Draw Statistics

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C

Connor7395

Independent
Veteran Wordler
May 23, 2010
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601
AFL Club
Melbourne
Out to anybody....preferably Ronnie :D

Tough ones here.

Which player has played the most draws throughout his career?
Which player has the highest percentage of draws in his career (For example, if a player played 5 games and drew 1, 20% of his games were draws)?
How many players have played in 2 consecutive draws? And if possible, three consecutive draws?
Has there been any other round (Other than Round 2, 1911) where there were 2 draws in the same round?
How many teams have drawn consecutive games (list the instances)?
And if possible, if you can scour throughout the leagues on SportingPulse, which team this year was featured in the most draws (I think I heard that some team in the WAFL in 1960 got three draws)
 
1. 7 - Bill Hutchison (Es), Barry Davis (Es,NM), Brad Johnson (WB)

2. least career games for x draws:

Code: 
D Gms Ratio Player       Club(s)
--------------------------------
1   1  1.00 Ted Flynn         Es
    1  1.00 Sid O'Neill       Fi
    1  1.00 Ron Larking       Un
    1  1.00 Tom Hanson        Ca
    1  1.00 Arthur E.Harrison Ca
    1  1.00 Colin Dufty       Co
    1  1.00 Eric Crompton     WB
    1  1.00 George Kanngieser Co
    1  1.00 Ted Wellington    NM
    1  1.00 Ray Davies        Fi
    1  1.00 Garry Cameron     NM
2   7  3.50 Dick Maynard      Es
    7  3.50 Harry Bruce       Me
    7  3.50 Jeff McGee        Sy
3  20  6.67 Tom M.Jones       Ca
4  50 12.50 Bert R.Taylor     Fi
5 105 21.00 Jack Wells     St,Ca
6 116 19.33 Viv Valentine     Ca
7 289 41.29 Barry Davis    Es,NM

3. 38 players have played in consecutive draws (spread over 9 separate matches). The last were St.Kilda's Jeff Sarau and Russell Tweeddale in 1977.

4. Also R1 1914, R5 1921, R6 1944 and R7 1977.

5. Carlton, R1 & 2 1911; Carlton again, R4 & 5 1921

6. someone else can do that one. :)
 

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The Victorian teams that have played in two draws this season are Harcourt, Mount Evelyn and North Warrnambool.

The WAFL team who played in three draws in 1960 was West Perth, who actually finished top of the ladder and won the premiership. East Perth also had three draws in 1937.

North Melbourne Under 19s had three draws in 1956, however, Geelong Under 19s actually managed four draws in 1971.
 
Most career games for no draws

Ron the Bear and worbod, would it be possible to do a table of most career games for no draws? I know John Blakey hold the record, but I would like to see a top 10 or 15 here.
 
Re: Most career games for no draws

mianfei said:
Ron the Bear and worbod, would it be possible to do a table of most career games for no draws? I know John Blakey hold the record, but I would like to see a top 10 or 15 here.
Click to expand...

Gms Player
--------------------------
359 Blakey, John
340 McLeod, Andrew
321 Edwards, Tyson
311 Archer, Glenn
306 Neitz, David
300 Moore, Kelvin D.
293 Carter, Rod
286 Bell, Peter
279 Knights, Matthew
275 Goodwin, Simon
272 Bickley, Mark
272 Carey, Wayne
272 Flower, Robert
258 Febey, Steven
255 Martello, Alan
255 Ratten, Brett
253 Nankervis, Bruce
249 Farmer, Jeff
246 O'Bree, Shane
242 Rocca, Anthony
240 DiPierdomenico, Robert

All relatively modern players, with Moore and Nankervis finishing earliest in 1983. Have to go back to George Bisset (207 games, #41, 1974) for a player finishing in the 70's.
 
Re: Most career games for no draws

Ron The Bear said:
All relatively modern players, with Moore and Nankervis finishing earliest in 1983. Have to go back to George Bisset (207 games, #41, 1974) for a player finishing in the 70's.
Click to expand...
In a sense, not surprising because of the long draw drought in the 1980s (only two draws from 1981 to 1986) and the absence of draws in the past sixteen years with Adelaide and Fremantle.

However, when one looks at the numbers of draws by decade thus:

Decade..Draws
-------------
1900s.....7
1910s....14
1920s....15
1930s.....9
1940s....11
1950s....14
1960s....15
1970s....14
1980s.....9

it can seem surprising that there are no cases from players finishing before the 1950s. Especially with St. Kilda, who played no draws in twenty years from 1923 to 1942, or Collingwood in its first decade, one might expect some cases like this.

Were Bill Mohr (195 games) and Charlie Pannam (193) the record-holders before 1974?
 
Re: Most career games for no draws

mianfei said:
Were Bill Mohr (195 games) and Charlie Pannam (193) the record-holders before 1974?
Click to expand...

Yes.


Most draws as coach:

Code: 
Dr Coach                Gms   Career  Club(s)
----------------------------------------------------
10 McHale, Jock         713 1912-1949 Co
 8 Matthews, Leigh      461 1986-2008 Co,Br
 7 Smith, Norm W.       452 1949-1972 Fi,Me,Sy
 7 Sheedy, Kevin        635 1981-2007 Es
 6 Clark, Norman        214 1912-1931 Ca,Ri,Ca,St,NM
 6 Reynolds, Dick       415 1939-1960 Es
 6 Malthouse, Mick      638 1984-2010 WB,WC,Co
 5 Davis, Bob           116 1956-1965 Ge
 5 Parratt, Percy       125 1913-1935 Fi,Ca,Ge
 5 Kennedy, John J.     411 1960-1989 Ha,NM
 5 Bentley, Percy       414 1934-1955 Ri,Ca
 4 Wallace, Terry       247 1996-2009 WB,Ri
 4 Worrall, John        279 1902-1920 Ca,Es
 4 Rose, Bob            282 1964-1986 Co,WB,Co
 4 Eade, Rodney         295 1996-2010 Sy,WB
 4 Northey, John        315 1985-1998 Sy,Me,Ri,Br
 4 Hughes senior, Frank 378 1927-1965 Ri,Me
 4 Barassi, Ron D.      515 1964-1995 Me,Ca,NM,Me,Sy
 4 Hafey, Tom           522 1966-1988 Ri,Co,Ge,Sy


Lenny Hayes now involved in five draws as a player.
 
Longest coaching sequences without a draw:

Code: 
                       Start          End
Gms Coach           Year Rd CMa | Year Rd CMa
---------------------------------------------
433 Malthouse, Mick 1992  6 191 | 2010 11 624
287 Jeans, Allan    1968 20 152 | 1985 10 439
287 Pagan, Denis    1993  1   1 | 2005  3 287
258 Bentley, Percy  1937  4  61 | 1950 15 319
250*Blight, Malcolm 1981  1   1 | 2001 15 250
245 Minogue, Dan    1926 14 118 | 1942 16 363
228*Whitten, Ted    1957 13   1 | 1971 22 228
212 McHale, Jock    1935 17 438 | 1946 19 650
211 Kennedy, John   1968  3  97 | 1985 10 308
209 Parkin, David   1982  2 119 | 1993  1 328
206*Smith, Norm     1961 13 247 | 1972 22 452
203 Hughes, Frank   1935 17 172 | 1948 PF 375
198 Walls, Robert   1982  2  26 | 1992  3 224
196 Stephen, Bill   1955  1   1 | 1977  6 196
190*Hafey, Tom      1980  9 333 | 1988 22 522

* unbroken sequence

Longest for other notable coaches:

Ron Barassi 170*
John Worsfold 167*
Dick Reynolds 159*
Kevin Sheedy 151
Neil Craig 150*
Leigh Matthews 111
 
Longest drawless sequences by clubs:

Code: 
Gms Club             Year Rd-Year Rd
------------------------------------
462 Melbourne        1971 19-1992  6
406 Geelong          1969  3-1987  5
403 Hawthorn         1968  3-1985 10
384*Adelaide         1994 15-2010 22
360 St.Kilda         1922 14-1943  1
358*Fremantle        1995  1-2010 SF
344 Collingwood      1995 13-2010 11
344 Richmond         1980  4-1995 14
335 North Melbourne  1988 18-2003  2
333 Melbourne        1992  8-2006 20
332*Fitzroy          1982  2-1996 22
316 Sydney           1977  8-1991 11
313 Western Bulldogs 1957  2-1973  7
291 Carlton          1935  8-1950 15
284 Geelong          1935 12-1952 10
282 Carlton          1993  3-2005  3
269 Sydney           1922 14-1937  2
265 Essendon         1929 15-1944  5
...
189 West Coast       1992  6-2000  2
133*Port Adelaide    2005  5-2010 22
113 Brisbane         1987  1-1992  3
 90*University       1910  1-1914 18
 
Ron The Bear said:
Longest drawless sequences by clubs:

Code: 
Gms Club             Year Rd-Year Rd
------------------------------------
384*Adelaide         1994 15-2010 22
Click to expand...

Amazing to think I was at Adelaide's most recent draw, at Waverley Park on a surprisingly fine June day (my 22nd birthday, actually). In the last quarter, Adelaide scored 4.5 (29) to St Kilda zero, and should really have won it against a side who just stopped at 3qt.

At the final siren I was the only Saints supporter in the ground who applauded, because our percentage was (as usual) the worst in the league and that made the draw as good as a win. Didn't matter much, we finished third-last that year with 7½ wins, two wins behind Adelaide.

Is there a larger 3qt deficit in a drawn match? And has any team scored more than Adelaide against a non-scoring opposition in a quarter of a drawn match?
 
Highest deficits at each break in drawn matches:

Code: 
3D Cb Op Year Rd Venue
-----------------------------------------
34 Sy Es 1968  2 Glenferrie Oval
31 St Sy 1977  7 Moorabbin Oval
30 Me Co 1928 SF Melbourne Cricket Ground
30 Fi St 1954  5 Brunswick Street Oval
29 Ad St 1994 14 Waverley Park
28 Ca Ri 1960  1 Princes Park
27 Ri WB 1944  6 Punt Road Oval
27 Co Ca 1964 16 Princes Park
27 NM Co 1977 GF Melbourne Cricket Ground

2D Cb Op Year Rd Venue
-----------------------------------------
42 NM Ri 2009 16 Melbourne Cricket Ground
32 Fi Sy 1951  9 Brunswick Street Oval
32 Fi Ca 1982  1 Princes Park
31 Ge Me 2006 21 Skilled Stadium
29 Sy Ca 1967  7 Lakeside Oval
29 Br PA 1997 20 Gabba

1D Cb Op Year Rd Venue
-----------------------------------------
38 Co Ca 1964 16 Princes Park
35 WB Me 1929  5 Whitten Oval
35 Ca Ri 1960  1 Princes Park
32 Ri Me 1953 12 Melbourne Cricket Ground
30 Co NM 1988 17 Victoria Park


Every scoreless quarter in drawn matches ('Op' is the scoreless club):

Code: 
Q Sc Cb Op Year Rd Venue
-------------------------------------------------
1 35 Me WB 1929  5 Whitten Oval
4 30 Me Co 1928 SF Melbourne Cricket Ground
2 29 Ge Me 1911  2 Corio Oval
3 29 NM Me 1971 18 Arden Street Oval
4 29 Ad St 1994 14 Waverley Park
4 27 Co Ca 1964 16 Princes Park
2 26 St Es 1903  2 Junction Oval
3 25 Me Ge 1911  2 Corio Oval
4 19 Ge Me 1911  2 Corio Oval
4 17 Es Fi 1927 10 Windy Hill
3 16 Es Ca 1911  1 East Melbourne Cricket Ground
4 16 Ca Fi 1915  1 Princes Park
4 14 Me Ca 1952 12 Princes Park
4  8 Me Ca 1898  9 Princes Park
2  8 Sy St 2002  5 Etihad Stadium

Just thinking about that last game on the list gives me the shudders.
 
Ron The Bear said:
Code: 
Gms Club             Year Rd-Year Rd
------------------------------------
189 [COLOR=Blue]West Coast[/COLOR]       1992  6-2000  2
Click to expand...
A very strange postcript:

Currently, West Coast have played 167 games since their last draw in the twentieth round of 2003. So they will equal that figure in the very last game of next year.

Melbourne’s record is certainly not a record for all senior football in Australia. Several months ago, I compiled data for drawn games in the VFA, SANFL and WAFL. In the latter two competitions there have been complete non-occurrences of draws much longer than known in the V/AFL, which I intend to discuss in a later post. For individual clubs in the WAFL (excluding the 1942 to 1944 under-age competition):

  • Perth played 555 games with no draws between 1930 and 1959
    • The draws at the endpoints were in the opening rounds of 1930 and 1960
  • East Perth played 518 games with no draws between 1969 and 1993
  • Claremont played 510 games with no draws between 1939 and 1965
    • in the present context, it is noteworthy the the draw before the sequence was the 1938 Grand Final!
  • Subiaco played 450 games with no draws between 1966 and 1987 (not a record)
For individual clubs in the SANFL (excluding the restricted wartime competition):

  • North Adelaide played no drawn games between 1938 and 1962
  • South Adelaide played no drawn games between Round 10 of 1932 and Round 8 of 1958
    • Both endpoint draws were in Round 9
    • This amounts to an easily estimated 405 games, which is not a record.
 

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Thanks Ron, you're a veritable font!

Ron The Bear said:
Highest deficits at each break in drawn matches ...
Every scoreless quarter in drawn matches ...

Just thinking about that last game on the list gives me the shudders.
Click to expand...

I was at that game too (Saints-Swans 56-all after 1.4(10)-2.2(14) at half time). It was a smart gameplan by the undermanned Saints and a taste of Saints footy 2009/10 style: damn ugly! Kicks for territory, ground-level scrambles all the way, vacant forward 50s ...

The draw against Hawthorn 10 weeks ago is the only one I've missed in about 30 years. They always stick in your memory, even if it's a meaningless game like vs West Coast in 2000 when we only had two premiership points after 10 rounds.
 
Ron The Bear said:
Longest coaching sequences without a draw:

Code: 
                       Start          End
Gms Coach           Year Rd CMa | Year Rd CMa
---------------------------------------------
433 Malthouse, Mick 1992  6 191 | 2010 11 624
Click to expand...

I assume you're chosing to omit finals where a result actually occurs?
 
beez said:
I assume you're chosing to omit finals where a result actually occurs?
Click to expand...

Haven't structured my database to account for two results in the one match, but it's a fair point you raise.

If the 2007 SF is classed as a draw, Malthouse's run was 371 games.
 
Longest non-occurrences of draws in other competitions

As I noted in my previous post, during the late 1940s and 1950s the SANFL and WAFL had non-occurrences of draws that massively surpass the records of the VFL/AFL:

  • In the WAFL, there were:
    1. 948 games with no draws between Round 11, 1946 and Round 20, 1957
    2. 888 games with no draws between Round 4, 1974 and Round 5, 1984
  • In fact, it is revealing to look at the number of drawn matches in the WAFL for each decade since 1900, for in some cases the figures have been amazingly low to those familiar with Victorian football, but in others they have been similar or even higher, due to weather wetter than experienced by anybody under forty today.
    • Decade....WAFL Draws
      ---------------------
      1900s........7
      1910s........5
      1920s........9
      1930s.......11
      1940s........3
      1950s........1
      1960s.......12
      1970s........2
      1980s........5
      1990s........2
      2000s........5
  • In the SANFL, there were 776 games with no draws between Round 6 of 1941 and Round 1 of 1955
    • this figure excludes the reduced wartime competition
  • In contrast, the VFL/AFL has never seen more than 468 games with no draws. Most notably, whereas neither the SANFL nor the WAFL saw a single draw between 1947 and 1954, the VFL saw thirteen draws in this period.
 
What would be the highest scores anyone knows of in a drawn game? In the Bellarine DFL in 1990 Torquay 24.12 (156) drew with Ocean Grove 24.12 (156).
 
worbod said:
What would be the highest scores anyone knows of in a drawn game? In the Bellarine DFL in 1990 Torquay 24.12 (156) drew with Ocean Grove 24.12 (156).
Click to expand...
That is far ahead of anything I have seen in major senior football competitions! Most likely it is a large-scale record.

I recall reading in The Age of a draw with scores of 131 each in the VFA in 1983 and the previous draw in that competition from early 1981 (Second Division) may have been slightly higher, but I never seen a score equal to or above 140.
 
Collingwood & St.Kilda drawing 2 games each during in 2010 would have to fairly unusual. But both having 1 draw in H&A season then drawing in the GF will go down as unique, and might never be repeated.

So the question is which teams have had 2 x draws in one season.

Going on from the above, has any team ever had 3 draws in VFL/AFL/SANFL history during one complete season ?
 
If you look on page 1 of this thread and go to the 4th post, it may answer your query about 3 draws in a season.
 
damuzzdu said:
Collingwood & St.Kilda drawing 2 games each during in 2010 would have to fairly unusual. But both having 1 draw in H&A season then drawing in the GF will go down as unique, and might never be repeated.

So the question is which teams have had 2 x draws in one season.

Going on from the above, has any team ever had 3 draws in VFL/AFL/SANFL history during one complete season ?
Click to expand...
Essendon in 1948 drew with Richmond in the home-and-away round and then in the Grand Final. No team in the V/AFL or SANFL has had three draws in one season.

Two draws in a season is however sufficiently common that one can tabulate cases by club in order of frequency:

.......Team........Year(s) with two draws.........Total....%
 ......................................................of seasons
 Essendon...........1914, 1921, 1944, 1948, 1995....5....4.464
 Carlton............1911, 1914, 1921, 1952, 1972....5....4.386
 Brisbane...........2007............................1....4.167
 West Coast.........2003............................1....4.167
 St. Kilda..........1944, 1977, 1980, 2010..........4....3.571
 Collingwood........1909, 1935, 1995, 2010..........4....3.509
 Fitzroy............1921, 1951......................2....2.000
 Footscray..........1935............................1....1.163
 Richmond...........1960............................1....0.971
 Melbourne..........1921............................1....0.901
 Port Adelaide......Never...........................0....0.000
 Fremantle..........Never...........................0....0.000
 Adelaide...........Never...........................0....0.000
 Hawthorn...........Never...........................0....0.000
 North Melbourne....Never...........................0....0.000
 Geelong............Never...........................0....0.000
Sydney/SM .........Never...........................0....0.000

 That totals twenty-five occurrences of two draws in a season, or one every 4.56 seasons.

In the SANFL since 1902 there have been only thirteen cases of a team drawing twice in a season:

.......Team............Year(s) with two draws....Total....%
 ......................................................of seasons
North Adelaide............1919, 1937, 2003.........3....2.913
 South Adelaide............1903, 1906, 1997.........3....2.913
 West Torrens..............1928, 1932...............2....2.439
 Glenelg...................1964, 2007...............2....2.299
Sturt.....................1928, 1997...............2....1.941
Norwood...................1933.....................1....0.971
 Woodville/West Torrens....Never....................0....0.000
 Woodville.................Never....................0....0.000
Central District..........Never....................0....0.000
 West Adelaide.............Never....................0....0.000
Port Adelaide (Magpies)...Never....................0....0.000

It is notable how only one of these thirteen cases was in the fifty-six seasons between 1938 and 1996 (Glenelg in 1964).

The two WAFL cases of three draws in one season are incredible since (as I have noted above) draws have generally been noticeably less frequent than in Victorian football. The 1960 case of West Perth and the 1937 case of East Perth reflect, vis-à-vis present conditions in the WAFL where draws are exceptional rarities, a climate around twenty-five to thirty percent wetter, resulting in some extremely wet days where low scores are the order even with free drainage on Perth’s sandy soils. In fact, overall only eleven times in the WAFL has a team drawn two games in one season: Perth and Subiaco have never tied even two games in a season.
 
mianfei,

Many thanks, great stats and nicely presented - easy to understand :D

So my next questions...

How many draws have there been in V/AFL history against total number of games played. ie what is the % chances of a draw occurring in each season.

Then: What is longest span in V/AFL history with no draws in terms of seasons and games.

TIA
Muzz
 

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