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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Drugs in sport - Where we've been, where we are at.
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Hello all I am a long time lurker on these forums, I mean, first time caller, longtime lurker, and this was one of the most interesting threads because I stupidly used to believe that PED's would not benefit a 'skill based' game like football and my name may or may not be daniel jackson.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/ed...nce-armstrong-and-admit-it-has-a?ICID=HP_TS_5
#succourMomsftw
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/ed...nce-armstrong-and-admit-it-has-a?ICID=HP_TS_5
#succourMomsftw
NoAFLinmycomp
Club Legend
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Just to break up black-cat's self- discussion thread ....
Reminder from ASADA this week about use of supplements:
https://www.asada.gov.au/news/blog-1-5-supplements-tainted-banned-substances
Blog: 1 in 5 supplements tainted with banned substances
30 June 2016
Athletes can spend their entire lives working towards a career goal – whether it is the Olympics, a National Championship or a Grand Final.
They train hard, they sleep well, they eat smart, and they make many sacrifices along the way. But all that hard work can be undone in an instant if they make the wrong choice about a supplement.
In fact, new research announced today found that 1 in 5 supplements surveyed were tainted with banned substances that could register a positive doping test. For athletes, this could mean a ban of up to four years from sport.
Conducted by life science company LGC, the Australian Supplements Survey analysed 67 common supplement products available for purchase in Australia. They included pre-workout, post-workout, protein, fat-burning and multivitamin products to name a few, and covered things like powders, drinks, tablets and edible bars. Each one was then analysed to see whether they contained substances prohibited in sport – like anabolic agents, stimulants, and diuretics.
They found that of the 67 products, 13 contained one or more substances that are banned in sport. Importantly, none of the 13 products listed any banned substances on their ingredients list.
The new research supports ASADA’s long-standing warning for athletes about the risks of using supplements. There is no way for an athlete to be certain that any supplement is safe to use and under the World Anti-Doping Code’s principle of strict liability, athletes risk a doping violation regardless of whether they used a banned substance on purpose.
For more information about supplements and how to weigh up the benefits against the risks, visit our supplements page.
The Australian Institute of Sport supplements page and Play by the Rules have further information for athletes considering the use of these products. The full survey will be published by LGC in the coming days. The survey was not commissioned by ASADA.
Reminder from ASADA this week about use of supplements:
https://www.asada.gov.au/news/blog-1-5-supplements-tainted-banned-substances
Blog: 1 in 5 supplements tainted with banned substances
30 June 2016
Athletes can spend their entire lives working towards a career goal – whether it is the Olympics, a National Championship or a Grand Final.
They train hard, they sleep well, they eat smart, and they make many sacrifices along the way. But all that hard work can be undone in an instant if they make the wrong choice about a supplement.
In fact, new research announced today found that 1 in 5 supplements surveyed were tainted with banned substances that could register a positive doping test. For athletes, this could mean a ban of up to four years from sport.
Conducted by life science company LGC, the Australian Supplements Survey analysed 67 common supplement products available for purchase in Australia. They included pre-workout, post-workout, protein, fat-burning and multivitamin products to name a few, and covered things like powders, drinks, tablets and edible bars. Each one was then analysed to see whether they contained substances prohibited in sport – like anabolic agents, stimulants, and diuretics.
They found that of the 67 products, 13 contained one or more substances that are banned in sport. Importantly, none of the 13 products listed any banned substances on their ingredients list.
The new research supports ASADA’s long-standing warning for athletes about the risks of using supplements. There is no way for an athlete to be certain that any supplement is safe to use and under the World Anti-Doping Code’s principle of strict liability, athletes risk a doping violation regardless of whether they used a banned substance on purpose.
For more information about supplements and how to weigh up the benefits against the risks, visit our supplements page.
The Australian Institute of Sport supplements page and Play by the Rules have further information for athletes considering the use of these products. The full survey will be published by LGC in the coming days. The survey was not commissioned by ASADA.
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- #32
quote:
Solving the doping problem is impossible, says Leinders. "Politicians or administrators say: if you want to solve it, then it can be solved. As if it is a choice. Who does not want it solved, is a bad guy. But that is far from the truth. You do not choose, it's a fait accompli. I've seen it happen in the nineties. Then there was a product [epo, Ed.] that one could not detect. I was there, the product was there. I cannot erase it. I've always thought carefully about how to deal with it. That's the only thing you can do. Zero tolerance is politics, it has nothing to do with cycling."
The new cycling? "Nonsense, innovation has always been there. Think of it as shedding your skin. The snake gets a new skin, but underneath it remains the same snake. He takes his past and his problems along with him into the present. Now people think its all gone in one go. But that's not the case. I was recently asked to participate in a TV program titled: "How clean will the 2011 Tour be?" Now I'm really not going to participate in that."
The new cycling? "Nonsense, innovation has always been there. Think of it as shedding your skin. The snake gets a new skin, but underneath it remains the same snake. He takes his past and his problems along with him into the present. Now people think its all gone in one go. But that's not the case. I was recently asked to participate in a TV program titled: "How clean will the 2011 Tour be?" Now I'm really not going to participate in that."
- Jan 16, 2016
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So as I tune in to the TDF tonight I should not believe the majority are clean?
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- #34
believe post modern, its how you choose to see it. The tdf is more than an acronym, it can be clean if you wish. Like Aesops handwash. Hey, I will put a 300 bounty and reward, on the Aesops handwash at the MTC bathrooms, I would put a 200dollar retail price on the handwash. and it is clamped down like fort knox.
blackcat: "why the 2 litres of 2 hundred dollar handwash?"
theatre patron: "your hands gotta be clean".
blackcat: "but why the two hundred dollar handwash?"
theatre patron: (bemused indignance) "your hands need to be clean!"
blackcat: "ok, besides your poor use of cultured accent grammatically correct English which I shall choose to overlook, but Aesops can indeed clean your hands".
"two hundred dollars worth of retail handwash.
(sotto vocce) Melbourne theatre company patrons must need a clean".
(I have been drinking too much grappa and playing bocci with immigrant superannuants in Brunswick and sotto vocce only spelled with the single c)
dress circle: evo Contra Mundum GuruJane
rush tix restricted view: skilts @medusala s**tstain @Chief, he of unmatched wisdom
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RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
- Thread starter
- #36
i dont know REH.
I remember the Swedish champion Olympic medallist, think WR holder in 50 and 100. Therese Alshammar. She was gorgeous, (I met here many times in Melb in 90s). But she had this male model jawline. I just assumed, this was her bonestructure, natural bonestructure. Now I know when i was just out of school by a year or so, I was ignorant on whatever androgens they would have had her on in Stockholm team. One of those lads mags in the 2000s had her names as the sexiest swedish flicker...
who are the coaches in Brisbane in swimming, one is the Swiss guy, Stefan Widmar, one of the coaches in the Sky Pro Cycling team also, Tim Kerrison. http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/staff/article/7753#R2ZGM0lGH0F2BqAz.97
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/...th-tim-kerrison---the-team-sky-visionary-beh/
there is another swimming coach in Brisbane,
but Olympic level, tous dope, tout dope. the individual is not relevant.
I gotta thang for Bronte Campbell, as evo will attest, I am a sucker for lesbian haircuts
#lesbianhaircutz #ftw
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Simon Cusack is the Campbell sister's coach. His dad was an Olympic swimmer and his great uncle was a legendary coach in Qld who coached his father and many other Olympicans
This is interesting:
"Liverpool and France defender Mamadou Sakho has had a doping case against him dismissed by Uefa.
The 26-year-old served a provisional 30-day suspension after testing positive for a 'fat burner' in March.
Sakho admitted taking the substance, but Uefa had to investigate whether it was actually prohibited."
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36752127
I wonder what the substance was?
"Liverpool and France defender Mamadou Sakho has had a doping case against him dismissed by Uefa.
The 26-year-old served a provisional 30-day suspension after testing positive for a 'fat burner' in March.
Sakho admitted taking the substance, but Uefa had to investigate whether it was actually prohibited."
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36752127
I wonder what the substance was?
- Jan 16, 2016
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Thr cynic in me grows!
NoAFLinmycomp
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Not sure if this is still considered "sport", or if it has moved over in to the field of "scripted entertainment".
In reference to the "cleanup" in light of the sale:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...g-program-prove-too-credible-for-its-own-good
"Just a week ago, Brock Lesnar stood in a tent behind Las Vegas’s T-Mobile Arena celebrating a most improbable victory. He laughed. He strutted. He joked about wanting to drink a beer from a company that was not an official UFC sponsor. It seemed a story too good to be true: How could a nearly 39-year-old man, five years removed from his last mixed martial arts fight, stomp back in the cage and look like he was a decade younger?
The US Anti-Doping Agency says this was likely a farce, announcing on Friday that Lesnar has been flagged for a possible anti-doping violation on a sample taken 12 days before last weekend’s UFC 200. If Usada ultimately proves that Lesnar tested positive for PEDs, that will mean half of 200’s original main event fighters have been caught cheating. In the end, the most honest man in Las Vegas that week might have been a man who wasn’t even there to fight, Nate Diaz, who at one point growled: “Everybody’s on steroids.” "
...
"In a way, the UFC themselves are helping to prove them right. A year ago, the organization handed their drug testing operation to Jeff Novitzky the federal agent who led the infamous Balco investigation in the early 2000s. This was a calculated risk on the UFC’s part. You don’t hire the man who brought down Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones and ruined the legacies of Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds if you aren’t prepared for a flood of positive PED tests.
“We’re putting this program out there as a gold standard,” The Washington Post’s Rick Maese quoted Nowitzky telling a Washington panel this spring. “So that Major League Baseball, so that the NFL says ‘Hey, here’s what a real, solid comprehensive, robust program looks like.’ And we’re hoping in years to come that they follow suit.”
The UFC’s departing owners Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta wanted to push their sport into the mainstream, where the biggest money lies. Novitsky brings respect. Who knows how much adding him and his testing program was worth to the $4bn sale price the Fertittas got this week when WME-IMG bought the organization from them? But there is no doubt they bought credibility whey they recruited Nowitzky."
In reference to the "cleanup" in light of the sale:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...g-program-prove-too-credible-for-its-own-good
"Just a week ago, Brock Lesnar stood in a tent behind Las Vegas’s T-Mobile Arena celebrating a most improbable victory. He laughed. He strutted. He joked about wanting to drink a beer from a company that was not an official UFC sponsor. It seemed a story too good to be true: How could a nearly 39-year-old man, five years removed from his last mixed martial arts fight, stomp back in the cage and look like he was a decade younger?
The US Anti-Doping Agency says this was likely a farce, announcing on Friday that Lesnar has been flagged for a possible anti-doping violation on a sample taken 12 days before last weekend’s UFC 200. If Usada ultimately proves that Lesnar tested positive for PEDs, that will mean half of 200’s original main event fighters have been caught cheating. In the end, the most honest man in Las Vegas that week might have been a man who wasn’t even there to fight, Nate Diaz, who at one point growled: “Everybody’s on steroids.” "
...
"In a way, the UFC themselves are helping to prove them right. A year ago, the organization handed their drug testing operation to Jeff Novitzky the federal agent who led the infamous Balco investigation in the early 2000s. This was a calculated risk on the UFC’s part. You don’t hire the man who brought down Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones and ruined the legacies of Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds if you aren’t prepared for a flood of positive PED tests.
“We’re putting this program out there as a gold standard,” The Washington Post’s Rick Maese quoted Nowitzky telling a Washington panel this spring. “So that Major League Baseball, so that the NFL says ‘Hey, here’s what a real, solid comprehensive, robust program looks like.’ And we’re hoping in years to come that they follow suit.”
The UFC’s departing owners Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta wanted to push their sport into the mainstream, where the biggest money lies. Novitsky brings respect. Who knows how much adding him and his testing program was worth to the $4bn sale price the Fertittas got this week when WME-IMG bought the organization from them? But there is no doubt they bought credibility whey they recruited Nowitzky."
- Thread starter
- #42
i prefer the swiss coach in brisbane, Stefan Widmar you are no longer in Kansas anymore Dorothy
NAimC its called onanism brah
- Thread starter
- #43
https://www.velopress.com/dr-ferrari-was-right/
Dr Ferrari was right #Schumi #ftw
http://redkiteprayer.com/2016/06/spitting-in-the-soup-an-interview-with-mark-johnson-part-ii/
Dr Ferrari was right #Schumi #ftw
http://redkiteprayer.com/2016/06/spitting-in-the-soup-an-interview-with-mark-johnson-part-ii/
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
- Thread starter
- #45
yo 61_99, my fave #succourmom, nice to hear from u.This video does not exist.
#Poe's_law
i think the link that is not working, was just another link to that John Oliver show, his eponymous iteration of John Stewart Daily Weekly Monthly Annual Show and Charlie Pickering This Day Tonight Show Last Night Crepuscular Show
#ToT
#extemporisation with a s, but Cherfs swear filter wants me to spell spolital kam pain A with a "z", extemporization #MacquarieDictionary
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
I'm a big fan of Oliver... very funny, and on point.
One thing I wanted to say to you was this... I don't think people that take performance enhancing drugs are evil people. But I do believe they are cheats. Whilst it is a pie-in-sky dream of mine for the sport I love (AFL) to be PED free, I know the likelihood is probably fairly low. I do hope, though, that Clubs have learned their lessen and will no longer dare to dabble in the experimental peptide field. Like I said, one can dream.
- Thread starter
- #48
@61_99 I think it was the 20 minute version of the John Oliver spiel. Prolly got taken down cos of copyright. I know they do not say that, it is just blank. Cos often copyright will just say that on youtube, so that is the flaw in my position mr youtube is not telling us he or she, mrs youtube, never say they removed it cos of copyrightThis video does not exist.
- Thread starter
- #49
back to my onanism thread
thnx to Alex on cyclingews fora for doing the groundwork.
i see this as analogous to every pro sport, even with the individual anecdotes
oh, and Michael Phelps is just talking some funny motherhood statements about not being sure he was always competing(past tense) in/on level playing field with no doping...
Jorg Jaksche umlaut was a rider for ONCE, Manalo Saiz' ONCE and Libertine Seguros, then he rode for CSC, I think, not sure on that, my memory has failed me, I stopped following cycling qua cycling, i follow cycling doping now tho.
Some quotes from Jorge:
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Well, let’s develop this a little bit more now, in terms of the...what is encouraged, the mentality encouraged. I mean, it does appear, Joerg, that cheating has become commonplace, if I can put it like that. Maybe... You can tell me if I’m wrong. Certainly in your sport of cycling.
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, in cycling, it was always... I always explain it in the way that in 1904, I think that was the first Tour de France, the first three or four riders were disqualified because they took the train, and the fifth rider actually had the same time like the fourth rider, so he must have taken, also, the train but they did not catch him on the train. So, probably he was sitting on the train, on the top of the... I don’t know but, anyway, so, there is a long story about cheating, at least in cycling, and the funny thing about, uh...or the awkward thing about cheating in cycling is that doping has never been seen as cheating. So, we have...
GERALDINE DOOGUE
So, what’s it seen as?
JOERG JAKSCHE
As part of the business, as...
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Seriously?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, yeah.
TRACEY HOLMES
It’s an expectation.
JOERG JAKSCHE
It was...at that time, it was a systematic problem, so you were expected, by your team management, to participate.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
But it’s seen as performance-enhancing, then, is it? Is that how you’d put it?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, yeah.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Like, this is really important. The language matters, doesn’t it?
GAYELENE CLEWS
It’s normalising it, isn’t it?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, you would never talk about doping, you would talk about, um, drugs, of course, but you would never say, “This is doping,” or “This is illegal,” knowing very well that it is illegal. So, my team management at that time from a very big German team, they said to me, “Listen, we think you’re talented, but if you want to be successful in this sport, this is the way how it works. So, you can either participate in this system...” No-one urges you and pushes you...
GERALDINE DOOGUE
It’s your choice.
JOERG JAKSCHE
“It’s your choice. But we will also tell you that the likeliness that you will get another contract after two years is quite low.” And when you’re 19, 20, and you have the dream of participating in the Tour de France or participating at Rio and someone comes and kind of justifies taking drugs or PEDs, and all the entourage around you, so the doctor is involved, the team manager is involved, so everyone knows about it, so they take this bad feeling away from you that you’re cheating because actually everyone else is doing it, it is somehow fine for you and when you cross this line, you’re in the system. You will never get back out of the system.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Well, you outed yourself, didn’t you?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, I outed myself. But...because I was mainly fed up with the hypocrisy, that, as Tracey said it...that it’s only about the sportsman. The sportsman, at the end of the day, is only a really small pattern, really small mosaic stone, in this whole huge business. The big money is made around them and they must be there in order to make money, but they are easy to exchange.
snip
resection
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Well, that was in that last episode of Barracuda where the... I thought, anyway. It was quite well done. ..where the young man, something had happened to him, bit like watching Nick Kyrgios... (LAUGHS) ..and you just think, “Well, do we just accept that or do we work with...do we work with it?” I don’t know what you think about that, Joerg.
JOERG JAKSCHE
Well, I think the athlete, I think they call it the biographic trap, so the athlete actually identifies themself only via success, in the good ways and in the bad ways, so it means if you’re successful, people like you, they want interviews from you, you get sponsor contracts, you’re very well known. And you reduce yourself to it because your life is so focused on performance, purely on performance, and on the other side, if you’re on the other range, if you are not successful, people don’t want you. You cannot just reduce it to the athlete, it’s the whole system – the public that wants new records, that wants harder Tour de France stages, that want to see more suffering live, spectacular crashes at the Formula One, so the whole concept.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
It’s gorgeous to see Usain Bolt too, of course. I mean, we’ve got to be realistic too. It is fabulous when you see a remarkable talent, isn’t it?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah.
But actually even some of the families need support with the transition. If you are a spouse and you’ve actually been supporting your athlete for 10 years through this journey, you might not actually be ready for what life is going to be like after sport, when that person retires. So, there’s a lot we can do there to make that transition.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Well, that’s what the big football clubs have come to terms with. I mean, Joerg, is this sounding realistic to you?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, so I’m sharing your opinion because...so if you’re an athlete, you’re living actually in a parallel sphere and you have an artificial social circle around you, which suddenly breaks up and in this artificial social circle, you have dependencies. So, your trainer’s dependent from you, you’re dependent from your trainer and there’s a very close relationship. But at the moment when you’re not good enough, your trainer will step on and go to the next athlete. So, in this moment when you’re out of the system, you start at scratch, at zero. You’re in real life and that’s what you never had in sports because everything was about your performance and now, suddenly, it’s about... Like me, I’m going to university, you have to start studying, and there is a lot of pressure and that involved.
thnx Alex
thnx to Alex on cyclingews fora for doing the groundwork.
i see this as analogous to every pro sport, even with the individual anecdotes
oh, and Michael Phelps is just talking some funny motherhood statements about not being sure he was always competing(past tense) in/on level playing field with no doping...
Jorg Jaksche umlaut was a rider for ONCE, Manalo Saiz' ONCE and Libertine Seguros, then he rode for CSC, I think, not sure on that, my memory has failed me, I stopped following cycling qua cycling, i follow cycling doping now tho.
Jaksche was a guest on Australian ABC TV's Compass program a few days ago. It's a program mostly about religion, and faith so not the place you'd expect to hear about doping. They had a program to chat about sport's ethics.
Episode here you can watch:
http://www.abc.net.au/compass/s4498241.htmEpisode here you can watch:
Some quotes from Jorge:
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Well, let’s develop this a little bit more now, in terms of the...what is encouraged, the mentality encouraged. I mean, it does appear, Joerg, that cheating has become commonplace, if I can put it like that. Maybe... You can tell me if I’m wrong. Certainly in your sport of cycling.
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, in cycling, it was always... I always explain it in the way that in 1904, I think that was the first Tour de France, the first three or four riders were disqualified because they took the train, and the fifth rider actually had the same time like the fourth rider, so he must have taken, also, the train but they did not catch him on the train. So, probably he was sitting on the train, on the top of the... I don’t know but, anyway, so, there is a long story about cheating, at least in cycling, and the funny thing about, uh...or the awkward thing about cheating in cycling is that doping has never been seen as cheating. So, we have...
GERALDINE DOOGUE
So, what’s it seen as?
JOERG JAKSCHE
As part of the business, as...
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Seriously?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, yeah.
TRACEY HOLMES
It’s an expectation.
JOERG JAKSCHE
It was...at that time, it was a systematic problem, so you were expected, by your team management, to participate.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
But it’s seen as performance-enhancing, then, is it? Is that how you’d put it?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, yeah.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Like, this is really important. The language matters, doesn’t it?
GAYELENE CLEWS
It’s normalising it, isn’t it?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, you would never talk about doping, you would talk about, um, drugs, of course, but you would never say, “This is doping,” or “This is illegal,” knowing very well that it is illegal. So, my team management at that time from a very big German team, they said to me, “Listen, we think you’re talented, but if you want to be successful in this sport, this is the way how it works. So, you can either participate in this system...” No-one urges you and pushes you...
GERALDINE DOOGUE
It’s your choice.
JOERG JAKSCHE
“It’s your choice. But we will also tell you that the likeliness that you will get another contract after two years is quite low.” And when you’re 19, 20, and you have the dream of participating in the Tour de France or participating at Rio and someone comes and kind of justifies taking drugs or PEDs, and all the entourage around you, so the doctor is involved, the team manager is involved, so everyone knows about it, so they take this bad feeling away from you that you’re cheating because actually everyone else is doing it, it is somehow fine for you and when you cross this line, you’re in the system. You will never get back out of the system.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Well, you outed yourself, didn’t you?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, I outed myself. But...because I was mainly fed up with the hypocrisy, that, as Tracey said it...that it’s only about the sportsman. The sportsman, at the end of the day, is only a really small pattern, really small mosaic stone, in this whole huge business. The big money is made around them and they must be there in order to make money, but they are easy to exchange.
snip
resection
Well, that was in that last episode of Barracuda where the... I thought, anyway. It was quite well done. ..where the young man, something had happened to him, bit like watching Nick Kyrgios... (LAUGHS) ..and you just think, “Well, do we just accept that or do we work with...do we work with it?” I don’t know what you think about that, Joerg.
JOERG JAKSCHE
Well, I think the athlete, I think they call it the biographic trap, so the athlete actually identifies themself only via success, in the good ways and in the bad ways, so it means if you’re successful, people like you, they want interviews from you, you get sponsor contracts, you’re very well known. And you reduce yourself to it because your life is so focused on performance, purely on performance, and on the other side, if you’re on the other range, if you are not successful, people don’t want you. You cannot just reduce it to the athlete, it’s the whole system – the public that wants new records, that wants harder Tour de France stages, that want to see more suffering live, spectacular crashes at the Formula One, so the whole concept.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
It’s gorgeous to see Usain Bolt too, of course. I mean, we’ve got to be realistic too. It is fabulous when you see a remarkable talent, isn’t it?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah.
snip
resection
GAYELENE CLEWSresection
But actually even some of the families need support with the transition. If you are a spouse and you’ve actually been supporting your athlete for 10 years through this journey, you might not actually be ready for what life is going to be like after sport, when that person retires. So, there’s a lot we can do there to make that transition.
GERALDINE DOOGUE
Well, that’s what the big football clubs have come to terms with. I mean, Joerg, is this sounding realistic to you?
JOERG JAKSCHE
Yeah, so I’m sharing your opinion because...so if you’re an athlete, you’re living actually in a parallel sphere and you have an artificial social circle around you, which suddenly breaks up and in this artificial social circle, you have dependencies. So, your trainer’s dependent from you, you’re dependent from your trainer and there’s a very close relationship. But at the moment when you’re not good enough, your trainer will step on and go to the next athlete. So, in this moment when you’re out of the system, you start at scratch, at zero. You’re in real life and that’s what you never had in sports because everything was about your performance and now, suddenly, it’s about... Like me, I’m going to university, you have to start studying, and there is a lot of pressure and that involved.
thnx Alex
FFC_RoyBoys yaco55 RussellEbertHandball
- Thread starter
- #50
see the principal and minor owner Dana White, compare and contrast his photos 2 decades before. obviously a roid head, just like the Fertitta mob brothers who own casinos and the UFC. they like their roids
