Don Dale Centre videos on 4 corners: treatment of children in custody (Northern Territory)

[Freo Big Fella]

You are right. It doesn't excuse what was done to him. However, the little goose had it coming!

You want to point out to me where in his sentence involves having the guards kick the shit out of him?

 

[JackOutback]

Didn't see it, but something clearly related came up on my FB feed earlier, calling for a Royal Commission into it.

I pointed out that there is already a RC into institutional responses to child abuse, and even though the media tends to only mention it when the Catholic church is involved, it's terms of reference extend far further.


As for the 'Australia is such an international embarrassment' comment...While we're far from perfect, we'd be in the top few in most measures for racism and/or treating those less fortunate. People who think otherwise really need to get out more.

Actually, on issues such as Aboriginal health, incarceration and life expectancy, it's been well established that Australia is at or below some Third World countries.

As for Turnbull's Royal Commission, any outrage would be more believable if he wasn't turning a blind eye to murder, rape and abuse on Nauru and Manus.

 

[coerced]

Actually, on issues such as Aboriginal health, incarceration and life expectancy, it's been well established that Australia is at or below some Third World countries.

It sure is. Are things better for the indigenous compared to pre-67? Was handing responsibility to the Feds for indigenous affairs a mistake?

 

[Nikita Blue]

I would hate to have to work in a juvenile detention center trying to deal with these kids.

Your sympathy seems misplaced.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

This particular incident does not seem to have been badly handled. They are dealing with a violent, young offender who is threatening self harm and has a habit of spitting at guards.

The tear gas incidents, physical aggression and long term solitary urgently need looking into.

He is obviously threatening self-harm so that he can leave the place and go to a hospital where he will have some level of comfort (e.g. a mattress and not isolation). In case you haven't actually looked at the story, he has repeatedly been assaulted, stripped naked, etc. You're essentially saying the guard's conduct is justified in upping their punishment even though those same guards' punishment is what is driving him to threaten self-harm.

 

[kwikfix]

Your sympathy seems misplaced.

Maybe you could go up there and give these kids a kiss and a cuddle then just maybe all their anger and drug problems will go away.

 

[telsor]

Don't want to derail the thread but this is an outright lie. We are nowhere near the top per capita.

For resettlement, we are the top.

As for the broader 'accepting refugees'...Which is the first point of contact places, which are usually kept in conditions that make Nauru and Manus Island look like holiday camps (and would mean a return to thousands of deaths each year if we encouraged that), I dare say resettlement is the far more appropriate measure for us.

 

[telsor]

wrong very wrong

depends how you measures it but around 46th.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-08/fact-file-australias-refugee-intake/6759456
https://theconversation.com/factche...hrough-the-unhcr-than-any-other-country-47151
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population

Learn what the different measures mean, and how people get into each category.

For us to be higher in 'recognising refugees' would mean more arrive here and claim refugee status...meaning thousands more would die on the journey. Would we be less racist if we encouraged people to die?

We're NUMBER 1 when it comes to going to refugee camps in other countries, and bringing them safely into our country. What racist bastards that makes us...

 

[telsor]

Actually, on issues such as Aboriginal health, incarceration and life expectancy, it's been well established that Australia is at or below some Third World countries.

As for Turnbull's Royal Commission, any outrage would be more believable if he wasn't turning a blind eye to murder, rape and abuse on Nauru and Manus.

On the first...and what racist lack of effort and/or resources is involved there?


On the second...Yes, the people kept there are prone to such crimes...Not sure how that means we should let them into the country.

 

[Nikita Blue]

Maybe you could go up there and give these kids a kiss and a cuddle then just maybe all their anger and drug problems will go away.

Have you watched the program? Do you think physical and mental torture of children is the answer?

 

[telsor]

So racists behave on the same level as un-evolved primates? We already knew that.

Somebody needs to learn to read, and consider, the article before commenting.

Your immediate leap to the quoted 'us good, them bad' attack on those outside your group (and the positive social support from those 'liking' your post from others within your group) is pretty much the kind of parochial behavior seen among those primates that the article describes as the basis of racism.

So what level would that put you on?

 

[Maggie5]

This particular incident does not seem to have been badly handled. They are dealing with a violent, young offender who is threatening self harm and has a habit of spitting at guards.

The tear gas incidents, physical aggression and long term solitary urgently need looking into.

I have worked in corrections with teenagers, not sure you have any idea.
There are social workers and doctors that can deal with those problems, where were they?

 

[pazza]

Seems to me that Scullion knew. Of course he is a NT senator and minister for Indigenous Affairs. His role in this is arguably part of the reason behind the RC - that in his failure to act in the national interest. Turnbull must be fuming.

Might also help explain why the Country Liberals didn't have a great federal election this time around..the NT public voted with their feet.

 

[skilts]

Maybe you could go up there and give these kids a kiss and a cuddle then just maybe all their anger and drug problems will go away.

You're from West Australia.

 

[skilts]

Throughout the 4 Corners program, and as I write, through Brandis on radio, constant reference is made to the cause of the whole catastrophe being inadequate training of the thugs posturing as guards. Perhaps the Royal Commission might find it more productive to explore why the **** the imbeciles 'responsible' chose to employ at least four professional cage fighters as guards. To be fair, maybe these imbeciles foresaw no problems in doing this. Live punching bags, how good's that?

 

[Gough]

Maybe you could go up there and give these kids a kiss and a cuddle then just maybe all their anger and drug problems will go away.

It would be more effective than tear gassing, kids need love.

 

[cartwright]

This is a good point. I find it very odd that there needs to be a Royal Commission into what we currently know, seeing as it is one place and there is so much evidence on hand already - enough surely for a regular trial to take place surely? Is it rumoured that this is widespread? Obviously the justice system is very harsh on indigenous, so will this RC cover all that? Even Tim Wilson has come out and said it should be far wider than just juveniles.

I'm suss on Malcolm calling a Royal Commission so quickly - is there a reason anyone knows? Maybe to do with the NT being Federal jurisdiction?

Four Corners are suggesting it is widespread

 

[Reynolds Number]

This is a very complex issue where there is a problem that many do not know how to deal with.

There was an interesting FB status from an indigenous friend of mine who knows security that work there. His take.

- the treatment shown on that show is inexcusable

- there are security guards that do treat the kids well and get along very well with them and therefore do a great job at trying to rehabilitate them, so not all should be tarred with the same brush.

- there is a problem with youth crime in Darwin. People demanding that these kids get corporal punishment then cry tears over the four corners report are stupid.

- courts have no idea how to deal with them

Personally I do not condone the treatment of those prisoners and I'm glad it has been highlighted so things will change. It's like fighting a fire with petrol and it will eventually get exposed and exerberate problems.

Bit you are dealing with a major ingrained problem of aboriginal kids being born into poverty and crime and with a **** you attitude towards society. Lots of locals are fed up of them breaking into properties and stealing shit. Its a major problem in Darwin, especially in the northern suburbs and Palmerston.

There is a court system up here that has no idea on how to deal with them. As my friend pointed out you have kids being sentenced to detention for multiple crimes on a Friday then released out on Monday, kinda defeating the purpose of punishing them and they reoffend.

You have kids with a strong **** you attitude towards authorities.

However corporal punishment and bullying in jail is something supported by dumb folk.

And I hope the good guards in there are highlighted for their work as a means of emcouraging change.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Somebody needs to learn to read, and consider, the article before commenting.

Your immediate leap to the quoted 'us good, them bad' attack on those outside your group (and the positive social support from those 'liking' your post from others within your group) is pretty much the kind of parochial behavior seen among those primates that the article describes as the basis of racism.

So what level would that put you on?

This is the Scott Morrison argument - "you pointing out my bigotry is in itself a form of bigotry". Well, no, identifying abhorrent behaviour is not being bigoted/racist towards a group of people. It's like those who want to deny the freedom of others to live their lives how they want saying their rights and freedoms are being infringed upon. It's Looking Glass world logic.

 

[GreyCrow]

This is a very complex issue where there is a problem that many do not know how to deal with.

Agreed.

This is not about apportioning blame or innocence as it is a very grey area. No-one is right and no-one is wrong here. The Guards have overstepped the mark by a large stride. They should be held accountable and if found complicit , no longer work there.

One of the difficulties when faced with vision like this is to step away and look at the overall picture. If everyone thinks these young people are little darlings then think again. Yes many have anger issues , many have started life in the worst possible place and many have also been pigeonholed by the guards.

Yet if you make it to detention then there are certain behavioural standards to adhere to. If you don't meet these standards then there is punishment. Mostly isolation cells which are basic concrete and mats. Many people take this opportunity to have a time out . Yet many continue to fight even this. From the transcript , Voller made it very clear he was going to fight every inch of the way , to the extent of self harm. Should the guards put him back into the concrete room and allow him to run his head into the wall ? Or should they restrain him until the emotion is released. Neither option is viable.

I don't have any answers , apart from the one that doesn't start with the abuse of anyone.

 

[telsor]

This is the Scott Morrison argument - "you pointing out my bigotry is in itself a form of bigotry". Well, no, identifying abhorrent behaviour is not being bigoted/racist towards a group of people. It's like those who want to deny the freedom of others to live their lives how they want saying their rights and freedoms are being infringed upon. It's Looking Glass world logic.

So rather than respond to my point, you try and deflect.

Are you unable to respond?

 

[little graham]

And I hope the good guards in there are highlighted for their work as a means of emcouraging change.

Most of your post was demented rubbish, but this bit stood out. Everyone who knows what is going on and chooses to continue to work for the same government is gutter trash. You don't turn a blind eye to what is going on, only scum do that.

How many times in your post did you go on about kids committing crimes and how the justice system lets everyone down, you're deflecting blame. sounds like you work there. Only scum make excuses for whats going on.

 

[little graham]

Perhaps the Royal Commission might find it more productive to explore why the **** the imbeciles 'responsible' chose to employ at least four professional cage fighters as guards. To be fair, maybe these imbeciles foresaw no problems in doing this. Live punching bags, how good's that?

And NSW just banned greyhound racing.

 

[little graham]

I don't have any answers , apart from the one that doesn't start with the abuse of anyone.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

This is a very complex issue where there is a problem that many do not know how to deal with.

There was an interesting FB status from an indigenous friend of mine who knows security that work there. His take.

- the treatment shown on that show is inexcusable

- there are security guards that do treat the kids well and get along very well with them and therefore do a great job at trying to rehabilitate them, so not all should be tarred with the same brush.

- there is a problem with youth crime in Darwin. People demanding that these kids get corporal punishment then cry tears over the four corners report are stupid.

- courts have no idea how to deal with them

Personally I do not condone the treatment of those prisoners and I'm glad it has been highlighted so things will change. It's like fighting a fire with petrol and it will eventually get exposed and exerberate problems.

Bit you are dealing with a major ingrained problem of aboriginal kids being born into poverty and crime and with a **** you attitude towards society. Lots of locals are fed up of them breaking into properties and stealing shit. Its a major problem in Darwin, especially in the northern suburbs and Palmerston.

There is a court system up here that has no idea on how to deal with them. As my friend pointed out you have kids being sentenced to detention for multiple crimes on a Friday then released out on Monday, kinda defeating the purpose of punishing them and they reoffend.

You have kids with a strong **** you attitude towards authorities.

However corporal punishment and bullying in jail is something supported by dumb folk.

And I hope the good guards in there are highlighted for their work as a means of emcouraging change.

That "strong **** you attitude" is highly correlated to institutional and direct racism. Everything those guards did has just ensured another 25 years of "strong **** you attitude". You don't have to know many cops or many young people to hear how the wrong thing happens every now and again in every community - how we respond to those wrong things is indicative. 'Tough on crime' approaches aren't going to stop kids from testing the limits.