Umpiring Eleni Glouftsis should not be umpiring AFL

[Zevon]

A reminder from your friendly neighbourhood moderator that replies to this thread are now on a very tight leash and should be kept to discussion about Eleni’s umpiring abilities only.

Several posts stating or suggesting that Eleni Glouftsis shouldn’t be umpiring solely because she is female have already been removed. Any further posts saying crap like “women are far too emotional to be umpires”, “she’s only umpiring because wokeness is taking over the AFL” etc etc will be removed and infractions given.

You can call us woke, white knights, politically correct or virtue signallers all you want, but the simple fact is that we don’t stand for misogyny here. If that’s not cool with you then you know where the door is.

Thanks, Zev

 

[terrybull]

If you did that then of course they will want to at least attempt it every time.

Problem solved

 

[Chuckie357]

Did she do any “straight back or it’s 50” x about 4 before the ball was handed back?

 

[Cursed Cat]

it's a practice match, let her practice her bouncing.

 

[SplintWhisky]

If you had have watched the practice game today between Port Adelaide and West Coast, you would have seen Eleni stuffed up her centre bounces time and time and time again.
This is a basic umpiring skill. Sure, two or three times a game you could forgive, but the way she continually sent the ball flying in one direction, with one of those being the worst bounce I have ever seen was beyond laughable.

It goes beyond that though, because it wouldn't be so much of a problem if another umpire would just take the bounce and she could umpire one end of the ground. But I'm not sure she's currently competent in the other aspects either. I don't believe she has a proper feel for the game and her interpretations of the rules are at times nonsensical and comical. This is not isolated to a bad game here and there, this is every game I have seen her umpire.

Now I can see the backlash coming for this call, because it is true she does stand out quite a bit as I believe she is the only current female umpire and that may have a subconscious impact on recognising her errors more than the men, who apart from a few personalities like Razor Ray, Dean Margetts, Matt Stevic and Simon Meredith, they all kind of get lost in the crowd I feel and are recognised as a collective. So in that sense it is a bit unfair on her as she is easier to pick out.

But if the male umpires can be criticised when they perform poorly, she must also be held accountable when she is not up to standard.
I'm just asking the question here, do you believe she is umpiring in the highest competition based on merit, or is she there because she makes the AFL look inclusive?

I'm not here with a pitchfork looking to banish her forever, I understand it's important to get women involved in the game and should be given an equal opportunity. I just believe she's not really at the required standard at the moment, she makes too many bad decisions, and hasn't nailed basic techniques such as bouncing the ball, and she probably needs to spend at least a year at a lower level and work on her craft a bit.

Who is responsible for training these umpires, and to what level are they held accountable for performances? Is she really one of the best we have in the whole country?

My mate first brought it up to me and I decided to watch it closely when it did occur. She can't be allowed to be in a West coast game. She is really badly biased towards West Coast and it is just shocking.

 

[Fadge]

it's a practice match, let her practice her bouncing.

I noticed FoxFooty refrained from showing her trying to bounce the ball in the game she umpired this weekend, and instead only returned to the live vision after she had blown her whistle to recall the ball and throw it up.

Wowee.

 

[Fabab]

She is hopeless imo.

 

[martyparty]

Easy solution

Don’t make it a requirement but an option.

Umpires earn an extra $100 for every successful bounce in a match.

Umpires that are great in decisions and can bounce are prioritized for Finals.

Crikey, I’ll put in an avocado towards (all umpires) giving the bounce away, it’s embarrassing to explain the recalls to footy novices.

 

[jim boy]

it's not easy to have an objective discussion

Especially when you don't present anything to measure to achieve objectiveness, outside of the centre bounce, which is irrelevant, your whole argument has been subjective.

 

[HugeJohnson]

Especially when you don't present anything to measure to achieve objectiveness, outside of the centre bounce, which is irrelevant, your whole argument has been subjective.

Well objectively, umpiring as a whole is one of the biggest issues among afl supporters, as evidenced by this recent survey.

Subjectively, to me, Eleni stands out the worst of a bad bunch.

Objectively, she is terrible at bouncing the football.
You call it irrelevant, I disagree.
The action of bouncing the football instead of throwing it up I agree is pointless, the umpires should be free to choose what they want to do. Maybe a ceremonial bounce for the grand final, but outside of that I'd be perfectly happy if they just threw the ****ing thing up every other time. It'd sure save us a few hundred re-dos every season and we'd lose absolutely nothing, but that's not the point. The point is, at the moment this is a requirement for umpires that they must try and bounce the ball first, and as it is currently a requirement, it's pretty embarrassing if they can not execute this skill, supposedly being one of the most elite umpires in the country.

Look, I'm not going to pore through every game she's ever umpired and pick out all her mistakes to make an objective argument, I'm absolutely sure it's possible, but I just don't have the time to piece together all that data and footage. I guess I would just ask you to take note of what I'm putting forward and assess it for yourself next time she umpires a game you watch, you can come to your own conclusion.

 

[ManInWhite]

Easy solution is to scrap the bounce

Do it for the first bounce of the grand final for traditions sake to keep the muppets happy, but it's ridiculous that some umps that are fit and able to adjudicate games might get stuck in the lower league because they can't bounce

I've umpired for 40 years and have always been pro bounce until the past few years. When I started umpiring all competitions bounced and you grew up not knowing anything else. When I went to AFL there was no issue because all my mates and I had been bouncing for years. These days majority of comps don't have a bounce any more and up and coming umpires get promoted to VFL without ever really bouncing at all. From that point they're expected to be perfect. Imagine if players didn't handball in lower comps but only started at VFL / AFL level??

There have certainly been instances of top AFL umpires being delisted over the years who were much better decision makers than their peers - but rated a 4/10 for bouncing. Umpires are there to adjudicate laws of the game - not impart a personal skill into the game. For that reason you don't even have it at the start of grand finals for tradition sake.

Aside from the pros / cons of technique, I'm surprised it hasn't been discarded for years as a workplace safety aspect. It's not ergonomic and places undue pressure on the back. When it is completely avoidable, I'm surprised the insurers haven't said they won't cover umpire back complaints.

 

[Kernafides]

I actually thought she was good when she started...she generally let the game flow...perhaps she was nervous because she has gradually got worse and worse and pays some howlers

 

[Alesana]

Eleni, along with all other Umpires, need to spend some time doing match sim as players. For example, it's so obvious some of them have never tried to kick a ball to someone only to have it come off the side of the boot and go out of bounds unintentionally (ala Cam Zurhaar deliberate after missing a shot at goal). For a sport that relies so heavily on interpretation you should really have experience being in the situations that the players find themselves in. Not saying they have to be former full time players, but at least make it part of their training.

 

[Fadge]

Eleni, along with all other Umpires, need to spend some time doing match sim as players. For example, it's so obvious some of them have never tried to kick a ball to someone only to have it come off the side of the boot and go out of bounds unintentionally (ala Cam Zurhaar deliberate after missing a shot at goal). For a sport that relies so heavily on interpretation you should really have experience being in the situations that the players find themselves in. Not saying they have to be former full time players, but at least make it part of their training.

Great idea. 'Feel for the game' crucial when so many decisions come down to interpretation.

 

[PT Bar None]

I dunno if you watched the Hawks v Cats "Simulation" but most of the centre bounces were botched, with not nearly enough recalled.
I used to prefer the bounce and argued for it to be retained in years past because I thought you got a more aesthetically pleasing ruck contest. Even after the 10m circle came in. But in recent years, the approach by many rucks seems to be to take position and then jump for the ball, same as with ball ups around the ground. So may as well bin the bounce now.

Main issue is no one understands the rules, and even if they did, they change every season, and then have silent "interpretation" tweaks as the season progresses. The rule makers have devised a system based on subjectivity and all teams are now actively breaching rules to advantage because they know there is an upper limit to the volume of free kicks that will be accepted by the AFL community.

I just reckon you notice Eleni more.

 

[martyparty]

I dunno if you watched the Hawks v Cats "Simulation" but most of the centre bounces were botched, with not nearly enough recalled.
I used to prefer the bounce and argued for it to be retained in years past because I thought you got a more aesthetically pleasing ruck contest. Even after the 10m circle came in. But in recent years, the approach by many rucks seems to be to take position and then jump for the ball, same as with ball ups around the ground. So may as well bin the bounce now.

Main issue is no one understands the rules, and even if they did, they change every season, and then have silent "interpretation" tweaks as the season progresses. The rule makers have devised a system based on subjectivity and all teams are now actively breaching rules to advantage because they know there is an upper limit to the volume of free kicks that will be accepted by the AFL community.

I just reckon you notice Eleni more.

Yep, bounce the bounce…. out of footy. It’s unnecessary and the too-many failures are unsightly and embarrassing.

 

[dean33]

What is ridiculous, is that an obscure and random 'skill' such as bouncing an oval ball on the ground so that it bounces about 10 metres straight up in the air - is a fundamental requirement for an umpire.

It's utterly ludicrous.

It's like making a surgeon spin a basketball on their finger before they go in to perform an operation. And if they can't do it, they don't get to be a surgeon. And someone who is good at spinning a basketball on their finger, but is an average surgeon - gets to perform the big operations ahead of others that are much better at actually performing operations.

The relevance of the skill of bouncing the ball to being a good adjudicator of rules is just completely non-existent.


It honestly has to be not only one of the most idiotic things in world sport, but in the world full stop.

Agree 100%. Only sport in the world where the umpires/referees need to have a physical skill to participate. Let them concentrate on actually making the correct decisions not on how well they bounce the ball.
As for Eleni, yes she’s horrendous.

 

[Brasher]

Agree 100%. Only sport in the world where the umpires/referees need to have a physical skill to participate. Let them concentrate on actually making the correct decisions not on how well they bounce the ball.
As for Eleni, yes she’s horrendous.

Ice hockey refs need to know how to skate.

Although it would add to the spectacle if they couldn't.

But to the bounce...as much as it would be a snub at tradition it needs to go, the recalls are embarrassing and waste time and we've already removed the around the grounds bounce anyway.

 

[spenze]

Eh, she's no worse than other umpires and better than that twat that favoured the Bulldogs all the time.

If she can't bounce, don't have her bounce, doesn't seem to be that hard a solution. I've always thought though, there should be an official "bouncer" of the ball at centre bounces, some dude that bench presses 400kgs and is no more than 165cms in height, someone who can make it go 35 metres straight up, maybe 40 and they should have a hang time from a bounce record.

In fact, just get rid of the umpires and players and just have some super strong midget see how high he can bounce a footy for 2 hours, that'd be the balls.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

I think she's improved markedly this season.

 

[HairyO]

We had 2 of the worst umpired games in many, many years this weekend, and Eleni was not involved in either.

AFL umpires are simply not up to the standard that the players are up to. This has been getting worse as worse where the umpires are either going backwards or not going anywhere, while the speed of the game increases and the players try more and more tricks (ie very quick hand movement to disguise a throw) to keep the ball moving.

Eleni is really the least of the problems with the AFL at the moment.

 

[Mop]

Her umpiring is no better or worse than the AFL general standard.

Her bouncing tonight was.. odd. It was consistently swaying to the right.
Is it a technique issue? Or is it just the ground. She wasn’t alone, hers were just more consistently wonky.

I personally think we should just do away with the bounce for the sake of consistency.

 

[spenze]

Her umpiring is no better or worse than the AFL general standard.

Her bouncing tonight was.. odd. It was consistently swaying to the right.
Is it a technique issue? Or is it just the ground. She wasn’t alone, hers were just more consistently wonky.

I personally think we should just do away with the bounce for the sake of consistency.

Either do away with the bounce, or just have one of the 4 umps (whoever is the best) do the bounces. It isn't rocket science but I can see why Gil and his merry band of morons has trouble with it.

 

[boncer34]

Would really help if on coverage her mic was the same volume as the others. It's quite obviously louder.

 

[lordbob]

If the only female umpire cant bounce the ball properly then we should do away with the bounce?

Just because some umpires who make good decisions cant bounce the ball well doesnt mean you change the game to accommodate them. There are 3 main skills an umpire needs: ability to make good decisions, fitness/speed to keep up with the play, being able to bounce a ball.

If a player cant handball, but can do everything else well, should we change the rules of the game to remove the handball? thats ridiculous.

Umpires have been bouncing the ball long before the current generation having been alive. IF they arent good enough at any part of their job then they need to get better, the game doesnt need to get worse.

 

[Mop]

If the only female umpire cant bounce the ball properly then we should do away with the bounce?

your argument fell over there.
Most umpires can’t bounce the ball.

The WAFL has done away with it altogether - only a matter of time before that spreads