Mega Thread Essendon's punishment - Opinion, theories etc

[entourage]

To suggest that Essendons winning form this year could not possibly be as a result of their drug program last year is naive. It is absolutely a possibility that is the case. To dismiss it out of hand is ridiculous.

Your team has galvanised under the mistaken belief that they did nothing wrong and Hird would never put them in harms way as the media is suggesting.

In fact last year Hird said during the year that while the soft tissue injuries were hurting them in year 1 of their program it should benefit them in years 2, 3 and 4. He said something along those lines.

So not only is it naive, it's just plain wrong.

 

[lemon chicken]

.....but all Australian?

Did you ever think Ted Richards would be AA?

 

[Slax]

.....but all Australian?

Who's in front of him at the moment? If they were picking AA now I'd be putting money on Carlisle to be in it.

 

[blured]

They're not relevant to your argument, because your argument is full of more holes than a block of swiss cheese.

Cronulla are shit in 2013. And a shit team that allegedly took banned substances in 2012, who then performs poorly in 2013 doesn't t fit your wild, stupid suggestion that those banned substances then assisted that team in 2013. Your argument falls to pieces.

This ridiculously long bow that is being drawn has to stop. Immediately.

The same people that take this long bow are probably the same type of people that believe in conspiracy theories.

It shows a compete lack of respect, and a total disregard for common-sense.

classic defense of the indefensible from dan26

 

[teknodeejay]

Well this kind of thing has never been seen before but you'd imagine it is more serious than any Salary Cap rorting (which, yes my club stupidly did and was rightly punished for) or Tanking rorting...

With that said, this might be more of a hope than what I think will happen.

Zero points and loss of draft picks in 2013.
Play for zero points in 2014.
Players who are indicted are banned from training with or playing with any AFL club until Round 6, 2014.
Jobe Watson is relinquished of any accolades and his name stripped from the 2012 awards page.
Any official at Essendon who was present at the time this occurred and were in a position to intervene or influence the playing group are stood down for 2 years from holding a position at a sporting club (I imagine that Hird, Thompson, Evans and Reid would be the four major candidates but certainly not limited to).
$1M Fine to the Essendon Football Club (peanuts, but it'll just top up Vlad's bonus).

 

[Big Sim]

Think its obvious now that its all about saving the players, which is essential for the interests of the players themselves, the club and the AFL. All of these parties and their team of hotshot lawyers would be working towards this outcome.

I imagine that was what Tim Watson said when he believed there would be a positive outcome, but serious sanctions. He is talking about the positive outcome of no ban for Jobe but sanctions for the club.

But it is hard to see how WADA could set a precedent of players having taken banned substance and getting off because they plead ignorance. Nice old can of worms there and one they previously welded shut by making sportsmen and women absolutely responsible for what goes in their own bodies.

Really hard to know how this will end. One of the most telling facts to emerge from the whole debacle is that nobody seems to trust the AFL to do the right thing.

 

[DonsRule]

And let's not forget they move Carlisle up forward during games and he pays CHF like Carey. Has turned at least 2 games this year.

Carlisles improvement over 14 months as been breath taking. I am hoping he may be one of the players who didnt sign the waivers or took placebos because he is a super gun at the moment

A few of the VFL watchers picked him a few years ago as a start, and would be better than most KPP at Essendon. It's been building a lot longer, I think.

 

[fleabitten]

Of course they bloody well don't.

To suggest that what they might have done in 2012 is somehow causing them to win games in 2013, is not just wrong, but blatantly insulting. It's drawing a bow so long, it could go around the world.

It's an abhorrent suggestion. Abhorrent.

If you can't see how insulting it is, then you should take a long hard look at yourself.

LOL

It's a perfectly natural suggestion and most likely true. I think you're the one who needs to take a long hard look at some things (like your club).

 

[Hawthorn United]

You may be correct on that.

But you have to admit that the bulk of the football public at the moment don't know what to think about how your players are performing

Even the soft tissue injuries your club was plagued with in the recent past needs to be looked at for reasons why?

Now this season, since the program has stopped, the injuries have suddenly disappeared.

 

[Hawthorn United]

Well, whenever they come storming home to record a remarkable come from behind win, that's when I cringe. Worse when the commentators start talking up what a great performance, through such adversity and controversy. Very brave.

 

[Thrawn]

Well, whenever they come storming home to record a remarkable come from behind win, that's when I cringe. Worse when the commentators start talking up what a great performance, through such adversity and controversy. Very brave.

It made me pretty sick when we played them.

 

[Stax on the mill]

If and when the Bombers are found guilty of any infractions I hope the AFL are scrupulously transparent in determining scope of penalties. It is imperative, that due to their long association with Essendon, AFL Commissioners Bill Kelty and Linda Dessau have no input, either formally or by using their influence behind the scenes.

The integrity of the AFL and the competition is at stake here. If the Bombers are found guilty the other clubs and supporters are not going to wear Essendon getting thrashed with a limp lettuce leaf.

 

[jim boy]

Players involved suspended for 6 months in competition.
James Hird banned from coaching for 3 years by AFL
Mark Thompson banned for 12 months
Stephen Dank banned from any invovlement with any AFL club for life.
Essendon FC stripped of all points for 2012 & 2013 season, with records also to be annulled
Essendon FC to play for no premiership points in 2014 (ala Melbourne Storm)
Essendon FC fined $2m
Essendon FC banned from Round 1 & 2 of draft for 2013, 2014 & 2015 National Draft.
Essendon FC banned from signing any player under free agency for same period.
Essendon FC lose rights to ANZAC Day match permanently. (the AFL don't want their showpiece H&A match in Melbourne to be a farce)

Along the lines of what I am thinking. Regardless of the findings of ASADA, there is no question that the Bombers have brought the game into disrepute. I only have to listen to kids at the local primary school who all call the Bomber's drug cheats, that they should even think that is a damning indictment of where they have taken the game. Subsequently the AFL need to be ferocious in its response so that no club ever contemplates such a fool-hardy path again.

Changes I'd make though

* Players to have no sanctions unless they knowingly participated or showed recklessness in decision making.
* Club officials including Hird, Evans, Thompson, Corcoran and anyone else involved to have 5 year bans from having any official capacity with any football club.
* Club fined $10 million - Essendon always boast about their wealth so a fine has got to hurt.
* Club stripped of all points for this season and next.
* Club to have last place in draft, but still participate in all rounds - they cant be excluded from free agency, would be a restraint of trade and pointless excluding them early rounds in the age of free trade and they still have a salary cap to pay.
* ANZAC day - I wouldn't punish them here although I detest the exploitation of those who died by those seeking simply to enlarge their wallets.

 

[Keys]

In any case, sporting code violations and sanctions are the least of essendon s worries in my view.

There is something very serious on the legal front bubbling away in the background. And it will surface once the trivial sanction process is sorted out.

Which is?

 

[HawkMongrel]

Players involved suspended for 6 months in competition.
James Hird banned from coaching for 3 years by AFL
Mark Thompson banned for 12 months
Stephen Dank banned from any invovlement with any AFL club for life.
Essendon FC stripped of all points for 2012 & 2013 season, with records also to be annulled
Essendon FC to play for no premiership points in 2014 (ala Melbourne Storm)
Essendon FC fined $2m
Essendon FC banned from Round 1 & 2 of draft for 2013, 2014 & 2015 National Draft.
Essendon FC banned from signing any player under free agency for same period.
Essendon FC lose rights to ANZAC Day match permanently. (the AFL don't want their showpiece H&A match in Melbourne to be a farce)

The perfect punishment.

Will never happen though, as at each point you list I see a shitload of money that the AFL stands to lose as a result.

 

[DrEvil]

Along the lines of what I am thinking. Regardless of the findings of ASADA, there is no question that the Bombers have brought the game into disrepute. I only have to listen to kids at the local primary school who all call the Bomber's drug cheats, that they should even think that is a damning indictment of where they have taken the game. Subsequently the AFL need to be ferocious in its response so that no club ever contemplates such a fool-hardy path again.

Changes I'd make though

* Players to have no sanctions unless they knowingly participated or showed recklessness in decision making.
* Club officials including Hird, Evans, Thompson, Corcoran and anyone else involved to have 5 year bans from having any official capacity with any football club.
* Club fined $10 million - Essendon always boast about their wealth so a fine has got to hurt.
* Club stripped of all points for this season and next.
* Club to have last place in draft, but still participate in all rounds - they cant be excluded from free agency, would be a restraint of trade and pointless excluding them early rounds in the age of free trade and they still have a salary cap to pay.
* ANZAC day - I wouldn't punish them here although I detest the exploitation of those who died by those seeking simply to enlarge their wallets.

Fines are meaningless. If Essendon is in finacial trouble they will simply get an AFL handout. Look at Melbourne, 500000 fine one minute, them 3 mil handout.

 

[Hawthorn United]

Fines are meaningless. If Essendon is in finacial trouble they will simply get an AFL handout. Look at Melbourne, 500000 fine one minute, them 3 mil handout.

Fines are the AFLs way of making it look like they're being hard on something and make the average Joe think justice has been done, when in reality its a lenient sentence.

 

[Gough]

They should be made to swap infrastructure and staff with the Dees.

 

[Hawthorn United]

Disband them.

Make them start up again like GC and GWS. Current players can go into the drafts and free agency for other clubs to take.

Clean start.

 

[jim boy]

The ASADA/WADA code and regulations are very clear on who is responsible for what is injected into the bodies of athletes. I am only aware of one scenario whereby an athlete can escape sanction for being found guilty of taking a banned substance and thats sabotage by another athlete. And I don't think this escape clause is applicable to the EFC situation.

I meant to say that players face whatever ASADA sanctions get imposed as per the AFL's obligations under its signing of the WADA pact and that the AFL should not put on further penalty.

 

[Slax]

The perfect punishment.

Will never happen though, as at each point you list I see a shitload of money that the AFL stands to lose as a result.

Turning ANZAC Day match into a game which Collingwood will win by 90 points for each of the next 5 years is definitely something that the AFL can't afford, crowds will drop to 50,000, the ratings will drop and Channel 7 will be pissed, corporates will walk away in their droves. The created one ANZAC Day they can create another. Say Collingwood v highest finishing Melbourne based team from previous year? Will still get 80k+

 

[Hawthorn United]

Turning ANZAC Day match into a game which Collingwood will win by 90 points for each of the next 5 years is definitely something that the AFL can't afford, crowds will drop to 50,000, the ratings will drop and Channel 7 will be pissed, corporates will walk away in their droves. The created one ANZAC Day they can create another. Say Collingwood v highest finishing Melbourne based team from previous year? Will still get 80k+

If this is factored into the AFL punishment, then our game is a farce.

 

[teknodeejay]

Why would Dermie cringe if you win?

Because he absolutely loathes Essendon, even on a non cheating day.

He cringes whenever he has to read out their team sheet on League Teams.

 

[jim boy]

Fines are the AFLs way of making it look like they're being hard on something and make the average Joe think justice has been done, when in reality its a lenient sentence.

Sort of true, sort of not true. A $10 million dollar fine would impact the football department spend, it would also bring into question continued public funding of such things like the new training centre. Also the the average essendon member Joe would rightly want to know why they should be giving money to administration that squanders it so spectacularly and should demand changes.

 

[floki]

Call me an old fashioned roman traditionalist but i feel the playing list should be subjected to decimation, the coaches and staff scourged and crucified (upside down) along Batman avenue as a lesson to all and the board flayed around the MCG as half time entertainment.