Test England vs West Indies - 3 tests

[Plugger35]

Now he knocks Seales off stump out of the ground after softening him up with a bouncer, top class fast bowling.

 

[Plugger35]

Another jaffa from Wood to get a 5'fer, this should be an easy run chase for England unless a Windies bowler can bowl like Wood.

 

[PhatBoy]

I know my side is prone so some ordinary lower (and upper) order capitulations but to be fair that owed as much to Mark Wood’s bowling as our batting.

Great spell.

As a side note, while we made him look good in the second innings in Trent Bridge and he had some moments in India, England have absolute rocks in their heads if they are pinning their hopes on Bashir towards the Ashes. Personally I think he would get annihilated in Australia

 

[Bedi]

so disappointing, but fair play to Eng fighting back from 5/54

 

[Bedi]

Another jaffa from Wood to get a 5'fer, this should be an easy run chase for England unless a Windies bowler can bowl like Wood.

Unlikely, but im not willing to completely discount it

 

[Plugger35]

Stokes opening and he isn't mucking around.

 

[PhatBoy]

Stokes bats with a ferocity that no one in the game can match when he’s in this sort of mood.

I hate watching Joseph when this happens. He looks defeated really quickly. He bowls almost as quickly as Mark Wood at his quickest.

I can’t imagine Wood or Anrich Nortje copping this from a batsman and looking so forlorn.

Run in and badge him.

 

[Bedi]

Had to open with Shamar Joseph

 

[PhatBoy]

Had to open with Shamar Joseph

Tend to agree. It’s a problem with Brathwaite and always has been, he’s very structured with his leadership.

 

[Plugger35]

The Windies bowlers have waved the white flag, they are getting Bazballed.

They were on a hiding to nothing trying to defend this lead though.

 

[PhatBoy]

Not sure if that was a plan or not Jason but I don’t think it worked

 

[Plugger35]

Shamar Joseph bowling too late and batting too late, wouldn't have made much difference to the result but it might have helped.

Brathwaite asleep at the wheel.

 

[PhatBoy]

The Windies bowlers have waved the white flag, they are getting Bazballed.

They were on a hiding to nothing trying to defend this lead though.

Look I’m going to defend us here:

We rolled England for 360 or so in the first test when they got by far the best of the batting conditions, if we didn’t drop Ollie Pope four times at Nottingham they probably don’t pass 320 or so in the first innings and we stuck at it to keep them to 400 in the second on a flat pitch with nothing doing, and we had them under the pump here looking at a sub-300 score here before Smith and Woakes’ 8th wicket stand.

It’s worked for them again so fair play to them but we’ve done ok against the tactic overall

 

[Plugger35]

Look I’m going to defend us here:

We rolled England for 360 or so in the first test when they got by far the best of the batting conditions, if we didn’t drop Ollie Pope four times at Nottingham they probably don’t pass 320 or so in the first innings and we stuck at it to keep them to 400 in the second on a flat pitch with nothing doing, and we had them under the pump here looking at a sub-300 score here before Smith and Woakes’ 8th wicket stand.

It’s worked for them again so fair play to them but we’ve done ok against the tactic overall

Your mob had their moments in this series but couldn't string enough of them together to win a test and avoid a clean sweep.

Even my mob lost our test series in a clean sweep to England there a couple of years ago but we were still more competitive.

England are tough to beat there, they would have beaten Australia in the Ashes series last year if it didn't rain in the 4th test.

 

[PhatBoy]

Your mob had their moments in this series but couldn't string enough of them together to win a test and avoid a clean sweep.

Even my mob lost our test series in a clean sweep to England there a couple of years ago but we were still more competitive.

England are tough to beat there, they would have beaten Australia in the Ashes series last year if it didn't rain in the 4th test.

Well you’re a better team than we are so it stands to reason you’d be a more solid test for them but I did have high hopes we might upset them in one match.

We haven’t encountered a team playing like that before and England if nothing else have complete faith in their method. It might not always work as their defeat in India, and their draws in NZ and in the Ashes showed, but it almost always ensures that the opposition HAS to come up with something good to win. Even India, as much as they ultimately dominated that series, needed those knocks from Jaiswal etc to secure that big 4-1 win etc.

It puts you under pressure. As a very young side WI struggle at the best of times let alone when a side relentlessly attacks you. You get through 2-3 batsmen and there’s 2 more who are just attacking you any moment you aren’t pinpoint accurate, and in the middle of it all is Root who frankly is on another level to any batsman in the world IMO at the moment, with due respect to your man Kane who I respect immensely but hasn’t quite delivered on as broad a spectrum as Root has, Australia excepted.

Brathwaite showed a few signs that he’s regaining a LITTLE bit of touch with the bat, he is never going to be a dominant batsman but he looks much better when he’s trying to score. Louis has done more than enough to retain his spot for the SA series. McKenzie might be jettisoned for that series but I still think he has enough ability if he can work on his defence. He showed a bit in Australia. Athanaze definitely has the talent and showed that in the second test. Hodge has to stay, that’s a no brainer.
Holder was good in the second test and the first innings of this one which was good to see. His bowling was all over the place and as I said earlier clearly he lacks red ball form. I am not sure what the solution is there between now and SA.

We missed Roach, there was no doubting that, and one of the commentators said words to the same effect as the game started to get out of reach yesterday evening.

JDS batted well at times and has put that lengthy slump behind him.

Motie bowled reasonably well.

All the quicks had their moments at times but as the commentators all noted, building up dot balls over after over was a problem. But that’s what England do - they make it almost impossible to do that because of how they come at you. I think that will be less of an issue against other sides.

But it’s a problem regardless; both Joseph’s are not noted for being economical. Having control and being able to keep a team to 0-60 in a session where wickets are hard to come by is a skill that a good test team needs to develop and we don’t have it.

I hope we stick with this young side and bring Roach back into the mix, possibly look at bringing Kevin Wickham in for Kirk McKenzie for now - he has a first class average in the 40s which is rare for the West Indies, from about 20 matches, he’s only 22, has hit centuries which again is rare. The other one they could maybe take a real punt on is Jewel Andrew. He’s three months shy of 18, but has absolutely obliterated under 19s cricket at some stupid strike rates, has only played a handful of first class games with a few 70s and 80s, but already has a List A highest score of 143. Not sure if he’d be ready to face Rabada, Nortje, Coetzee and Jansen but I doubt he’d be scared.

 

[Plugger35]

McCullum looks like a midget standing next to Stuart Broad.

I don't think McCullum is that short but Broad is deceptively tall, you don't notice it until he is standing next to some batsmen.

Even Athers looks short compared to him and Ian Bishop and Athers isn't short by batsmen's standards, he would be close to 6ft.

 

[Jatz]

Ultimately disappointing again from the Windies. There are some positive signs there but just too much left to too few.

 

[PhatBoy]

Ultimately disappointing again from the Windies. There are some positive signs there but just too much left to too few.

Aside from the obvious explanation of inexperience, the simplest terms you could put it in is this:

An inability to withstand pressure. That’s it. You watch a dismissal like Brathwaite’s in the second innings where he cops a good ball but makes a jittery attempt to keep it out, and for such an experienced player with an awkward but stout defence you just look at it and think ‘the same ball but without a 94 run deficit would not dismiss him.’
Like an even less reliable version of Pakistan. Probably why we generally match up well with them

I just really, really hope there is no step backwards towards a Shai Hope or someone though I don’t think that is on the cards as he didn’t play in the four day comp. Nor Chanderpaul for that matter for the time being: he needs to earn his spot back if he wants it

 

[ioppolo]

Aside from the obvious explanation of inexperience, the simplest terms you could put it in is this:

An inability to withstand pressure. That’s it. You watch a dismissal like Brathwaite’s in the second innings where he cops a good ball but makes a jittery attempt to keep it out, and for such an experienced player with an awkward but stout defence you just look at it and think ‘the same ball but without a 94 run deficit would not dismiss him.’
Like an even less reliable version of Pakistan. Probably why we generally match up well with them

I just really, really hope there is no step backwards towards a Shai Hope or someone though I don’t think that is on the cards as he didn’t play in the four day comp. Nor Chanderpaul for that matter for the time being: he needs to earn his spot back if he wants it

The middle order is a serious concern still. Hodge looks capable, Louis had a decent debut tour. But Athanaze and McKenzie....ehh. Holder probably shouldn't be at six. Is Kevin Sinclair capable of batting higher?

 

[PhatBoy]

The middle order is a serious concern still. Hodge looks capable, Louis had a decent debut tour. But Athanaze and McKenzie....ehh. Holder probably shouldn't be at six. Is Kevin Sinclair capable of batting higher?

Sinclair had a good season at home over the duration of the championship - made 500+ at over 40 from memory but his first class record is low or mid 30s I think.

Holder at the moment probably doesn’t look like a 6 but his best is easily. He just needs some rhythm back I think. Athanaze will get there. McKenzie’s spot is the hardest one. He’s got all the shots. He doesn’t have the defensive technique at all at the moment

Remember too these guys in this current iteration of the side which is only 5 tests old, have had their start to test cricket against Australia in two bowler friendly games, one against the pink ball against Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon, and then 3 in England against the Dukes ball against Anderson in one test, along with home-version Woakes, Wood, fully fit Stokes back bowling at 140kph, and Atkinson who looks more than handy.

Bashir I’m still filthy about losing 5 wickets in an innings to as he looks to me to be nothing special.

So you’d have to think aside from a trip to face Ashwin and Jadeja, or the SA speed freaks on a Wanderers flyer or Capetown green top, that it WILL get easier for them.

 

[Around the Wicket]

Windies won't play Tests for much longer, they'll drop out and concentrate on becoming the best T20 side.

 

[PhatBoy]

Windies won't play Tests for much longer, they'll drop out and concentrate on becoming the best T20 side.

Sure they won’t. I know if I was planning on heading in that direction as a governing body I’d add two teams to the first class competition and extend the season and implement a new A team structure.

Our results might not be going anywhere but neither is our presence in test cricket.

 

[Gethelred]

Mikyle Louis looks absolutely sensational on the front foot - to the point of possessing the most attractive right handed off drive in world cricket - but very, very ordinary off the back foot.

 

[PhatBoy]

Mikyle Louis looks absolutely sensational on the front foot - to the point of possessing the most attractive right handed off drive in world cricket - but very, very ordinary off the back foot.

Yeah he’s a hanger. I didn’t get to watch much of the first test (probably for the best) aside from the England innings. He’s guilty of the same sin a lot of these guys are in sparring at it for no reason and without any movement towards the ball. A guy like, say Holder for example. He will play at balls off the back foot that he doesn’t have to but he will actually employ a traditional back and across movement and get in line with the ball and handle it comfortably as often as not.

They’ve dispensed with McKenzie for the SA series and IMO done the right thing for now and given Alzarri a spell in favour of Roach coming back. Though ironically this might have been a good chance for Joseph to work on being less profligate given that Markram aside, SA don’t possess a lot of real dangerous stroke players that can pile pressure on at the moment

 

[Gethelred]

Yeah he’s a hanger. I didn’t get to watch much of the first test (probably for the best) aside from the England innings. He’s guilty of the same sin a lot of these guys are in sparring at it for no reason and without any movement towards the ball. A guy like, say Holder for example. He will play at balls off the back foot that he doesn’t have to but he will actually employ a traditional back and across movement and get in line with the ball and handle it comfortably as often as not.

They’ve dispensed with McKenzie for the SA series and IMO done the right thing for now and given Alzarri a spell in favour of Roach coming back. Though ironically this might have been a good chance for Joseph to work on being less profligate given that Markram aside, SA don’t possess a lot of real dangerous stroke players that can pile pressure on at the moment

He reads as a no.3 rather than an opener, which suits as Chanderpaul - for all my criticisms of that technique - is more an opener than he is. Braithwaite, CP, Louis is a fair bit stronger than anything the Windies have had for quite a while.

He's not without his strokes, and there's plenty there. Just needs - genuinely - to spend as many balls in the middle as possible.