Expansion AND Contraction. AFL Teams.

[Moo]

Ahhh the passions of the future team debate.

I must admit I am a supporter of the thousand cuts approach.

The game of football is in great shape, and the AFL is a wonderful competition – I am very happy and grateful that a team that represents my spiritual football homeland exists (and equally that West Corp team acts as a magnet that lifts and removes people who spend more time polishing their monocles than watching number that number 23 gentleman run around).

I would not suggest moving the GF from the MCG ….it is a concession to the spiritual home of the game.

In regards to cutting/merging/re-locating teams ….it is a very difficult and emotional issue and one that should be respectfully treated. Economically – the reduction of a selected Melb team would in the long term affect the game very marginally. Jeff you may stop attending but your kids/next generations would be back into it, I mean I go to a couple of Glory and Force games but Footy is just so much better it is not funny.

I think the key is to go as slow and steady as possible. To me expansion into the GC is the right one, however WS should be shelved until we have settled that down.

For GC to come in …one team needs to go, and common sense is that cut comes from Melb. Who, why, when …are all questions for men and women smarter than I. However lets say we are able to reduce a Melb club …the dynamics will change in Melb and I think a period of 10+ years is then required to see where the cards fall.

If Club A drops out and that adds 5000 members to the Roos, or it allows Melb to find another 200K in sponsorship….which makes them viable in the long term – then happy to see them stay.

At the end of the day I don’t care if there are more teams in Melb, what I would like to see is each team being financially viable and the game spread to a reasonable area. This means teams in the Gold Coast and Tassie …any other expansion I am against.

I could live with an 18 team comp for quite a while if it gave every club a chance to stand on their own 2 feet. I like the fact the AFL helps clubs out, but this can’t be on a forever basis. The costs of running clubs is only going to keep increasing and stadium deals aside (which I acknowledge) – some clubs I fear will struggle forever.

Keep as many teams in Melb that are financially viable. If the equalisation cash is going to be dolloped out on draw – then WC should be compensated as much as Melb.

Also if Melb and Doggies are under threat – Port are not immune (though I believe Port will fight through strongly).

In the long term if you can pay your way – you should stay.

 

[ryan2000]

Ideally, this is what i'd LOVE to see................

Some Collingwood player said something similar a few years back (nick maxwell perhaps) in an article in The Age. I thought it was a brilliant idea.



**AFL Season**

20 round comp of 20 teams.
(being the current 16, plus Gold Coast, West Sydney, Tasmania and a NT team)

Finals still to be best of the top 8.

Notes:-
North Melbourne & Footscray to have their own stadium deals out of the new Stadium at the Melbourne Showgrounds.

AAMI to be re-vamped.




** Championship Comp**

To be played throughout the AFL season. Thus a few 'Resting' weekends will be needed.

The Top 8 sides of the AFL play against the top 2 ranked sides from the VFL, SANFL, WAFL, and the QAFL / NT

Note:- Tasmania play in the VFL so that counts. NSW should also slot a team into the QAFL league.


2 divisions of 6 teams with the top 2 of each to go through to the play-off's.

EG:-

Top AFL Sides Top State Sides
Carlton Port Melbourne
Hawthorn Werribee
Geelong Glenelg
Collingwood Subiaco
Adelaide Southport
West Coast Palmerston


Note:-
Similar to the 'Carling Cup' i guess.
Sure, not all the AFL sides would play their best team, but imagine the likes of Port Melbourne going up against a side like Collingwood or Carlton??? Or Glenelg coming up against Adelaide????



** STATE OF ORIGIN **

To be held every 4 years. Kinda like our or World Cup.

Note:- Don't have to be playing in the AFL to make the side. But must be born or at least developed in footy in their representative state.

Victoria
South Australia
Western Australia
Tasmania
Northern Territory
Allies (made up of QLD, NSW & ACT)

Simple.............. All play each other once with the top 2 teams playing off in the Final.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

22 Rounds 24 Teams

12 teams in 2 conferences

Each team in each conference play each other twice

10 x Vic, 3 x SA, 3 x WA, 2 x Qld, 2 x NSW, 2 x Tas, 1 x ACT, 1 x NT

Victoria

Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Richmond
Hawthorn
Geelong
St. Kilda
Western Bulldogs
Melbourne
North Melbourne

South Australia

Adelaide
Port Adelaide
Southern

Western Australia

West Coast
Fremantle
Perth

Queensland

Brisbane
Gold Coast

New South Wales

Sydney
West Sydney

Tasmania

Hobart
Launceston

Australian Capital Territory

Canberra

Northern Territory

Territorians

Jesaulenko Conference

Carlton
Essendon
Hawthorn
St. Kilda
Melbourne
Sydney
West Sydney
Canberra
West Coast
Fremantle
Perth
Territorians

Barassi Conference

Collingwood
Richmond
Geelong
Western Bulldogs
North Melbourne
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Adelaide
Port Adelaide
Southern
Hobart
Launceston

Top 4 from each division meet in a final 8 Finals Series.

Each conference has split the Vic teams in half, with two of the "Big Four" in each, and city teams all grouped together to maximize local interest and gate receipts.

Somehow though the Victorian teams would need to reshuffle each year so traditional big clashes (Carlton v Collingwood etc) would be played every second year. Not sure how this would work as yet.

These are all just thoughts, though I'd like to hear what you think about it.

 

[lloydy_loinchop]

20 teams in the AFL(+GC, WS, Tas, + either: 1. 3rd WA side, 2.NT side, 3. WA side and merged Northern Territory Kangaroos side
20 rounds (the spare round is given to a rivalry or wanted game voted for by AFL fans at the beginning of the season)

AFL Reserves created

VFA/VFL restructured so that it returns to old status and includes a VFL Reserves and VFL U19s. Old clubs reoin e.g. Prahran, Oakleigh, Camberwell. U19s players can be promoted to seniors/VFLreserves to test them against grown bodies

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

A reduction in Victorian teams would have immediate benefits for the whole competition.

All the football media, especially TV shows, is so Victorian-centric, it damages the brand outside victoria.

I would say having the Swans in Sydney has damaged the brand far more than any Vic team.

Why would anyone in Sydney want to follow a franchise that dies every few years and continually needs to import Vic stars to have any success?

The Swans and their decades of failure, on and off field, have obviously been a turnoff.

Why is it after 30 years there, Sydney still has low membership numbers and is leaking money?

Oh that's right, its the fault of the evil little Vic clubs like North and Footscray.

Clearly.

We sneak to Sydney in the middle of the night and convince people not to become Swans members. FFS.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Harden up. It isn't the VFL anymore and as such the over representation of victoria in the AFL is a joke. If you like AFL you will simply support another team in the AFL and your old team in the VFL.

Until the AFL gets its roots out of Victoria it will never be Australia's game. So stop being selfish and take one for the team that is Australia, otherwise question marks over your love of the game and australia will appear.

I wouldn't. If North got cut, I wouldn't follow another team.

Already this year alone I've spent probably close to a grand on footy related stuff that would be gone from the 'footy economy' if North went.

And when I'm back in Melbourne next year, that will increase.

By your logic, it makes economic sense to cut my guaranteed $1000k in cash a year in the hope of attracting, at some point, a fan who you will have to PAY just to turn up.

Its lucky all you in WA have to do to turn a buck is dig up your backyard and sell it to the Chinese, because your grasp of what actual economics is like is pretty awful.

 

[grayham]

I would say having the Swans in Sydney has damaged the brand far more than any Vic team.

Why would anyone in Sydney want to follow a franchise that dies every few years and continually needs to import Vic stars to have any success?

The Swans and their decades of failure, on and off field, have obviously been a turnoff.

Why is it after 30 years there, Sydney still has low membership numbers and is leaking money?

Oh that's right, its the fault of the evil little Vic clubs like North and Footscray.

Clearly.

Sydney has no sympathy members. We'll see how many real members North have this week. If you cant pull more than 15,000 in a 4 million AFL mad city, its time to drop back to the VFL.

I wouldn't. If North got cut, I wouldn't follow another team.

Of course not, you'd be too busy whinging and releshing you ultra-victim status. A dream for all North fans. Imagine how self-righteous you could sound then!

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

LOL. Nice deflection. The fact is after three decades, the SWans ahve done NOTHING to significantly grow footy in Sydney.

When the AFL sends Vic stars there to prop you up, crowds rise and then they fall. The same old pattern, the same old crap.

BTW - on crowd numbers. Hawthorn only got 11k to a Port match 5 years ago.

Clearly they should have been cut then and there as there is no way they could ever have turned around their situation.

 

[grayham]

LOL. Nice deflection. The fact is after three decades, the SWans ahve done NOTHING to significantly grow footy in Sydney.

Nothing you reackon ?



Maybe we need a 2nd team to show us how its done.


North have certainly been the benchmark in new market development. They've left a swath of devoted fans all along the eastern seaboard.

 

[roylandroos]

Sydney has no sympathy members. We'll see how many real members North have this week. If you cant pull more than 15,000 in a 4 million AFL mad city, its time to drop back to the VFL.


Of course not, you'd be too busy whinging and releshing you ultra-victim status. A dream for all North fans. Imagine how self-righteous you could sound then!

What do you mean? One game against an interstate side and depending on the crowd we will be dropped or not dropped?

 

[grayham]

What do you mean? One game against an interstate side and depending on the crowd we will be dropped or not dropped?

Crowds at interstate games are the true test of support. If you get less than 14,000, then it really shows you have made no progress in the hearts and minds of melbournians for 30 years.

 

[roylandroos]

Crowds at interstate games are the true test of support. If you get less than 14,000, then it really shows you have made no progress in the hearts and minds of melbournians for 30 years.

sydneys crowds have not really increased in 20 years ( or the time you have been there) either.
That shows you have not gained much suporters in a city of 4.5 million either, considering you are a one city team.

 

[grayham]

sydneys crowds have not really increased in 20 years ( or the time you have been there) either.
That shows you have not gained much suporters in a city of 4.5 million either, considering you are a one city team.

SCG crowds have plateau'ed since about 1997 (11 years). They jumped substantially from the early 90's crowds.

ANZ crowds skyrocketed from 2002 through to 2007. They have come down a bit in the last two years as youd expect with the swans form in decline. Be interesting to see what the marque game v Pies gets this year.

All, in all, averaging 34,000 against interstate sides is nothing to be sneezed at.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Crowds at interstate games are the true test of support. If you get less than 14,000, then it really shows you have made no progress in the hearts and minds of melbournians for 30 years.

Indeed. You could only get 19k to a final against an interstate side.

We got 25k to ours. And that was on Mother's Day too.

Next.

 

[grayham]

Indeed. You could only get 19k to a final against an interstate side.

We got 25k to ours. And that was on Mother's Day too.

Next.

That one-off 19K crowd is like a crutch to you isnt it.

Luckily, for every 19K crowd, there are 3 70,000 crowds (against interstate teams).

 

[Danog]

Let's put all of the current teams' names into a hat and draw out 3. Those 3 must merge or die.

 

[Inzy]

Yep, the other thing which needs to be looked at is playing the grand final in Melbourne. If we want to get NSW on board, we should be alternating which venue we play the grand final at. The ANZ stadium easily rivals the MCG and would be a worthy Grand Final venue. The whole league is centred around Victoria being the so called heart of the game which is having a negative impact on the game in other areas.

Ideally once every team has a home stadium large enough we should be playing it at the "team with the most wins" ground.

Hahahaha

Now I'm convinced you're just taking the piss.

Kudos to you.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Yep, the other thing which needs to be looked at is playing the grand final in Melbourne. If we want to get NSW on board, we should be alternating which venue we play the grand final at. The ANZ stadium easily rivals the MCG and would be a worthy Grand Final venue. The whole league is centred around Victoria being the so called heart of the game which is having a negative impact on the game in other areas.

Ideally once every team has a home stadium large enough we should be playing it at the "team with the most wins" ground.

If ANZ Stadium have a 100,000 capacity by 2032, they should host it, and alternate with the MCG every other year.

The historical argument that the GF should always be played at the MCG is only convenient. Currently, 100 k capacity MCG beats 80k capacity ANZ Stadium.

 

[Rutherford Hayes]

Let's put all of the current teams' names into a hat and draw out 3. Those 3 must merge or die.

They pull out Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon. The next day, the AFL admin is overthrown by incensed supporters.

 

[walhawk]

Calls for 20+ teams are rediculous.

The reality is that 50% of footy fans (and players) come form Victoria.

It is what drives the AFL.

 

[Papa G]

Calls for 20+ teams are rediculous.

The reality is that 50% of footy fans (and players) come form Victoria.

It is what drives the AFL.

So by those numbers pissing off 2 Vic teams would make sense?

 

[Memories]

If ANZ Stadium have a 100,000 capacity by 2032, they should host it, and alternate with the MCG every other year.

The historical argument that the GF should always be played at the MCG is only convenient. Currently, 100 k capacity MCG beats 80k capacity ANZ Stadium.

The GF is played in Melbourne mostly because of the Victorian bias in the league. Whether you get 90K to the MCG or 42K to Subiaco in a grand final why does it matter when 95% of the people who watch it are watching it on TV? I mean really, does the stat "90,000 people watched the GF in melbourne" really differ much over "80,000 in Sydney" or "52000 in Adelaide" etc. Not to me, I know it matters seriously to the Victorians who just love the fact the AFL is really still the VFL, but yeah.

If the Dockers or Weagles ever went into the Grand Final as the "best placed team" we as supporters would want the game to be played in Perth, not in Melbourne. I think the current grand final tradition is just a pretty dress on the fact that Victoria currently runs the whole league and everyone else is just a visitor. Until they remove this Victorian Tumour from the AFL it will never be quite as successful as it could be.

Advantages to Victorian teams that urgently need to be addressed :-
1) Victorian teams travel significantly less over the course of the season.
2) Victorian teams do not have to travel if they get into the grand final.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Advantages to Victorian teams that urgently need to be addressed :-
1) Victorian teams travel significantly less over the course of the season.
2) Victorian teams do not have to travel if they get into the grand final.

Maybe Perth and Brisbane should relocate closer to Melbourne.

On the MCG - the biggest game should be played at the best stadium.

Playing it at Subi.

LOL.

 

[estibador]

On the MCG - the biggest game should be played at the best stadium.

So if we built a better stadium than the MCG you'd have no problem with playing it in Perth?

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

It would make for an interesting debate but seeing as its never going to happen, its a moot point.