Essendons Strengths & Weaknesses

[Daytripper]

We've had that every year since about 1930.

Another thing also.

A lot of people want C'wood to fail and if someone even gives them half a chance to make them think thats going to happen they jump on it and start beleiving it themselves.

Essendon falls into the same boat.

 

[doppleganger]

There was a perception out there that C'wood were fairly average and had got the most out of their ability to make the finals that season.

The perception was all based on the one finals game.

People just forgot about the entire season when the pies were flying for most of the year. But because of one bad finals game all of a sudden the pies were rubbish.

That perception spread quickly and very shortly everyone was predicting their demise in case they looked stupid if they did finish in the bottom four. If you predict the same way everyone else is predicting then its hard to be made to look foolish.

Agree that general trends seem to sweep through.

Same thing is happening with Essendon. There is a perception that they are too slow and there is not enough depth coming through. Some people have pencilled them in for the bottom four so now everyone is doing the same thing.

The Essendon perception aint based on one bad finals game. It is based on 3 years of mediocre football, and the fact that most of its key senior players had good years in 07 and they still missed the finals.

The truth is the top eight fluctuates wildly and basically I would not be surprised if any team made or missed the 8 (with the exception of Geelong missing).

Again i agree, injuries will ruin a couple of teams seasons and people that just spit out similar ladders to 07 for their 08 predictions are clueless.

 

[Daytripper]

The Essendon perception aint based on one bad finals game. It is based on 3 years of mediocre football, and the fact that most of its key senior players had good years in 07 and they still missed the finals.

Lucas and Fletcher were outstanding, Hird was good (not great) but missed a few games. Lloyd was fairly poor (by his standards) I thought, McPhee can do a lot better than he showed last season and Hille was very ordinary.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Another thing also.

A lot of people want C'wood to fail and if someone even gives them half a chance to make them think thats going to happen they jump on it and start beleiving it themselves.

Essendon falls into the same boat.

Essendon have never been written off , not even by their fiercest haters. Not until a year or so, anyway.

Its not unrealistic to expect the worst of the Bombers next year. You cant rely on Lloyd and Fletcher forever. Your mid aged players like Johnson Hille Peverill Lovett McPhee Lovett-Murray and Watson have failed to improve. Your talented younger players are just too few in number, and too young and skinny in some cases, to be relied upon in season 2008. They have an untried coach who played at a club with a history of chronic failure.

You can argue the case all you like - thats the purpose of this thread - but there are plenty of reasons to wonder how they'll find any upside next year.

 

[Longy413]

Yes. We have plenty of quality candidates. Not sure what part of that you're not understanding.

What's to understand?

You haven't actually said anything.

 

[Daytripper]

Essendon have never been written off , not even by their fiercest haters. Not until a year or so, anyway.

Its not unrealistic to expect the worst of the Bombers next year. You cant rely on Lloyd and Fletcher forever. Your mid aged players like Johnson Hille Peverill Lovett McPhee Lovett-Murray and Watson have failed to improve. Your talented younger players are just too few in number, and too young and skinny in some cases, to be relied upon in season 2008. They have an untried coach who played at a club with a history of chronic failure.

You can argue the case all you like - thats the purpose of this thread - but there are plenty of reasons to wonder how they'll find any upside next year.

I'm sorry - that post just demonstrates a lack of understanding of the clubs list which leads me think you're just following the crowd. For example exactly how old do you think 'mid-aged' players like McPhee, Watson, Hille and Lovett are ?

You also left out a guy called Lucas but anyway.

Don't worry - a lot of people do it. And hey, if you're wrong so everyone else will be too.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

What's to understand?

You haven't actually said anything.

I'd prefer Burns despite it being a short term appointment
I'd be happy with Maxwell, Lockyer, or Fraser. They are all quality candidates. So too are Shaw Cloke and Pendlebury, but they are still a bit young.

You'd want to hope Lloyd doesnt get hit by a bus - theres a massive leadership hole at the Bombers.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I For example exactly how old do you think 'mid-aged' players like McPhee, Watson, Hille and Lovett are ?.

Old enough to be a lot better contributors on the park than they are. They have gone backwards.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You also left out a guy called Lucas but anyway.

I left him off my list of under-perfomers because he's not an underperformer. He's your best player by a mile.

 

[doppleganger]

Lucas and Fletcher were outstanding, Hird was good (not great) but missed a few games. Lloyd was fairly poor (by his standards) I thought, McPhee can do a lot better than he showed last season and Hille was very ordinary.

Never mentioned anything bout being outstanding

If at the start of the year you were given the output of the senior players as what occured in 07 at the dons every team would have jumped at it!

Other struggling teams like Melbourne, Richmond had much worse runs with injury to key players than the dons in 07.

 

[Longy413]

You'd want to hope Lloyd doesnt get hit by a bus - theres a massive leadership hole at the Bombers.

There is?

Even with Lucas, Fletcher and Michael?

Even with McVeigh?

What do you know of the leadership qualities of Slattery, Stanton, Monfries, McPhee.

Leadership is not a weakness.

Old enough to be a lot better contributors on the park than they are. They have gone backwards.

You obviously didn't see (a fit) Lovett's finish to the season.
Watson has played two full seasons of footy and improved in each.

McPhee has gone backwards. Hille hasn't, he just hasn't gone forwards.

 

[doppleganger]

I'm sorry - that post just demonstrates a lack of understanding of the clubs list which leads me think you're just following the crowd. For example exactly how old do you think 'mid-aged' players like McPhee, Watson, Hille and Lovett are ?

The particular ages aint that important

blokes like Hille, McPhee, McVeigh, Welsh, Lovett should be the backbone of ur team.

McPhee has stagnated big time
Hille has been overtaken by Laycock
McVeigh the one success
Welsh, he is good value IMO but not in many dons fans
Lovett is decent

No stand out blokes in that bunch, and you need em desperately.

 

[Longy413]

The particular ages aint that important

blokes like Hille, McPhee, McVeigh, Welsh, Lovett should be the backbone of ur team.

Why can't 20-23 year olds be included in your "backbone"?

 

[bomberstomake8]

Essendon have never been written off , not even by their fiercest haters. Not until a year or so, anyway.

Its not unrealistic to expect the worst of the Bombers next year. You cant rely on Lloyd and Fletcher forever. Your mid aged players like Johnson Hille Peverill Lovett McPhee Lovett-Murray and Watson have failed to improve. Your talented younger players are just too few in number, and too young and skinny in some cases, to be relied upon in season 2008. They have an untried coach who played at a club with a history of chronic failure.

You can argue the case all you like - thats the purpose of this thread - but there are plenty of reasons to wonder how they'll find any upside next year.

If you dont think Watson has improved i would ask you to go and have a look at how he started... he was overweight could hardly run or kick, pretty much no other club would have picked him up.. he has improved out of sight. Secondly how old do you think Johnson and peverill are (they are not middle aged players), no essendon player is saying they are good in fact most of us dont see them as a part of our future any longer, maybe for that extra depth..

lovett-murray was out for most of last year through injury however he had also improved significantly in 2006, mcphee had a down year as did hille..

and we dont need to rely on fletcher and lloyd forever, they will be first class until the day they retire which by then i would assume gumbelton ryder etc will be ready to fill the void...

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

The particular ages aint that important

blokes like Hille, McPhee, McVeigh, Welsh, Lovett should be the backbone of ur team.

McPhee has stagnated big time - Contrary to popular BF belief he had a good year last year
Hille has been overtaken by Laycock - Great news
McVeigh the one success
Welsh, he is good value IMO but not in many dons fans - I don't rate him that high
Lovett is decent - He's only played 49 games and is cherry ripe to get better as he was a late starter to AFL.

No stand out blokes in that bunch, and you need em desperately.

Plenty of guys who are in there early to mid 20's and ready to lead the team back to the finals - Stanton, Winderlich, Watson, Nash, Slattery, Laycock, Davey, etc, etc

 

[doppleganger]

Why can't 20-23 year olds be included in your "backbone"?

They can be and at Essendon the likes of Stanton and Watson shows that they already are.....also shows how poor the more senior group actually are.

 

[Longy413]

They can be and at Essendon the likes of Stanton and Watson shows that they already are.....also shows how poor the more senior group actually are.

You'd have to say Collingwood have a poor senior group then, wouldn't you?

 

[doppleganger]

You'd have to say Collingwood have a poor senior group then, wouldn't you?

Pies mid aged group struggled with injury in 07

In 06 Didak, Fraser and B.Johnson all played extremely well and finished high up in the Copeland.

Like the dons our mid age group aint as good as hoped, but those three are better than any of the dons players bar McVeigh.

 

[wazzabp]

Our biggest weakness is definately our midfield. The young midfielders really need to come on asap. We need to throw a few young guys into the midfield and take a chance that 1 or 2 step up. If it costs us a few games then so be it, that rebuilding. I was disappointed that Bachar Houli wasn't given few more games as he showed some glimpes that he could be a super player.
My only disappointment with Sheedy over the last couple of seasons was not throwing more of the young guys into the side asap, he seemed to hold them back, and play his favourites, despite good performances by these young guys at Bendigo.
But what he did do right was to grab a decent number of young potential star midfielders, now its up to Knights to put them to the test.

 

[Longy413]

So injuries to McPhee and Rama count for nothing.

Glad we're finally sorting this out.

Johnson and Fraser aren't better than McPhee.

 

[doppleganger]

So injuries to McPhee and Rama count for nothing.

Johnson and Fraser aren't better than McPhee.

Who says they count for nothing?

2006 Copleand Trophy

1st Didak
Equal 2nd - B.Johnson
Equal 4th - J.Fraser

They carried the team in 06

Then in 07 can add in T.Cloke, H.Shaw, Pendles, Swan, Thomas who were in the top 6

8 names of guys who are not old have been our best players, and we are playing finals in both years.

The dons have same old names like Lucas, Fletcher, Hird and they are missing finals........the dons strength is its old blokes, pies strength is our young kids.

not sure why you keep trying to compare the dons to the pies, nothing like each other.

 

[Longy413]

not sure why you keep trying to compare the dons to the pies, nothing like each other.

You keep changing your story.

You went on a tangent about our mid-aged players being a weakness.
But Collingwood are a fine example of that meaning nothing.

Lists have changed since the 90's.

Rama and McPhee are better footballers than Fraser and Johnson.
Didak is a top 20 players waiting to happen.

And before it comes up, Rama's testing times are all better than where he was before he got cancer. His skills haven't depleted in the slightest, he's every chance to return to his best or better.

You keep making claims that are unjustified.

Our midfield is crap, yep get it.
We have a lot of unproven players, yep get it.

Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher are our best players, yep get it. (Despite that not being a weakness, purely because they are ****ing guns).

You mention a guy like Swan, yet you don't forward the same kind of development opportunities to someone like Lovett.

But you keep digging into other areas and going around in circles that just don't make sense.

 

[doppleganger]

You went on a tangent about our mid-aged players being a weakness.
But Collingwood are a fine example of that meaning nothing.

They are Essendon's weakness.
When is the last time that any of those blokes who are mid aged have dominated the Essendon BnF?

Pies it was in 2006.

Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher are our best players, yep get it. (Despite that not being a weakness, purely because they are ****ing guns).

Yep ur senior blokes are ur strength, the pies senior blokes are role players now.

But you keep digging into other areas and going around in circles that just don't make sense.

Nope, Essendon's mid tier aint as good as other clubs, it will again cost em in 08 as the young kids either aren't ready or simply not good enough to take the team to the finals.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Nope, Essendon's mid tier aint as good as other clubs, it will again cost em in 08 as the young kids either aren't ready or simply not good enough to take the team to the finals.

wow, you must have an amazing knowledge of Essendon to be able to say that!!

 

[Daytripper]

Makes you wonder how Collingwood went from 15th in 2005 to the finals the following year.
Or how Nth and Port were written off pre 2007 only to finish 2nd and 3rd the next season.

According to Big Footy wisdom these teams should still be in the bottom 4.