Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets *Bump an old thread*

[Amber Guzzler]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

North have refused to wear an away jumper for a home game ever again, so the AFL (Collingwoods lap dog) will not draw us a home game v the filth in order to avoid eddie whining.

Maybe that's why your club is folding, Because you don't get a home game against us.

 

[YouIdiot]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Collingwood games at MCG: 14. Of those 14, games against mutual MCG inhabitants (Melbourne, Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and Richmond): 9. Being very very generous not including the North Melbourne, Geelong and St Kilda games (4).

For the sake of splitting hairs, you could (if you were so inclined) argue Collingwood have the home ground advantage, just, in 4 of those games over other Vic sides.

Adelaide is the only interstate side Collingwood play at the MCG.

Then there are 2 games against the Dogs at Ethiad, one against the Saints and one against WCE (4). And if you are going to play the splitting hair game, 3 of these games offer about as much disadvantage as the advantage the pies get in 4 of the MCG games.

Then there are 4 interstate trips.

From the above, Collingwood get a clear home ground advantage in TWO games.

So depending on how much of a b1tch you are, you could argue either of the following:

Collingwood have 2 clear home ground advantage matches, 9 neutrals, 4 slightly better than neutrals, 3 slightly worse than neutrals, and 4 clear away games.

or

2 clear home games, 16 neutrals, and 4 clear away games.

Either way, twice as many clear disadvantage home ground games as clear advantage home ground games.

4/6 games where there can be a home state advantage, the pies give it up. Every year.

Every other game is played against teams from the same state on grounds that are neutral.

I cannot fathom how anyone can pick it apart, rubbish conspiracy theories a la 'your interstate matches are against sides that traveled the week before' aside (I wonder how often that is the case given they generally travel every second week .

Do people actually think before they collectively sook? I'd be bloody embarrassed to carry on the way some football supporters do. Bloody embarrassed.

 

[morgoth]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

come back and talk to me when you have demolished the grand finalists.

Come back and talk to us when you have beaten the top of the ladder side.

 

[PowerForGood]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Collingwood games at MCG: 14. Of those 14, games against mutual MCG inhabitants (Melbourne, Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and Richmond): 9. Being very very generous not including the North Melbourne, Geelong and St Kilda games (4).

For the sake of splitting hairs, you could (if you were so inclined) argue Collingwood have the home ground advantage, just, in 4 of those games over other Vic sides.

Adelaide is the only interstate side Collingwood play at the MCG.

Then there are 2 games against the Dogs at Ethiad, one against the Saints and one against WCE (4). And if you are going to play the splitting hair game, 3 of these games offer about as much disadvantage as the advantage the pies get in 4 of the MCG games.

Then there are 4 interstate trips.

From the above, Collingwood get a clear home ground advantage in TWO games.

So depending on how much of a b1tch you are, you could argue either of the following:

Collingwood have 2 clear home ground advantage matches, 9 neutrals, 4 slightly better than neutrals, 3 slightly worse than neutrals, and 4 clear away games.

or

2 clear home games, 16 neutrals, and 4 clear away games.

Either way, twice as many clear disadvantage home ground games as clear advantage home ground games.

4/6 games where there can be a home state advantage, the pies give it up. Every year.

Every other game is played against teams from the same state on grounds that are neutral.

I cannot fathom how anyone can pick it apart, rubbish conspiracy theories a la 'your interstate matches are against sides that traveled the week before' aside (I wonder how often that is the case given they generally travel every second week .

Do people actually think before they collectively sook? I'd be bloody embarrassed to carry on the way some football supporters do. Bloody embarrassed.

For all of this, you forget one pretty simple concept.

If you are the "best" team in the comp and from Melbourne and therefore outplay your Melbourne-based opponents through a season, then you get 18 wins, as there is no travel complications.

If you are the "best" team in the comp and not from Melbourne, you need to play 10-11 games on the road with travel complicating the equation.

This is why teams like Essendon 2000 and St Kilda 2009 H&A seasons were so good, and why the best WC / Bris / Port Adel seasons would never hit 21-1 or 20-2 heights.

The reverse is also true, that crap Melbourne based teams tend to lose more games in a year than crap non-Melbourne teams, as the non-Melbourne teams tend to steal some of their 10-11 games at home with interstate advantage.

The travel factors at the moment mean that it is "easier" for Melbourne-based teams to finish top 4 / bottom 4, and "easier" for non-Melbourne-based teams to finish in positions 5-8 and 9-12.

And it then follows that if the current schedule favours the Melbourne teams getting top 4 status, then there are more finals "at home", and combined with the guaranteed Grand Final "at home", the H&A system essentially is biased towards Melbourne-based teams.

What to do about it? Sweet FA, as the inequity is an outcome of the location of the teams, and nothing to do with deliberate bias. All the AFL needs to do is ensure that clubs travel in accordance with what they should be travelling. And Collingwood clearly do not.

 

[morgoth]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

For all of this, you forget one pretty simple concept.

If you are the "best" team in the comp and from Melbourne and therefore outplay your Melbourne-based opponents through a season, then you get 18 wins, as there is no travel complications.

If you are the "best" team in the comp and not from Melbourne, you need to play 10-11 games on the road with travel complicating the equation.

This is why teams like Essendon 2000 and St Kilda 2009 H&A seasons were so good, and why the best WC / Bris / Port Adel seasons would never hit 21-1 or 20-2 heights.

The reverse is also true, that crap Melbourne based teams tend to lose more games in a year than crap non-Melbourne teams, as the non-Melbourne teams tend to steal some of their 10-11 games at home with interstate advantage.

The travel factors at the moment mean that it is "easier" for Melbourne-based teams to finish top 4 / bottom 4, and "easier" for non-Melbourne-based teams to finish in positions 5-8 and 9-12.

And it then follows that if the current schedule favours the Melbourne teams getting top 4 status, then there are more finals "at home", and combined with the guaranteed Grand Final "at home", the H&A system essentially is biased towards Melbourne-based teams.

What to do about it? Sweet FA, as the inequity is an outcome of the location of the teams, and nothing to do with deliberate bias. All the AFL needs to do is ensure that clubs travel in accordance with what they should be travelling. And Collingwood clearly do not.

If it were not for Collingwood interstate sides would still have to play prelims at the G rather than at home (if they had won the right). So you complain that the G demanded more Pies games so flogs like Port could have home prelims?

Can't have your cake and eat it. Go back to the SANFL if you don't like travel.

 

[Cyclops]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

... All the AFL needs to do is ensure that clubs travel in accordance with what they should be travelling. And Collingwood clearly do not.

You make a very good case, pretty much the only sensible one in this sandy-vagina'd thread. Brisbane actually have to travel? Shock horror! Next he'll discover Docklands is smaller than the MCG, meaning St Kilda run less during games than Collingwood! OMG call UNICEF or something.

Yes the draw is rigged. Its rigged to pay the bills. You nominate the 3 or 4 clubs to die to pay for a fair draw and sort it out.

We have been paying for the whole damn show since this league was founded. And we'll keep on paying for it.

When a North supporter starts whining about Friday night footy they have a point: it was a great idea they helped to pioneer but sadly the failure of their fans to reproduce has made them unviable as a drawcard. The micro-crowd Hawks of the 80's parleyed their success into a crowd spike a decade later, but North have failed to do that with the power side of the 90's.

However if they want to bitch about playing us once they should take it up with their president who decided it would be cute to dishonour a handshake deal his club had with ours. Smart playa that Brayshaw.

Richmond and Hawthorn have tried similar scheduling crap with us too (regarding round one fixtures). All the poor clubs want a piece of us here in Melbourne, and we're generous , but don't bite the hand.

I really hope we can prop all of them up but if they want draw integrity, they should start picking out their own coffins.

Personally I'd love to play Port more often, decent hardworking club no-one has done any favours to: if anyone's going to survive the cull let it be Port.

 

[PowerForGood]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

If it were not for Collingwood interstate sides would still have to play prelims at the G rather than at home (if they had won the right). So you complain that the G demanded more Pies games so flogs like Port could have home prelims?

Can't have your cake and eat it. Go back to the SANFL if you don't like travel.

So let me get the gist of your response correct - there was an inequity in the draw that favoured Melbourne teams in general, so let's fix that by just limiting the favouritism to one team, Collingwood.

Yeah, that's great, thanks.

 

[morgoth]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

So let me get the gist of your response correct - there was an inequity in the draw that favoured Melbourne teams in general, so let's fix that by just limiting the favouritism to one team, Collingwood.

Yeah, that's great, thanks.

Yeah to fix an inequity, they created another slight one to stop the interstate clubs whingeing. We get 11 home games and evey Vic club requests a home game against us for the gate. The only request we make is Anzac day and Q Bday (where we do not get any of the gate as it is a permanent Melbourne home game). The rest is up to the AFL.

We do not need to sell home games and if you compare our draw to Essendon and Carlton you will find they are almost the same.

But never let the facts get in the way of a rant.

PS whats with the garbage bag liners over the seats when you play at home?

 

[YouIdiot]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

What to do about it? Sweet FA, as the inequity is an outcome of the location of the teams, and nothing to do with deliberate bias.

Exactly. Why then do people bother bringing things in to the argument that are purely a consequence of geography?

And I agree re your pro's and con's of being a Vic side. It goes in cycles, take the upper edge when you can because we all get a turn being a whipping boy playing top Vic sides on their home grounds in over half our matches.

All the AFL needs to do is ensure that clubs travel in accordance with what they should be travelling. And Collingwood clearly do not.

6 interstate sides. 11 home games each. 11 / 15 X 6 = 4.4.

Collingwood playing 4.

.4 off the average number each team should play. 1 interstate trip every 2.5 years less than average

Now consider this... based on last years H&A ladder positions, assign a figure to each teams opponent in 2010, 1 for St Kilda, 16 for Melbourne, etc, and here is your ladder in order from hardest (based on 09 finishing position) to easiest draw:

Total (Average 2009 Ladder Position of 2010 Opponent) TEAM

165 (7.5) ESSENDON
178 (8.09) COLLINGWOOD
182 (8.27) HAWTHORN
182 (8.27) MELBOURNE
183 (8.31) WEST COAST EAGLES
186 (8.45) BRISBANE LIONS
186 (8.45) FREMANTLE
186 (8.45) RICHMOND
186 (8.45) SYDNEY SWANS
189 (8.59) CARLTON
190 (8.63) NORTH MELBOURNE
190 (8.63) WESTERN BULLDOGS
191 (8.68) GEELONG CATS
196 (8.9) ADELAIDE
196 (8.9) PORT ADELAIDE
204 (9.27) ST KILDA

The draw is a complicated beast. We have 10/16 sides in one state, 22 rounds for 16 sides meaning not everyone plays everyone twice, billion dollar TV rights and sponsors to satisfy, set annual games, etc etc etc.

Collingwood are not favoured in every single way possible, the draw is not rigged in Collingwood's favour. You can split hairs and point out one area where they have a slight advantage over a couple of sides, but just as quickly I could show you an area where they have an equal disadvantage. Like EVERY side.

It would actually be near impossible to work out who has the best and worst draws given the amount of variables. And blind luck plays a role at the end of it all in the form of unexpected good and bad form, i.e. Adelaide/Fremantle 2009 to 2010.

Hence, anyone that even bothers trying to point out how 'rigged' it is for a particular side, especially those just repeating common rhetoric, are nothing but your common footy sook, up there with the likes of Caroline Wilson.

 

[Dr Basil]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

You make a very good case, pretty much the only sensible one in this sandy-vagina'd thread. Brisbane actually have to travel? Shock horror! Next he'll discover Docklands is smaller than the MCG, meaning St Kilda run less during games than Collingwood! OMG call UNICEF or something.

Yes the draw is rigged. Its rigged to pay the bills. You nominate the 3 or 4 clubs to die to pay for a fair draw and sort it out.

We have been paying for the whole damn show since this league was founded. And we'll keep on paying for it.

When a North supporter starts whining about Friday night footy they have a point: it was a great idea they helped to pioneer but sadly the failure of their fans to reproduce has made them unviable as a drawcard. The micro-crowd Hawks of the 80's parleyed their success into a crowd spike a decade later, but North have failed to do that with the power side of the 90's.

However if they want to bitch about playing us once they should take it up with their president who decided it would be cute to dishonour a handshake deal his club had with ours. Smart playa that Brayshaw.

Richmond and Hawthorn have tried similar scheduling crap with us too (regarding round one fixtures). All the poor clubs want a piece of us here in Melbourne, and we're generous , but don't bite the hand.

I really hope we can prop all of them up but if they want draw integrity, they should start picking out their own coffins.

Personally I'd love to play Port more often, decent hardworking club no-one has done any favours to: if anyone's going to survive the cull let it be Port.

Great post. Far too sensible for the Bay

 

[YouIdiot]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Where is the flog that suggested Victorian sides should play all their away games interstate?

I want to hear more from them!

Maybe some moon games should be on the agenda?

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

All the AFL needs to do is ensure that clubs travel in accordance with what they should be travelling. And Collingwood clearly do not.

So how many times should they travel, and how do you calculate that figure? I'm assuming you realise that it's simply not feasible to have all 16 clubs traveling the same number of times per year.

 

[YouIdiot]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Give me any of the interstate trips over Geelong at the MCG twice... Collingwood have been r*ped, the draw is an outrage and a conspiracy of the highest order.

I wouldn't be surprised if the AFL draw was in fact the second gunman on the grassy knoll.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Where is the flog that suggested Victorian sides should play all their away games interstate?

Let's do a bit of analysis on that. Every Vic club playing their away game interstate would mean either:

- Vic clubs never play each other. This means that each week, the 10 Vic clubs would play the 6 interstate clubs, requiring 4 interstate clubs to play 2 games in the one round. And they whinge about a 6 day turn around.

or

- Vic clubs only play each other at an interstate venue. This would mean that Vic clubs would only play a handful of games actually in Victoria. Not only would the away team have to play interstate, but the home team would also have to play interstate. I'm sure I don't need to go into any more detail to show what a totally stupid idea this is.

 

[Didaics]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Have any of you whingers bothered to note that we are playing the reigning premiers on the back of a Perth trip, having played 4 games in 19 days? Or is the research only being done to find minor advantages for us rather than against us?

Honestly the sheer idocy in all the arguments in all these threads.

20 of our 22 games this year are either neutral or away. Anybody mentioned that?

We play the top 3 (Geelong, St Kilda and Bulldogs) from last year twice, plus pre-season fancies Hawthorn twice, plus bolters Carlton twice, plus the 4 form interstate sides (Port, Syd, Freo and Brisbane) all away.

 

[Amber Guzzler]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

20 of our 22 games this year are either neutral or away. Anybody mentioned that?

I make it 21. No advantage for us agianst WCE, both side play at the docklands 4 times this year. That's not a home game advantage.

 

[Crow-mo]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

So Collingwood played very well tonight and won the game. Watching the game they were the best team on the night and deserved the win*.

*subject to clear advantages.

Freo looked a little slow and behind the pace, they are usually a very quick side, the amount of time they have had to travel this year vs collingwood clearly came into effect in the last half.

One interesting statistic to take out of this game is that it was Collingwoods first real AWAY game of the season (it's round 8 btw), Fremantle have had to travel further during the week than Collingwood has (from QLD to WA instead of MLB to WA). So the club playing a home game had to travel further than the away side.. nice rigging of the system AFL!

Infact the draw is so biased that Collingwood over 8 weeks have travelled less than Fremantle has in 1 week

As a Collingwood supporter, how can you be proud when your club gets such obvious bias from the AFL for decades? Bad luck tonight Freo, one upside to this is once finals hit Collingwood will screw it up again.

Even if they do win it will be funny to see Eddie shaft Mick after finally winning a grand final for the club.

where are the stats the thread title promised?

 

[Kickit2brown]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

where are the stats the thread title promised?

Page 3.

 

[BBQShapes]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

I can't believe an idiot like the original poster can post some bullshit like this. Collingwood have one of the hardest, if not the hardest draws in the competition and you are still whingeing. Considering your team won premierships because the AFL gifted you with a massive salary and an easy finals draw.

 

[Kickit2brown]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

I can't believe an idiot like the original poster can post some bullshit like this. Collingwood have one of the hardest, if not the hardest draws in the competition and you are still whingeing. Considering your team won premierships because the AFL gifted you with a massive salary and an easy finals draw.

Care to elaborate mate? What is this "hard" draw you talk about? Was the car trip in the first 7 weeks a bit uncomfortable?

Actually with a bloke named Tarkyn sitting next to you maybe it would be...

 

[Sainters4theflag]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Collingflog are shit.

 

[PieBeast]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Care to elaborate mate? What is this "hard" draw you talk about? Was the car trip in the first 7 weeks a bit uncomfortable?

Actually with a bloke named Tarkyn sitting next to you maybe it would be...

Tarks didn't travell to Perth, and even if he did i'd rather sit next to him then to something called Cheynee

Double fail

 

[PieBeast]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Collingflog are shit.

Look who the cat dragged in!

Bwahahahaha , suck shit on another wasted year , you bottom feeding rat

 

[doppleganger]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Care to elaborate mate? What is this "hard" draw you talk about? Was the car trip in the first 7 weeks a bit uncomfortable?

Actually with a bloke named Tarkyn sitting next to you maybe it would be...

You're an absolute muppet mate.

Take at look at Collingwood's 2010 fixture.

Rnd 1 - Western Bulldogs, we played them at Etihad...their home game close to the western suburbs of Melbourne.

Rnd 2 - Melbourne, our home game at the G....which is also the Dees home ground.

Rnd 3 - St.Kilda, we played them at Etihad......their home ground.

Rnd 4 - Hawthorn, our home game at the G.....which is also the Hawks home ground (when they aren't selling games away from Melbourne).

Rnd 5 - Essendon, our home game at the G.....another Melbourne based club at the G.

Rnd 6 - Carlton, their home game at the G.....another Melbourne based club at the G....

Rnd 7 - North, our home game at the G....another Melbourne based club at the G.

So as of Rnd 7....pies had played 4 HOME games at the G, 1 AWAY game at the G, 2 AWAY games at Etihad.......against Melbourne based teams.

Rnd 8 - Freo, their home game at subi.....our first game not against a Melbourne based team and the pies off travelling.

Where the feck do you suppose two Melbourne based teams play?? Do you not realise that 10 of the 16 teams are from Victoria??

This coming from Brisbane who had 3 of their first 4 games at home at the GABBA......since you had to play some away games you have been shown up as pretenders!!

Rnd 1 - West Coast travel all the way from Perf...get tired in last quarter and the Lions come from behind.

Rnd 2 - Carlton travel up from Melbourne...get tired in last quarter and the Lions come from behind.

Rnd 3 - You travelled to Adelaide to play Port....but lucked out as Port were coming back from Perth the week before (talk about a rigged draw in the Lions favour) and managed to win.

Rnd 4 - Back at the Gabba again...Western Bulldogs travel up from Melb....in front by heaps at half time...get tired in second half and Lions come from behind.

The Lions good start the result of a gifted draw......then since exposed.

Pies simply keep winning.....and this week they are disadvantaged as they had to travel back from Perf...and the Cats only had to travel back from Brisband.....it is so unfair!!

 

[Pie eyed]

Re: Don't let the Collingwood pretenders fool you, lets take a look at the stats.

Collingflog are shit.

Time to change your username I think.