Coach Fages and the coaching group

[rye]

could it be a part of the negotiations in the broadcasting deal that the champion data stuff remains behind a paywall that effectively functions as a barrier on access to all but the networks who also hold the tv rights?

if a competitor started offering a programme that actually dove into in depth analysis on each team in the competition with access to the champion data information, you would imagine shows like on the couch would quickly lose their audience to something that is more compelling

 

[martinson]

I'm sceptical about the current commentary approach to games being a driver of ratings (positively or negatively). Sentiment that I see is more negative, but you have no real competition when all games are exclusive to a single commentary team. Next broadcast deal allowing fox to offer their own commentary for channel 7 games might be somewhat interesting.

Footy talk shows have a very small audience and most of it rusted on die hards who just want any content.

Which brings me back to Sanchez365's point that it would be great if the league would allow people to pay a reasonable amount to have access to the full stats package and behind the goals vision which would allow more niche analysis products to be done by people. I pay the Shinboner patreon a small monthly amount because I like his posts and he keeps some useful general information collated. For stats stuff there's a gambling interest too I guess but that's at the bottom of my priority list.

This sort of stuff doesn't compete with major broadcasters or the newspapers but there hasn't been any interest to open it up even though the AFL is a 49% shareholder of champion data and would have the influence to ask for that to occur. Its frustrating because I can go direct to NFL gamepass and look at endzone footage from every pre-season game that just happened if I want to, but all you can get here is whatever scraps are provided.

AFL should provide it for free.

The reality is there would still only be a limited number of people who were interested but it would add to the educative aspect of the game.

Re the ratings yes I'm a bit sceptical as well but the demands for specialist commentators to deliver their drivel in a certain way must come from somewhere and I'd suggest it's the producers and the particular commentators management group.

 

[p4p1]

Speaking of commentators, it was very clear to me Kingy feels like he has to be the smartest person in the room and tries to use stats, among other things in an effort to make sure every fan listening knows he is. But he does it without actually adding much to the commentary or making worthwhile comments. On the weekend for example, he cut off the other boys who were having a bit of a laugh over something to inject some completely useless stat. At the end of the day I want to be entertained and informed by the commentators, Kingy is neither entertaining me or informing me.
It just becomes word vomit by the end of it and I tune him out.
I remember early on listening to Duck commentating, and yes, I agree he shouldn't have a job in the media etc but there was a lot of times he called what was going to happen or what a coach was going to do to stop something from happening and low and behold, it happened. Not many that do that now.

 

[p4p1]

Buckley's not too bad actually. He sometimes makes attempts to go a bit deeper into motivation and tactics. I'm sort of warming to him a little without having paid much attention or listened to him on the radio.

Bucks has won me over since he started in the media. He actually seems like a fun bloke and is happy to take the piss but can also be serious and point out things that us fans may have missed.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Speaking of commentators, it was very clear to me Kingy feels like he has to be the smartest person in the room and tries to use stats, among other things in an effort to make sure every fan listening knows he is. But he does it without actually adding much to the commentary or making worthwhile comments. On the weekend for example, he cut off the other boys who were having a bit of a laugh over something to inject some completely useless stat. At the end of the day I want to be entertained and informed by the commentators, Kingy is neither entertaining me or informing me.
It just becomes word vomit by the end of it and I tune him out.
I remember early on listening to Duck commentating, and yes, I agree he shouldn't have a job in the media etc but there was a lot of times he called what was going to happen or what a coach was going to do to stop something from happening and low and behold, it happened. Not many that do that now.

Today's commentators who were past champions of the game also know just as much as Duck knew that something was happening/about to happen, but there are people behind the scenes dictating how the commentary flows and it's irrelevant to these behind the scenes people what the commentators think. Very sad and one of the many flaws in the modern game that puts $ first over everything else.

 

[martinson]

Speaking of commentators, it was very clear to me Kingy feels like he has to be the smartest person in the room and tries to use stats, among other things in an effort to make sure every fan listening knows he is. But he does it without actually adding much to the commentary or making worthwhile comments. On the weekend for example, he cut off the other boys who were having a bit of a laugh over something to inject some completely useless stat. At the end of the day I want to be entertained and informed by the commentators, Kingy is neither entertaining me or informing me.
It just becomes word vomit by the end of it and I tune him out.
I remember early on listening to Duck commentating, and yes, I agree he shouldn't have a job in the media etc but there was a lot of times he called what was going to happen or what a coach was going to do to stop something from happening and low and behold, it happened. Not many that do that now.

Kingy needs to do some meditation and take some valium before he fronts the camera.

Just overly anxious to give a forthright explanation of everything that more or less amounts to the same diatribe every time.

He doesn't seem overly bright tbh.

 

[p4p1]

Today's commentators who were past champions of the game also know just as much as Duck knew that something was happening/about to happen, but there are people behind the scenes dictating how the commentary flows and it's irrelevant to these behind the scenes people what the commentators think. Very sad and one of the many flaws in the modern game that puts $ first over everything else.

That is really sad to know that. By now we should all know that everyone in the media is acting out a part to some extent. But to hear actual good insights are just shutdown now is sad because I also don't think the current commentators are great characters in the vein of a Lou Richards or someone like that.

 

[Sanchez365]

I'm sceptical about the current commentary approach to games being a driver of ratings (positively or negatively). Sentiment that I see is more negative, but you have no real competition when all games are exclusive to a single commentary team. Next broadcast deal allowing fox to offer their own commentary for channel 7 games might be somewhat interesting.

Footy talk shows have a very small audience and most of it rusted on die hards who just want any content.

Which brings me back to Sanchez365's point that it would be great if the league would allow people to pay a reasonable amount to have access to the full stats package and behind the goals vision which would allow more niche analysis products to be done by people. I pay the Shinboner patreon a small monthly amount because I like his posts and he keeps some useful general information collated. For stats stuff there's a gambling interest too I guess but that's at the bottom of my priority list.

This sort of stuff doesn't compete with major broadcasters or the newspapers but there hasn't been any interest to open it up even though the AFL is a 49% shareholder of champion data and would have the influence to ask for that to occur. Its frustrating because I can go direct to NFL gamepass and look at endzone footage from every pre-season game that just happened if I want to, but all you can get here is whatever scraps are provided.

I was hoping someone would back me up and prove that other sports allow what I'm talking about. I don't follow NFL so didn't know what they offered.

The lack of competition across channels is definitely part of the problem. The NBA for example has multiple analysis shows so if one channel seems garbage you can flip over to the next for a different opinion. For us we can watch different shows on the same channel, but all controlled by the same production company. No other people have the means (to collect their own stats) or the access (to the teams) that fox footy has for its shows (as part of the broadcast deal with the AFL).

Afl is unfortunately controlled very heavily by the old boys mantra of the Murdoch media empire, both in its presentation and desire for monopoly.

The above is IMO and I don't want to derail this constructive conversation down the politics pathway lel.

 

[martinson]

I was hoping someone would back me up and prove that other sports allow what I'm talking about. I don't follow NFL so didn't know what they offered.

The lack of competition across channels is definitely part of the problem. The NBA for example has multiple analysis shows so if one channel seems garbage you can flip over to the next for a different opinion. For us we can watch different shows on the same channel, but all controlled by the same production company. No other people have the means (to collect their own stats) or the access (to the teams) that fox footy has for its shows (as part of the broadcast deal with the AFL).

Afl is unfortunately controlled very heavily by the old boys mantra of the Murdoch media empire, both in its presentation and desire for monopoly.

The above is IMO and I don't want to derail this constructive conversation down the politics pathway lel.

That's a simple explanation but the reality is usually more complex.

My perspective is that the deal has delivered a pot of gold to the competition and the AFL could do more to provide public access to all the information out there and it's up to them to convince Fox that it could be in their interests too.

It's just my feeling about it all that neither of them think there's sufficient demand out there rather than any monopolistic strategies.

Enhancing the coverage and providing public access to detailed game data and creating a bit of controversy having conflicting views and competition between the analytical opinions is a dream for any broadcaster. They've probably looked at the numbers and just can't be bothered with what that would entail.

 

[BuntonRules]

Silly me, I thought this was a thread about our coaching panel.

 

[M Malice]

I was hoping someone would back me up and prove that other sports allow what I'm talking about. I don't follow NFL so didn't know what they offered.

The lack of competition across channels is definitely part of the problem. The NBA for example has multiple analysis shows so if one channel seems garbage you can flip over to the next for a different opinion. For us we can watch different shows on the same channel, but all controlled by the same production company. No other people have the means (to collect their own stats) or the access (to the teams) that fox footy has for its shows (as part of the broadcast deal with the AFL).

Afl is unfortunately controlled very heavily by the old boys mantra of the Murdoch media empire, both in its presentation and desire for monopoly.

The above is IMO and I don't want to derail this constructive conversation down the politics pathway lel.

I watch a couple of EPL analysis shows and yes the standard and professionalism is a lot better than what is on offer in the AFL, albeit the EPL is a multi Billion dollar organisation and probably the most popular regular sporting league on the planet.

 

[martinson]

Silly me, I thought this was a thread about our coaching panel.

OK.

Go for the coaching panel then.

I just followed the conversation.

Any pearls of wisdom on the coaching panel would be greatly appreciated I'm sure.

Start off by letting me know who is our coaching panel.

I know there's Fages and Adcock. Someone called Stone I think.

Is Ben Hudson still around ? And the guy from Footscray who played a blinder in their premiership year. What does he do ?

They've probably coached all right this year so far. Apart from that I'm pretty much all ears on whatever else anyone wants to share.

 

[BuntonRules]

OK.

Go for the coaching panel then.

I just followed the conversation.

Any pearls of wisdom on the coaching panel would be greatly appreciated I'm sure.

Start off by letting me know who is our coaching panel.

I know there's Fages and Adcock. Someone called Stone I think.

Is Ben Hudson still around ? And the guy from Footscray who played a blinder in their premiership year. What does he do ?

They've probably coached all right this year so far. Apart from that I'm pretty much all ears on whatever else anyone wants to share.

Over react, or what? Do what you want. I just thought a gentle reminder that we were getting a - boringly to me - bit off topic.

 

[martinson]

Over react, or what? Do what you want. I just thought a gentle reminder that we were getting a - boringly to me - bit off topic.

I wasn't bored.

If I bored others I apologise.

 

[martinson]

Over react, or what? Do what you want. I just thought a gentle reminder that we were getting a - boringly to me - bit off topic.

But it wasn't actually tongue in cheek about the coaching panel.

I don't know jack about most of them as far as their coaching capacity goes. Nor in fact who all of them are. I think I read Hodgey had a role there at some point.

 

[dlanod]

Is Ben Hudson still around ?

I can answer this one - yes, I saw him out there before the weekend game.

 

[buttermuffs]

That's a simple explanation but the reality is usually more complex.

My perspective is that the deal has delivered a pot of gold to the competition and the AFL could do more to provide public access to all the information out there and it's up to them to convince Fox that it could be in their interests too.

It's just my feeling about it all that neither of them think there's sufficient demand out there rather than any monopolistic strategies.

Enhancing the coverage and providing public access to detailed game data and creating a bit of controversy having conflicting views and competition between the analytical opinions is a dream for any broadcaster. They've probably looked at the numbers and just can't be bothered with what that would entail.

One of the biggest hurdles is the complete gatekeeping of statistics from Champion Data. Unless you can fork out 150k for a subscription you can’t even begin to do some better and deeper statistical analysis into the game. I know there’s people inside Champion Data who like to use the database to do their own thing and that kind of stuff is gatekept from a wider community who would be interested in it.

 

[ZoBlitz]

One of the biggest hurdles is the complete gatekeeping of statistics from Champion Data. Unless you can fork out 150k for a subscription you can’t even begin to do some better and deeper statistical analysis into the game. I know there’s people inside Champion Data who like to use the database to do their own thing and that kind of stuff is gatekept from a wider community who would be interested in it.

I'm still disappointed at the discontinuation of Champion Data's AFL Prospectus which produced some very interesting analysis, beyond the pure stats side of things. But why bother paying people to work on that when you can just continue to fleece the AFL industry for simple access to the stats?

 

[Crimso]

“We” don’t have to worry about analysing any of the footy data, we have Kingy to investigate, analyse and keep us informed!

 

[Nunez]

“We” don’t have to worry about analysing any of the footy data, we have Kingy to investigate, analyse and keep us informed!

This finals series will be so competitive this year to the point I expect four teams will win and four teams will lose. Can't get more even than that!

 

[Viceregal]

I imagine that this thread will be an entertaining place to be if we make the GF with the current team makeup and they bring in Gunston, Rich etc and get creamed largely on the basis of their ability to run off the returned oldies and their lack of match fitness...

 

[Mighty Lions]

This finals series will be so competitive this year to the point I expect four teams will win and four teams will lose. Can't get more even than that!

Agree 100% ... All the Champion Data statistics they have cant tell you a more accurate summary...often statistics give the wrong or decieving impression of a team or player.

 

[Nunez]

Agree 100% ... All the Champion Data statistics they have cant tell you a more accurate summary...often statistics give the wrong or decieving impression of a team or player.

The Kingy special.

 

[Dalions]

This finals series will be so competitive this year to the point I expect four teams will win and four teams will lose. Can't get more even than that!

I am not sure how it happens but there will be 9 winners and 9 losers throughout this Finals Series.
But only 1 ultimate winner.

 

[Nunez]

I am not sure how it happens but there will be 9 winners and 9 losers throughout this Finals Series.
But only 1 ultimate winner.

And if you make the grand final, it's guaranteed one team will lose.