Aboriginal flag on it would be for every Australian equally, it would merely recognise the culture that existed on this land for tens of thousands of years before the nation of Australia was formed.

Well that's technically a contradiction - on one hand you say it represents everyone equally, but then say that part represents the first culture to be here (but not the second, third, fourth, fifth, etc)

I'm from Eastern European background - my ancestors were driven off their land and sought refuge here. They made a significant contribution to this country. Do we get a symbol on the flag? I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, but clearly having a Union Jack or Aboriginal flag represents one group of Australian unequally.

(fwiw, the song, "I am Australian" is much better at equal representation)

My preference would be to leave the UJ off the flag. I would also rather Australia as a whole do not culturally appropriate the aboriginal flag onto the national flag. I prefer what we do now and have the three Australian flags (Aus, Aboriginal, TSI) flown at significant buildings, etc.

 

[Cuzz09]

What about just a map of Australia with blue background (ocean/island/girt by sea etc) and inside Australia the aboriginal colours (black/,red/yellow sun)

That'd look ok

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[JackFlash]

Only a moron would have some pride in any national flag, let alone one with a kangaroo on it.

What doodle would you like on it? Green and Gold colours go back to 1899 and were officially established by the Governor-General of Australia, on 19 April 1984; on advice from Prime Minister Bob Hawke and sporting teams have been wearing it ever since, it's unimaginable to see an Australian team being representaed in any other colours? I know Australians get confused very easily these days and being proud is one of them
Okay, so we don't wangt the union jack on our flag or some people want no flag at all? If not a kangaroo, this "moron" would like to see something that says something about ourselves somehow? I siuppose the Australian Coat of arms is out of the question? A shield, depicting symbols of Australia's six states, is held up by the native Australian animals, the Kangaroo and Emu. It wouldn't bother me if that was on a green and gold flag?

Pride meaning:
The state or feeling of being proud. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.

Don't Australians feel that or want to feel that? I'm not talking about people who turn the love of their country into a freaking religion and believe that their nation and its flag stand as an island of righteousness in a ocean of evil foreigners. Nationlaism didn't exist until the 18th century. Up until that point, the zealous types were all about loyalty to their ethnic group, or a leader, or their religion, their city-state or their clan/tribe. Not their country, because countries as we understand them today didn't exist.
No good?

 

[Frank Grimes]

The image problem comes more from Xenophobes hijacking it such as Pauline Hanson draping herself in it; or the bogans wearing it as a cape during the Cronella riots.

I must admit it is unfortunate and sad as a result that when I see the Australian flag being flown by someone's car or outside their house I wonder what the person's intentions are.

 

[carltonchelsea]

Australia has an image problem, we are not the lucly country anymore and you can thank its people for that. Most flags designs were apparently inspired by doodles off the back of grade two students' crayon writing classes, since the coolest things they could come up with to represent entire countries or states were stars, suns and maybe a bird or a bear if you're lucky. We should be Green and Gold with a kangaroo on it somewhere, maybe have stars for the states and territories? Have something that every Australian can have some pride in?

Just like every single one of your posts!

 

[Father Jack]

Well that's technically a contradiction - on one hand you say it represents everyone equally, but then say that part represents the first culture to be here (but not the second, third, fourth, fifth, etc)

I'm from Eastern European background - my ancestors were driven off their land and sought refuge here. They made a significant contribution to this country. Do we get a symbol on the flag? I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, but clearly having a Union Jack or Aboriginal flag represents one group of Australian unequally.

(fwiw, the song, "I am Australian" is much better at equal representation)

My preference would be to leave the UJ off the flag. I would also rather Australia as a whole do not culturally appropriate the aboriginal flag onto the national flag. I prefer what we do now and have the three Australian flags (Aus, Aboriginal, TSI) flown at significant buildings, etc.

I think that the culture that has existed here for tens of thousands of years should be recognised as a part of the flag; the flag would represent us as a whole with that small part simply recognising that Australia existed long before 1788.

I'm not sure why you feel like we have to separate our pre-colonial history and set it aside as something 'other' as if it has nothing to do with the nation we are now.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

I think that the culture that has existed here for tens of thousands of years should be recognised as a part of the flag; the flag would represent us as a whole with that small part simply recognising that Australia existed long before 1788.

I'm not sure why you feel like we have to separate our pre-colonial history and set it aside as something 'other' as if it has nothing to do with the nation we are now.

How many thousands of years has this culture existed?