F1 F1 2024 thread

[Jatz]

I think Perez' results in Austria (7th), Spain (8th) and Imola (8th) are representative of where he & the car are at right now. Alonso is probably the only driver outside of Mercedes/Ferrari/McLaren who would be capable of doing better.

However, his results in Monaco (DNF), Canada (DNF), and Britain (17th) are/were all well below expectations. It's hard not to see Ricciardo, Tsunoda, or a host of other F1 backmarker drivers doing better than these results.

That's the statement I disagree with. Tsunoda I would say could match him at the very least. Ricciardo I don't see doing any better, nor the other backmarkers with the exception of Hulkenberg. Think he'd do pretty well in it.

It's difficult to judge though - how much of it is the car vs the driving ability for the backmarkers? Often impossible to tell.

 

[happy_eagle]

8 points (now 9) is a lot when they aren't consistently scoring.

8 points between the top teams is nothing of course. Tsunoda has just under double the points Danny does.

It makes zero sense to me that Dan would replace Perez in the Red Bull seat. There's been nothing to suggest he'd do any better.

I kinda get the feeling Red Bull have put a line through Tsunoda for whatever reason and would not consider him in the main seat regardless of how well he drives the RB. Probably due to his temperament, and their departure from Honda.

Which leaves Daniel or Liam as the only realistic options (I don't think they would recruit mid season from outside their lineup, they could do that for 2025). Daniel was the sim driver last year, and tested well in the main car, which is very different to the RB he is currently driving. I don't think they would put Liam directly into the main car, that would be too likely to create another Albon/Gasly situation where a driver is prematurely promoted.

Interestingly though, Liam has a test in the main car this week at Silverstone (the same test that Daniel did last year that led to his drive)

 

[Vader]

That's the statement I disagree with. Tsunoda I would say could match him at the very least. Ricciardo I don't see doing any better, nor the other backmarkers with the exception of Hulkenberg. Think he'd do pretty well in it.

It's difficult to judge though - how much of it is the car vs the driving ability for the backmarkers? Often impossible to tell.

The RBR car is still massively better than the likes of VCARB, Haas, Alpine, Sauber, Williams and Aston Martin... yet he's qualified behind these cars in 3 of his last 6 races, failed to finish 2 of those races, and finished 17th in the other.

I just can't believe that Ricciardo, Tsunoda, Stroll, Albon, Gasly, Ocon, Hulkenberg, Alonso, or Bottas would have done as badly, given the same car, on the same circuits. I don't think they would have improved on his results at Spain, Imola & Austria, but they would surely have improved on his results at Monaco, Canada & Silverstone.

The real issue here is Perez' qualifying failures at those 3 tracks - Monaco, Canada, and Silverstone. When he qualifies badly, he either crashes out completely, or finishes at the rear of the field. He lacks the talent to overtake safely, even given a superior car (relative to the back marker teams). The question is why he's failing so badly in qualifying?

 

[Vader]

I'm not suggesting that these other drivers would have got the 2nd RBR onto the podium at any of the tracks, and probably wouldn't have improved on Perez' results at Imola, Spain & Austria.

I am, however, suggesting that any/all of them would have done better than Perez did at Monaco, Canada & Silverstone.

 

[Jatz]

I kinda get the feeling Red Bull have put a line through Tsunoda for whatever reason and would not consider him in the main seat regardless of how well he drives the RB. Probably due to his temperament, and their departure from Honda.

Which leaves Daniel or Liam as the only realistic options (I don't think they would recruit mid season from outside their lineup, they could do that for 2025). Daniel was the sim driver last year, and tested well in the main car, which is very different to the RB he is currently driving. I don't think they would put Liam directly into the main car, that would be too likely to create another Albon/Gasly situation where a driver is prematurely promoted.

Interestingly though, Liam has a test in the main car this week at Silverstone (the same test that Daniel did last year that led to his drive)

Agree with you on Tsunoda.

Doubt we see Perez move until the end of this year. Wouldn't completely surprise me if they went and asked Carlos to sit in the number 2 seat. He's a better option than any in their current set up.

Doing that would keep D Ric in the feeder team which would be interesting.

 

[Black_White]

There is no doubt in my mind that RIC will get the RB drive if it materialises.
After alll, it’s going backwards at the moment, which would be typical RIC timing…

 

[Neale4brownlow]

Reading clickbait articles that reference a clause in Perez contract that he needed to be within 100pts of Max by the end of the Belgium GP or they can tear up the contract.

with only 2x races left to that cut-off Perez is currently 137pts off Max.

If there's any shred of truth to it.. Perez is under the pump in the next fortnight. I don't think he needs to necessarily close that gap to below 100 in the next 2 races but he needs to get it on the podium and return to form.

 

[Vader]

Reading clickbait articles that reference a clause in Perez contract that he needed to be within 100pts of Max by the end of the Belgium GP or they can tear up the contract.

with only 2x races left to that cut-off Perez is currently 137pts off Max.

If there's any shred of truth to it.. Perez is under the pump in the next fortnight. I don't think he needs to necessarily close that gap to below 100 in the next 2 races but he needs to get it on the podium and return to form.

He's not getting on the podium again until/unless RBR introduce some serious car upgrades, restoring the car's former superiority. Perez isn't getting close while there's parity between RBR/McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari.

 

[happy_eagle]

He's not getting on the podium again until/unless RBR introduce some serious car upgrades, restoring the car's former superiority. Perez isn't getting close while there's parity between RBR/McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari.

Yeh its difficult creating those kind of performance clauses when there is a sudden shift in the competitiveness in the car compared to those around him.

However if he does not make Q3 in the next 2 races, and does not finish in the Top 8 of the next two races, you'd think that would be curtains.

 

[Vader]

Yeh its difficult creating those kind of performance clauses when there is a sudden shift in the competitiveness in the car compared to those around him.

However if he does not make Q3 in the next 2 races, and does not finish in the Top 8 of the next two races, you'd think that would be curtains.

I agree that those are reasonable benchmarks, which he needs to be achieving.

 

[gaskin]

Since Max won his first race in 2016, he and Lewis both have 61 GP wins.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Fallout from Silverstone?

 

[Barrybran]

View attachment 2043107

Fallout from Silverstone?

More the realisation that Ferrari's best chances are slow circuits like Monaco and Singapore. Everywhere else, they're fourth now.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

More the realisation that Ferrari's best chances are slow circuits like Monaco and Singapore. Everywhere else, they're fourth now

For now, but things can change quickly when the difference is a few tenths like how Mercedes have come back from the dead this year and McLaren last year. But the SF-24 EVO has been a monumental flop so I wouldn't be surprised if that punched the ticket for Cardille, perhaps he's not the guy to reverse the decline

 

[largebus]

You'd think if Merc continue this resurgence Hamilton will bring over a fair few people with him to Ferrari.

 

[Jatz]

You'd think if Merc continue this resurgence Hamilton will bring over a fair few people with him to Ferrari.

If he'd seen this improvement 12 months earlier, I doubt he'd be moving at all.

Don't know this is going to be a great move for him tbh.

 

[Big_Luch]

Are RB putting that much effort into this year's car? Seems like only one set of upgrades, meanwhile everyone else is doing it regularly.

 

[Vader]

Are RB putting that much effort into this year's car? Seems like only one set of upgrades, meanwhile everyone else is doing it regularly.

Sainz said that Ferrari are still running their car in Imola-spec, presumably indicating they haven't had any upgrades in several months. McLaren & Mercedes, on the other hand, have made huge inroads in that time.

Goes some way to explaining why Ferrari have been off the pace in the last few GP.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Sainz said that Ferrari are still running their car in Imola-spec, presumably indicating they haven't had any upgrades in several months. McLaren & Mercedes, on the other hand, have made huge inroads in that time.

Goes some way to explaining why Ferrari have been off the pace in the last few GP.

They've actually gone back to Imola spec after their Spain upgrades sent the car backwards, so even worse they've lost three months of development compared to everyone else.

 

[dazbroncos]

Are RB putting that much effort into this year's car? Seems like only one set of upgrades, meanwhile everyone else is doing it regularly.

RB had massive upgrades at RB Ring in Austria or Canada I think it was and they went no where with them - the wind tunnel and CFD expectations were far from met in reality sadly.

 

[Vader]

RB had massive upgrades at RB Ring in Austria or Canada I think it was and they went no where with them - the wind tunnel and CFD expectations were far from met in reality sadly.

Seemingly not the only team with this problem - the VCARB upgrades sent them backwards too.

 

[skam85]

Don't think Ricciardo deserves to replace Perez. Tsunuda has kicked his ass most of the season.

If Red Bull were smart, they should give the opportunity to Liam Lawson to be number 2 to Max.

Lawson beat Tsunuda last season in 4 out of 5 races. I'm confident that had Lawson been racing this season, he woud of already proven to be the 2nd best driver in the combined RBR/RB team. Just do a straight swap with Perez.

Won't be Lawson. They are hesitant to do that based on what happened when Gasly/Albon were paired with Max as inexperienced drivers.

 

[dazbroncos]

Seemingly not the only team with this problem - the VCARB upgrades sent them backwards too.

yeah sorry i wasnt clear... RB was meant as Racing Bulls...

not RBR as in Red Bull Racing.

My bad.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

Yeh its difficult creating those kind of performance clauses when there is a sudden shift in the competitiveness in the car compared to those around him.

However if he does not make Q3 in the next 2 races, and does not finish in the Top 8 of the next two races, you'd think that would be curtains.

I think everyone would be reasonable enough to adjust expectations based around this.

Verstappen isn't even a sure thing anymore which goes to show where they're at.

They really should turf Perez and put Sainz in the seat.
That failing, Ric is the next best bet.

Lots to unfold in the next couple of races. Silly season is heating up!

 

[DamoESP]