Mega Thread Don's Party - The future is so bright, we need some pizza and a piss-up

[Scorpus]

By this measurement, there are 85 teams out of 90 that failed during this time-span.

It depends what your goals are.

If the goal is "build a team that will contend in the future" like Carlton, Brisbane, etc. then winning more games and looking in the right direction won't be a fail.

If the goal is to win the flag in that year and be a genuine contender, we have failed for the last 5 years

 

[The Karma Bus]

Prrops to Fagan for responding to my email about providing us with an elite football department. Some of the cliff notes:

- This is the group that got us a minor premiership in 2017.
- There is no lack of ruthlessness.
- We spends 100% of soft caps.
- Continuing to review.

This is the group that got us a minor premiership?Really Fagan?

Must have been Ben Hart with a David Teague mask on making our forward line purr in 2017. And Godden wasn't really at the Eagles then, we have mastered cloning.

Not to mention failure since then and no signs of that righting itself. Also are we here to win premiership's? Or maybe we should still worship the Sando spike days.. And that 2005 minor premiership meant so much down the track too. Fmd.

 

[Thetrader15]

You only have to hear Matt and Brad when they are interview and asked about planning for the current games, it’s always nah we haven’t looked at it yet or we’ll just back our structure.
Once when it was going to be a wet game they said they hadn’t done any practice in the wet.
Doesn’t seem like much planning outside their game plan gets done.

Screams a lack of flexibility to me...and that was what Don said he wanted when he joined the club. Oh, he was talking about the players, not the coaches. My mistake

 

[Thetrader15]

Prrops to Fagan for responding to my email about providing us with an elite football department. Some of the cliff notes:

- This is the group that got us a minor premiership in 2017.
- There is no lack of ruthlessness.
- We spends 100% of soft caps.
- Continuing to review.

It's also the group that got us to 12th last year, which appears the more relevant result.

There used to be a saying back in the day when I was playing. What was it again?

"You're only as good as your last performance." Nah, that's not it.

"You're only as good as your best performance 2 years ago". That's the one!

FMD

 

[SugarShane]

Prrops to Fagan for responding to my email about providing us with an elite football department. Some of the cliff notes:

- This is the group that got us a minor premiership in 2017.
- There is no lack of ruthlessness.
- We spends 100% of soft caps.
- Continuing to review.

- Scott Stevens kicked 6 goals in a final.

 

[Thetrader15]

It depends what your goals are.

If the goal is "build a team that will contend in the future" like Carlton, Brisbane, etc. then winning more games and looking in the right direction won't be a fail.

If the goal is to win the flag in that year and be a genuine contender, we have failed for the last 5 years

Spot on. If we want to be a team that just plays finals and never bottoms out, great, we are going about it the right way.

If we are a team that wants to have a serious push for a flag, well, we know how that's gone for the last 20 years.

 

[phill1795]

The sad thing is we have become everything we worked so hard during 2014-15 to build a culture where tough calls could be made. Now fast forward 4-5 years on and we have yet again became a soft club that can't make tough calls with players performing poorly and remaining in the side no matter what. As well as the best football department in the Afl crap by Fagan yet we have Burton, Godden, Camporeale and Hart in our coaching panel. That is so far of the best football department that it is not even funny, never knew Fagan was a comedian, honestly this club will continue to disappoint if changes aren't made. If you are a true supporter you will agree as well.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Karma Bus]

It's also the group that got us to 12th last year, which appears the more relevant result.

There used to be a saying back in the day when I was playing. What was it again?

"You're only as good as your last performance." Nah, that's not it.

"You're only as good as your best performance 2 years ago". That's the one!

FMD

It just reeks of what they get labelled with. Complacent, back it in over and over, just need to be better, it will turn. They have just expected it to "happen". Not looking to improve and make it happen.

It's Sando all over again with his "we were 1 kick away from a Grand Final" to excuse why all will be ok and nothing much needs to change and improve. As above, it's Craig with Scott Steven's kicked 6 goals in a final once. Also as is said, the rest of the competition doesn't stand still.

 

[Thetrader15]

So Ben Hart says "No one gets automatic selection". Can we drop Ben for a week and then bring in the more experienced Heath Younie for a game as forward coach? Now that would be breaking new ground and would be "performance driven"

 

[CrowBloke]

We lack randomness and flair.

Flair, most definitely.
In this thread and others many posters have speculated about the second-half fades in the 3 post-bye losses.
Geelong, PA and Essendon ran us out of those games. After PA had kicked 3 or 4 goals to gain ascendancy and momentum, I saw Motlop give off a handball then hare off forward with three of his mates in a rugby-type line, to overlap and spread.
The Crows used to do that way, way, way back in 2017 (seems so long ago now ).

I don't think it's about fitness. I reckon it's about commitment, enthusiasm and willingness to run, and chase. I'd speculate further that our blokes don't do that because:
--- it doesn't matter. They didn't make the Finals last year and nothing changed, not Coaching staff, not game plan, not selection policy.
--- they've stopped caring. They may/may not make Finals this year. They're on contract, getting paid and for the most part selected, regardless of performance.

Unaccountable and complacent.

 

[Smoooothy]

Scott Hodges

he got traded to port

 

[Smoooothy]

Failed in 2015

very harsh - the coach was murdered halfway through the year, and we won a final against the odds

 

[CrowBloke]

I understand that, I just want to see CrowBloke apply his simplistic rationale to a much loved former employee of our club.

I'll bite.
What "simplistic rationale" is that (I've missed a few pages, am away Interstate on biz), and which much loved former employee, please?

 

[Tex200]

very harsh - the coach was murdered halfway through the year, and we won a final against the odds

Yeah that’s a fair call - my apologies I’ll withdraw that.

 

[CrowBloke]

Oh, wait, I see:

Tell us how s**t Dean Bailey was then.

I was referring to the bunch we have now (especially Hart and the Crows' barnacle, Camporeale) who have failed in my opinion.
I didn't mention Dean Bailey, and it didn't apply to Dean Bailey. What's got you so narky?

 

[Thetrader15]

Flair, most definitely.
In this thread and others many posters have speculated about the second-half fades in the 3 post-bye losses.
Geelong, PA and Essendon ran us out of those games. After PA had kicked 3 or 4 goals to gain ascendancy and momentum, I saw Motlop give off a handball then hare off forward with three of his mates in a rugby-type line, to overlap and spread.
The Crows used to do that way, way, way back in 2017 (seems so long ago now ).

I don't think it's about fitness. I reckon it's about commitment, enthusiasm and willingness to run, and chase. I'd speculate further that our blokes don't do that because:
--- it doesn't matter. They didn't make the Finals last year and nothing changed, not Coaching staff, not game plan, not selection policy.
--- they've stopped caring. They may/may not make Finals this year. They're on contract, getting paid and for the most part selected, regardless of performance.

Unaccountable and complacent.

Right on the money.

You can see heaps of examples of this. Nick Reiwoldt showed one a couple of weeks ago, I posted one yesterday of when McGrath got a goal in the 3rd after Milera stopped running with him, the list goes on.

I can't possibly be important to the coach otherwise players would do it (or be dropped for not doing it ). The only person I have seen run hard for over 100m with their opponent was Brad Crouch during Friday night's game. They didn't get the ball, but that's exactly what needed to be done. No surprise he's had 50% more tackles than any crow over the last 4 weeks. It's about effort.

Brad Crouch: 33
Greenwood: 22
ROB: 21
Sloane: 20
Matt Crouch: 14
Murphy: 13
Smith: 10

 

[AFC3000]

I believe strongly in going after one of the sacked coaches, huge experience and were rated as one of the very best assistant coaches only a couple of years ago.

I know Voss was an assistant at the Eagles for a year or two but did he get the Brisbane job because of how well he performed there, or because Michael Voss = Brisbane at the time.

Heres the thing, we keep bringing in inexperienced or not overly impressive AFL assistant coaches, these guys then learn everything they need to know about coaching the Crows way, Campo probably wrote the manual.

Where's the guy who saw what Clarko does in the lead up to a Grand Final week, the guy who has been at a club that has gone from the bottom to the top, the guy who has been at a club that constantly beats us and knows where we go wrong, every time.

Someone who when the players are not trusting the game plan, can say trust me, we know what we are doing, when I was at X we went through the same thing and I can see this group following a similar path.

We have Campo who finished 5, 5 and 5 for no finals wins as an assistant at Essendon.

Ben Hart who was here for our 2008-11 glory years as well as saw Collingwood fall from 4 to 6 to 11 to 12 to 12 with a finals win in his first year.

Mattner's 2 years at Sydney were decent, but he was a first-time Assistant there.

So our total outside experience, in support of a first-time senior coach is 3 years at Essendon, 5 years at Collingwood and 2 at Sydney. 10 combined years and 3 combined finals wins.

Now, this might happen across the league, but it's not the system a big club should put around an inexperienced senior coach. Even Clarkson at the Hawks isn't above having a Scott Burns or Brett Ratten support him. Don Pyke isn't Allistair Clarkson and our 2008-18 "learnings" shouldn't be stuff that needs to be passed down to every newbie assistant coach we bring in because they've not experienced more success elsewhere.

And how do we attract a Ratten or Burns if the AFL coaching pathway through Adelaide is once you get stuck in Adelaide, you're at Adelaide for life. We should be pumping up the role we played in Teagues elevation to caretake coach, we should be pushing out guys like Campo who might very well be a decent assistant to dream jobs in Victoria as soon as they've peaked with us.

Become a pathway for good assistant coaches to become great coaches, a couple of years with Pyke, Birdman, Campo and Hart isn't the stuff to attract people rated as future senior coaches.

 

[thebirdman 24]

It's also the group that got us to 12th last year, which appears the more relevant result.

There used to be a saying back in the day when I was playing. What was it again?

"You're only as good as your last performance." Nah, that's not it.

"You're only as good as your best performance 2 years ago". That's the one!

FMD

That was the focus of my response and that 2017 was an abberation rather than the standard.

 

[Crowboto]

Way off the mark. You must be that guy that called up fiveaa the other week after a loss calling Pyke Neil Pyke and you sounded clueless on the radio to. The worse coach we have had. I dont think so.

In order

Malcolm Blight
Don Pyke
Neil Craig
Graham Cornes
Brenton Sanderson
Robert Shaw

After Malcolm Blight that list sure does suck a lemon.

 

[Crowboto]

Narrator: Everyone got selected again

“No-one gets automatic selection,” *




*Excluding David Mackay

 

[Thetrader15]

“No-one gets automatic selection,” *




*Excluding David Mackay

and Eddie Betts

 

[Thetrader15]

I believe strongly in going after one of the sacked coaches, huge experience and were rated as one of the very best assistant coaches only a couple of years ago.

I know Voss was an assistant at the Eagles for a year or two but did he get the Brisbane job because of how well he performed there, or because Michael Voss = Brisbane at the time.

Heres the thing, we keep bringing in inexperienced or not overly impressive AFL assistant coaches, these guys then learn everything they need to know about coaching the Crows way, Campo probably wrote the manual.

Where's the guy who saw what Clarko does in the lead up to a Grand Final week, the guy who has been at a club that has gone from the bottom to the top, the guy who has been at a club that constantly beats us and knows where we go wrong, every time.

Someone who when the players are not trusting the game plan, can say trust me, we know what we are doing, when I was at X we went through the same thing and I can see this group following a similar path.

We have Campo who finished 5, 5 and 5 for no finals wins as an assistant at Essendon.

Ben Hart who was here for our 2008-11 glory years as well as saw Collingwood fall from 4 to 6 to 11 to 12 to 12 with a finals win in his first year.

Mattner's 2 years at Sydney were decent, but he was a first-time Assistant there.

So our total outside experience, in support of a first-time senior coach is 3 years at Essendon, 5 years at Collingwood and 2 at Sydney. 10 combined years and 3 combined finals wins.

Now, this might happen across the league, but it's not the system a big club should put around an inexperienced senior coach. Even Clarkson at the Hawks isn't above having a Scott Burns or Brett Ratten support him. Don Pyke isn't Allistair Clarkson and our 2008-18 "learnings" shouldn't be stuff that needs to be passed down to every newbie assistant coach we bring in because they've not experienced more success elsewhere.

And how do we attract a Ratten or Burns if the AFL coaching pathway through Adelaide is once you get stuck in Adelaide, you're at Adelaide for life. We should be pumping up the role we played in Teagues elevation to caretake coach, we should be pushing out guys like Campo who might very well be a decent assistant to dream jobs in Victoria as soon as they've peaked with us.

Become a pathway for good assistant coaches to become great coaches, a couple of years with Pyke, Birdman, Campo and Hart isn't the stuff to attract people rated as future senior coaches.

If we just do some quick stats on Ben Hart's career as an assistant coach:

Collingwood
2010: 17w - 1d - 4l
2011: 20w - 2l
Ben Hart joins
2012: 16w - 6l
2013: 14w - 8l
2014: 11w - 1l
2015: 10w - 12l
2016: 9w - 13l:
2017: Crows 15w - 6l (Hart at 5AA)
Ben Hart joins:
2018: 12w - 10l
2019: 9w - 8l (currently)

Sure, he's not the senior coach, but you can hardly say he's one of those guys that success seems to follow.

 

[Deaneus!]

If we just do some quick stats on Ben Hart's career as an assistant coach:

Collingwood
2010: 17w - 1d - 4l
2011: 20w - 2l
Ben Hart joins
2012: 16w - 6l
2013: 14w - 8l
2014: 11w - 1l
2015: 10w - 12l
2016: 9w - 13l:
2017: Crows 15w - 6l (Hart at 5AA)
Ben Hart joins:
2018: 12w - 10l
2019: 9w - 8l (currently)

Sure, he's not the senior coach, but you can hardly say he's one of those guys that success seems to follow.

FSM, when you put it like that, everywhere he goes gets steadily worse!

 

[AFC3000]

If we just do some quick stats on Ben Hart's career as an assistant coach:

Collingwood
2010: 17w - 1d - 4l
2011: 20w - 2l
Ben Hart joins
2012: 16w - 6l
2013: 14w - 8l
2014: 11w - 1l
2015: 10w - 12l
2016: 9w - 13l:
2017: Crows 15w - 6l (Hart at 5AA)
Ben Hart joins:
2018: 12w - 10l
2019: 9w - 8l (currently)

Sure, he's not the senior coach, but you can hardly say he's one of those guys that success seems to follow.

Seems 100% of teams get progressively worse the longer he's at a club.

 

[MRB37]

Spot on. Goodwin and Edwards wouldn't have played. Kane Johnson up against Robert Harvey? No chance.

We'd have still been putting Simon Tregenza, Jason McCartney and Barry Standfield out there and been eliminated weeks beforehand.

Interestingly, the clean out at the end of 1996 gets mentioned a lot - A Jarman, McGuiness and McDermott.

But that was only half of it. I reckon these list cloggers got shown the door too at the same time: Greg Anderson, Matthew Kluzek, Sean Tasker, Wayne Weidemann, Nick Pesch, Scott Hodges, Jonathon Ross. I might be wrong on some of these but it certainly felt like the list was refreshed.

Spots were opened up and it energised everyone.

Remember when we dropped Jake Lever for the finals in 2015 because they were so terrified of putting a rookie defender out there.