Don Dale Centre videos on 4 corners: treatment of children in custody (Northern Territory)

[GreyCrow]

Narrator had little to do with what my eyes saw.
Maybe you looked away or can't imagine being two weeks in confinement with very little to do.

Maybe I am different , because I can live inside my head for as long as possible.

My thought process is this.
1. Does the child/person deserve to be held in custody?
2. Does the institution have rules regarding behavior?
3. Did the person breach those rules?
4. Is the punishment suitable for the breach?
5. Are there alternatives that don't impact on the safe running of the institution?

Now you say confinement. I assume this is actually solitary confinement? If so then it will be a 23 hr lockdown with 1 hour given to exercise outside. I don't see anything dramatic about that

 

[Taylor]

How do you handle young men/children/man sized children with violent behavior when the root cause came from how they came into the world and how they were raised?

It really isn't fair and I don't think there is ever a point to give up trying but the expectations of what would constitute success might need to be lowered.

 

[Maggie5]

Maybe I am different , because I can live inside my head for as long as possible.

My thought process is this.
1. Does the child/person deserve to be held in custody?
2. Does the institution have rules regarding behavior?
3. Did the person breach those rules?
4. Is the punishment suitable for the breach?
5. Are there alternatives that don't impact on the safe running of the institution?

Now you say confinement. I assume this is actually solitary confinement? If so then it will be a 23 hr lockdown with 1 hour given to exercise outside. I don't see anything dramatic about that

Did you watch the program?
Maybe you need to step out of your head as it seems you can't see there is a problem.

 

[Maggie5]

Not sure how Giles and Turnbull can be shocked as according to these reports, Giles was in government in 2014 (Human Rights report October 2014) and Turnbull (if not him then his Minister) was made aware in the October 2015 report by Northern Territory's children's commissioner.
http://hrlc.org.au/joint-statement-...d-enough-for-territorys-most-vulnerable-kids/
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/juven...tralia-is-falling-behind-20150929-gjxgzu.html
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...um-security-jail-as-new-facility-is-ruled-out

 

[Maggie5]

How do you handle young men/children/man sized children with violent behavior when the root cause came from how they came into the world and how they were raised?

It really isn't fair and I don't think there is ever a point to give up trying but the expectations of what would constitute success might need to be lowered.

Which of the children in the ABC report do you consider to be man sized?

 

[GreyCrow]

Did you watch the program?
Maybe you need to step out of your head as it seems you can't see there is a problem.

And maybe you need to step into the real world where people are attacked on a daily basis.

Go back to my 1st post where I said the guards actions need to be examined and charged if necessary. I know there is a problem. I figure I am one of the few who is willing to see it from both sides.

 

[GreyCrow]

How do you handle young men/children/man sized children with violent behavior when the root cause came from how they came into the world and how they were raised?

It really isn't fair and I don't think there is ever a point to give up trying but the expectations of what would constitute success might need to be lowered.

It is a conundrum. Unfortunately, coupled with the hormonal angst raging through their bodies , they are victims of an upbringing in which they have no other role pattern but to strike out. You just have to hope you can find that 1 thing to turn them around. Unfortunately the system in place makes that hard.

In SA the Rack em pack em Stack em mentality meant that over 30% of prisoners re-committed more offences. Australia wide this figure was 60% in 2011

About 60 per cent of those in custody in Australia have been imprisoned before. Reoffending behaviour or recidivism can be influenced by many factors including poor education and employment histories, mental illness and bad physical health, as well as drug and alcohol misuse.

 

[Taylor]

Which of the children in the ABC report do you consider to be man sized?

I wasn't isolating the comment to just that single symptom expression of a centre.

 

[Maggie5]

And maybe you need to step into the real world where people are attacked on a daily basis.

Go back to my 1st post where I said the guards actions need to be examined and charged if necessary. I know there is a problem. I figure I am one of the few who is willing to see it from both sides.

I am quite aware of people being attacked on a daily basis, what I am not sure about is how many first offenders receive time in detention especially if they are white.

 

[Maggie5]

I wasn't isolating the comment to just that single symptom expression of a centre.

Even so, looking at the 10 to 18 y o category in the NT, I wouldn't categorize them like that at all.

 

[Taylor]

Even so, looking at the 10 to 18 y o category in the NT, I wouldn't categorize them like that at all.

I figured "young men/children/man sized children" covered all possibilities.

 

[Chief]

And maybe you need to step into the real world where people are attacked on a daily basis.

Go back to my 1st post where I said the guards actions need to be examined and charged if necessary. I know there is a problem. I figure I am one of the few who is willing to see it from both sides.

The lone voice, crying out in the angry mob. Battling against a world gone mad.

It will make a great movie.

 

[Chief]

I've come around to the theory of treating crime in the style of medical quarantine.

Retributive justice simply does not work.

 

[Taylor]

There is talk of introducing mandatory state delivered drug rehabilitation, based off family referral or medical interventions.

So much we could debate on that too.

 

[skilts]

It is a conundrum. Unfortunately, coupled with the hormonal angst raging through their bodies , they are victims of an upbringing in which they have no other role pattern but to strike out. You just have to hope you can find that 1 thing to turn them around. Unfortunately the system in place makes that hard.

In SA the Rack em pack em Stack em mentality meant that over 30% of prisoners re-committed more offences. Australia wide this figure was 60% in 2011

About 60 per cent of those in custody in Australia have been imprisoned before. Reoffending behaviour or recidivism can be influenced by many factors including poor education and employment histories, mental illness and bad physical health, as well as drug and alcohol misuse.

FYI, the recidivism rates you quote here have remained unaltered for the past 50 years. A little-known statistic is that 95% of those convicted of murder have never been convicted of a felony before they went up for murder. All I'm saying is that the 'OMG, what have we come to' crowd have NFI what they're talking about.

Do you think 10 - 14 year-old children should be gassed, and assaulted by professional prize fighters?

 

[GreyCrow]

Do you think 10 - 14 year-old children should be gassed, and assaulted by professional prize fighters?

No

 

[skilts]

How do you handle young men/children/man sized children with violent behavior when the root cause came from how they came into the world and how they were raised?

It really isn't fair and I don't think there is ever a point to give up trying but the expectations of what would constitute success might need to be lowered.

Belting shit out of them is certainly an option, for some.

 

[coerced]

I've come around to the theory of treating crime in the style of medical quarantine.

Retributive justice simply does not work.

What do you mean by quarantine? Or do you mean triage?

I don't see any point in locking up kids for anything except the very worst offences (extreme violence etc).

If they're thieves or similar then sending them to jail is probably the worst thing you could do.

And I do realise there might be recidivism risks etc, but we have to find a better way, because jail is the worst option for relatively minor crimes.

 

[skilts]

No

Then, therein lies the systemic problem. That these mothers carried out these violent assaults with full knowledge they were being filmed is indicative of their hubris. I'm betting they got their pornographic jollies from looking back at the videos of their misdeeds. The fault in this lies with the people who appointed these thugs as guardians of OUR children. Obviously, there would be no point in appealing to the perpetrators' sense of what is right. Professional fighters go into attack mode, with an utter disregard for what is appropriate. A reasoned and appropriate response to what they see as an attack on their seemingly boundless and unfettered control of their subjects is not within their capabilities, because they are manifestly unsuited to their jobs.

 

[Reynolds Number]

The sickening footage we saw on Four Corners on Monday evening has been around for years and it’s more than a coincidence that the ABC decided to release the story on the eve of the NT elections where the current Country Liberal Party under Adam Giles is already in deep shit. Well done ABC, your political slip is still showing.

If anything they will save seats because of it.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

What do you mean by quarantine? Or do you mean triage?

I don't see any point in locking up kids for anything except the very worst offences (extreme violence etc).

If they're thieves or similar then sending them to jail is probably the worst thing you could do.

And I do realise there might be recidivism risks etc, but we have to find a better way, because jail is the worst option for relatively minor crimes.

That's not a bad idea. Why not have them tagged? Like a GPS type thing, so they go on living life the normal way, but don't have 'freedom' as they are monitored, and of course they'd be discouraged from committing crimes with the tracking. Additionally their case worker could get an idea of what they're spending their time doing, if they're hanging with the wrong crowds, etc.

I'm sure there's something obvious I'm missing here which will make it get cut down as an idea (and of course a lot of people don't like the idea of 'big brother' government ideas - e.g. vulnerable kids with a criminal record being able to be tracked would be super-awful if someone wanted to be nefarious, but you could have work arounds possible - data only kept on device and uploaded upon daily check-in at the cop shop...), but prisons being a Uni for Crime is what we have to stop.

 

[JackOutback]

It boggles my mind that anyone could be trying to justify/explain these actions. When I showed my wife the pic of the restrained boy and told her where it was from, she was immediately disgusted, visibly so. That is a human response

No matter what the boys have done, torture and abuse is not the answer. I honestly can't believe this is an argument.

 

[nicky]

It boggles my mind that anyone could be trying to justify/explain these actions. When I showed my wife the pic of the restrained boy and told her where it was from, she was immediately disgusted, visibly so. That is a human response

No matter what the boys have done, torture and abuse is not the answer. I honestly can't believe this is an argument.

I think the majority of people agree with you. Most people feel shocked and disgusted at cage fighters abusing children.

You're always going to get some people who don't feel empathy for these kids but that is reflective of the number of narcissists and sociopaths in the population. You can't make people feel empathy when they don't have the capacity for it.

 

[hardon]

one thing that has surprised me about this whole situation is that people seem genuinely surprised about what goes on in these places. i assume they are genuine in their surprise, but I could be wrong.

but are people really surprised that there are 'spit hoods' for use on people that spit on other people? and that they are used? or that there are chairs with restraints, for people that seemingly need restraining? and that people actually get restrained in them? seemingly the NT chief minister is surprised because he has banned them now, i think. how did people imagine young criminals were handled?

 

[skilts]

If anything they will save seats because of it.

one thing that has surprised me about this whole situation is that people seem genuinely surprised about what goes on in these places. i assume they are genuine in their surprise, but I could be wrong.

but are people really surprised that there are 'spit hoods' for use on people that spit on other people? and that they are used? or that there are chairs with restraints, for people that seemingly need restraining? and that people actually get restrained in them? seemingly the NT chief minister is surprised because he has banned them now, i think. how did people imagine young criminals were handled?

To say that he was surprised is disingenuous on his part, given he instituted that method of 'restraint'. The man is a puppet, who responded in a way he thought would mollify the redneck, lora norder element within his constituency. Yet another argument against democracy. It turns politicians into knee-jerk populists. The misconception underlying all systems of government is that they work, when, in fact, there is no 'system' in any of it.

The only measure of success in politics is whether voters can be convinced that such a 'system' exists, and can be maintained by the respective candidates. It is in this way that governments are elected. It has distinct parallels in economics - another preposterous posit. Aristotle was a bullshit artist on this, and many other aspects of human existence. He has a lot to answer for. Either that, or he has been subsequently grossly misinterpreted, which is equally likely.