Coach Fages and the coaching group

[dizzysquizz]

Our entire game style is built around the strengths (contest ball winning) and weaknesses (pace, defensive running) of Neale and Lyons. We play a long kicking contested game down a wing. We have no width and generally pretty slowly relying on our defense to stand up when things are turned over.

It has been a pretty successful plan for the last couple of years but when it is not working there is no plan B. It also fails to take account of the change in personnel over the last couple of years. Everytime you hear from the recruiters it is about getting more run in our squad. The problem is that we have added running ability to our team but the coaching staff refuses to actually use it. Our wingers are on a hiding to nothing.

100% spot on there is NO plan B....or C or D.

The other issue and Fages has talked about it is keeping a settled line up. He has really held favour with players as to keep the team line up as similar as possible weeks in week out. Pretty much for the last 3 years. So unfortunately I can not see guys like Lester, birch , ah Chee even Berry getting dropped now.

 

[SizeMatters]

Fagan is a teacher. He guides and trusts his staff. He isn't great at strategy or taking risks with selection or strategy. I think we need new coaching staff for next year with a big loss looming we have to bring in someone who has tasted success and is experienced. Wouldn't be against a Sanderson, Carracella, Harvey if he doesn't get a gig at pies. Those types to head up our strategy or transition team. Noble leaving was a huge loss as he was the sounding board for many. Without him I feel we lack a bit of innovation and direction. We have to adapt. Our best is when we win contested footy and stoppages and keep ball moving forward. If we break even or lose that than generally we don't play well. We have no back up plans.

 

[T Rick]

Neale hurt himself in the warm up yesterday and had top get a jab to play. Season 2021 has been a nightmare for him. Hopefully 2022 will allow him to play his own game which will dominate opposition mids and help us compete more where we obviously are struggling somewhat.

Thanks for the update - Lachie has had a year from hell in terms of one injury after another. His body language after copping the head gash summed it up - he looked really frustrated and down on himself.

 

[MacMum]

I don't think T Berry has had a fair enough go yet either..

 

[Ceebee]

Neale hurt himself in the warm up yesterday and had top get a jab to play. Season 2021 has been a nightmare for him. Hopefully 2022 will allow him to play his own game which will dominate opposition mids and help us compete more where we obviously are struggling somewhat.

Got to feel for him , injuries have destroyed his season.

 

[MacMum]

Got to feel for him , injuries have destroyed his season.

I know we need him, but playing him over and over surely can't be helping with healing of those injuries. He needs a few weeks off before going into the finals at least...must be aggravating some of those injuries, his back in particular. Won't be helping at all.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I know we need him, but playing him over and over surely can't be helping with healing of those injuries. He needs a few weeks off before going into the finals at least...must be aggravating some of those injuries, his back in particular. Won't be helping at all.

They wouldn't be playing him if it was doing him any additional damage or hindering the healing of existing injuries. Have some trust in our medical staff as they have served us well over the last few years.

 

[fugitive]

What’s the talk about “succession plan”? LOL who wants to exit unfinished business? we need a premiership plan! If Fagan is right that our players are prone to hot & cold patches then the club should be investing in the right people to help Fages build resilience to last a whole season. I personally have no doubt he can take us all the way, he’s too good to walk away empty handed.

 

[davemc_lions]

i see Fagan more a manger then a tactical coach.. Nothing wrong with that man management is crucial.
Not sure what we lost with Noble going.
Although we need a plan B. If we find none.. Get a better tactical coach in next year move on someone
We kick to the same spot out of back half time after time.. Footage where Hawks players all went to wing as they knew we not kick inboard.
No use having Rich and Birchall playing if you kick it down the line.

Although we have a lot of players who run one way. Downhill skiers with great skills who you cannot drop.
Yes we came back against hawks and won against Suns. Although where is some throwing pieces around.
Have so many players playing average.. Although not too many knocking on the door loudly in VFL
Lots of teams have injuries.. Hippy was a big link forward only McCarthy and McStay put in. Why Linc was tagged.
Adams out left a big hole. Payne still to raw and disposal not great.
We covered for Rayner all year.. Neale just beaten up too much now

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Fagan is a teacher. He guides and trusts his staff. He isn't great at strategy or taking risks with selection or strategy. I think we need new coaching staff for next year with a big loss looming we have to bring in someone who has tasted success and is experienced. Wouldn't be against a Sanderson, Carracella, Harvey if he doesn't get a gig at pies. Those types to head up our strategy or transition team. Noble leaving was a huge loss as he was the sounding board for many. Without him I feel we lack a bit of innovation and direction. We have to adapt. Our best is when we win contested footy and stoppages and keep ball moving forward. If we break even or lose that than generally we don't play well. We have no back up plans.

Looking back from memory 2018 Fages gave the boys a free pass to take the game on and that included coming out of our backline.
We start off in 2019 like world beaters, only to get shut down a few times , so we reinvented to the contested teritory game plan.
Contest after contest.
We have done well to this point from where we were, only to fall short against sides that burn away with their uncontested running style.
now and at the time it felt like we should of persevered with the uncontested running style, .
Water under the bridge ,
but do we need to get back to playing more uncontested stuff.
Get their asses moving, that would be a start.
Gold Coast game was a prime example of what hapens when we start moving and running into spaces and defensive running and a prime example of what happens when we don't.

Although we need a plan B. If we find none.. Get a better tactical coach in next year move on someone
We kick to the same spot out of back half time after time.. Footage where Hawks players all went to wing as they knew we not kick inboard.
No use having Rich and Birchall playing if you kick down line.

With reference to your Plan B. and having players like Rich and Birchill
We have zero switch in our plan A game.
Example
A long long time ago.
It was a game last year I watched Rich kick out from the School end .
He was standing at the Stanley street side of goal, ready to kick down the line.
Heavily supported by our boys and oppo players.
He glanced to his right, had one of our players OPEN close to the boundary on Vulture st. side on the boundary and inside the 50 line by himself and a few of our players further up the spine or close to it , so a fifty meter kick was required.
Can't remember who it was , but if Rich had kicked it to him he was in the clear, and as I said the field up further was open, and a couple of players to link up to.
It would of been an easy kick for Rich on his left boot.
Take the switch rich , I said to myself, but no he turned back ,straight down the line to a pack and the play went on, we didn't score from that movement, can't remember if they rebounded back in.
Why?
A. the player on the boundary wasn't screaming for it or lead and B. Rich didn't give it.
Very obvious not part of our plan to pull those switch plays.
It was quite a safe option and definitly worth any risk as the odds of improving our field position whilst keeping possesion was sky high with Rich with the ball.
Long winded story I know , prime example of how we could take other options with our player set up with the majority of our players down the line and still be prepared and positioned for a switch.
But we don't , or rarely, long time since I have seen us do this type of thing unless we are chasing a deficit.
Long time period regardless of the score.
Time to open the field up Fages .
We are so close but lack versitility in our movement , just need to add subtle changes to be less predictable.

 

[Squizz89]

There was that article the other day about the coaches taking a pay cut this year which will give us more flexibility next year when there’s more money back in the cap. It will be interesting to see how we spend that.

Also, with all of the assistants off contract this year, maybe it is time to freshen up the coaching group?

 

[jackess]

It's amazing the amount of baseless assumptions posters are making in this thread.

Reminds me of the old "our forward coach is no good because he didn't play there" line

 

[dlanod]

now and at the time it felt like we should of persevered with the uncontested running style, .

It doesn't win finals. All the teams that have gone that approach have fallen short.

The closest was the Dogs and even that was more constant forcing it forward regardless of possession (or legality) combining with manic pressure off the ball, compared to the Giants' approach that year with uncontested runners past the contest ("Orange Tsunami").

 

[mpal6]

Just bring pressure from first bounce and we'll look like world beaters again. We have the players on the field to do it.

None of this meandering BS with 10m off the opposition player and then try to play serious once we are 5-6 goals down. Won't cut it.

None of our coaching group is telling players to "take it easy mate, she'll be right" for the first 2 quarters. That's on players unfortunately.

 

[jackess]

So we're playing the same gameplan we did the past 2 seasons and it's not working now; but this makes losing Noble an issue? The gameplan he apparently was instrumental in implementing

And it's not like Fagan didn't try to mix it up. Tried Cameron and Linc in the middle, tried Sharp and Prior on the wings, tried Madden and even played a smaller defence, has got more out of Bailey this season.

This is much more about personnel and not getting enough development (injuries having a big impact) out of a few who needed to take us to the next level ie. Rayner, Berry, Ah Chee, etc.

As good as they are at helping us implement plan A there are a few that hurt us implementing plan B; Lyons, Neale, McInerney, Robinson, McCarthy, Adams, etc.

Fresh blood in the coaching panel wouldn't be a bad thing but we need to move on from Robbo, Birchall and a couple of others and get some more long runners, well rounded mids and flexible players to give the coaches the tools to implement other gameplans

 

[jackess]

So we're playing the same gameplan we did the past 2 seasons and it's not working now; but this makes losing Noble an issue? The gameplan he apparently was instrumental in implementing

And it's not like Fagan didn't try to mix it up. Tried Cameron and Linc in the middle, tried Sharp and Prior on the wings, tried Madden and even played a smaller defence, has got more out of Bailey this season.

This is much more about personnel and not getting enough development (injuries having a big impact) out of a few who needed to take us to the next level ie. Rayner, Berry, Ah Chee, etc.

As good as they are at helping us implement plan A there are a few that hurt us implementing plan B; Lyons, Neale, McInerney, Robinson, McCarthy, Adams, etc.

Fresh blood in the coaching panel wouldn't be a bad thing but we need to move on from Robbo, Birchall and a couple of others and get some more long runners, well rounded mids and flexible players to give the coaches the tools to implement other gameplans

Mentioned Robbo but the coaches moving him onto Cunnington during the North game was a very good move

 

[Macca225]

That would suggest we haven't been going down the line enough... Maybe this is the reason teams have been getting easy I50 against us as we are turning it over in dangerous areas?

I would assume that any plan B would rely on winning the ball at the contest or putting pressure on the ball carrier to create turnovers it doesn't matter how many plans you have if you can't implement the basic pressure around the ball.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

It doesn't win finals. All the teams that have gone that approach have fallen short.

The closest was the Dogs and even that was more constant forcing it forward regardless of possession (or legality) combining with manic pressure off the ball, compared to the Giants' approach that year with uncontested runners past the contest ("Orange Tsunami").

Yeh totally agree .
there is a middle ground , you need to have both.
Where it seems we are too contested .

 

[martinson]

The spotlight inevitably shifts to coaching when you have a rough trot and over the current journey our results say our coaching has been first class.

I've been making the same comments since we became successful so this isn't in response to our current slump but I believe we don't respond quickly enough or usually at all on the days our gameplan is clearly not working and being exploited

Some of the players look stale ,maybe it's covid and other issues ,and maybe we need to throw them a curve ball occasionally and let them know there's no 100% certainty of your slot , different circumstances require a change of routine. There were several changes that could have been swung on Sunday and we just sat there like dummies copping it.

It's true that our gameplan works in finals if you have the cattle to implement it. We currently don't imo . partly due to injuries and form and partly our list.

Obviously footy isn't that simple , but if you're going to lose anyway.....

Overall we've got nothing to quibble about with our preparation for games and our overall results , but imo we have some versatile players on the park who we don't challenge enough when we need a lift.

We all know it's easy in the stands.

 

[Jivlain]

View attachment 1194775

That would suggest we haven't been going down the line enough... Maybe this is the reason teams have been getting easy I50 against us as we are turning it over in dangerous areas?

I would assume that any plan B would rely on winning the ball at the contest or putting pressure on the ball carrier to create turnovers it doesn't matter how many plans you have if you can't implement the basic pressure around the ball.

It's more reversion to type, to my mind. We have long been very inclined to use the boundary heavily when we're down on confidence or form. It never works out well.

 

[lionraven]

We have lost some of our composure through the midfield and have not been playing the way we usually do. Our clearances have often been shank lateral kicks lacking penetration. Our F50 pressure has been lacking significantly. So many easy transitions out for the opposition. We have been going for too many shallow entries which get easily turned over and countered. Daniher needs to learn to tackle. Payne and Andrews dont have that chemistry yet. Mostly its effort based. We have been down on contested ball so our territory game does not work.

 

[Macca225]

It's more reversion to type, to my mind. We have long been very inclined to use the boundary heavily when we're down on confidence or form. It never works out well.

Those stats would suggest we play better when we go down the line.
I would dare say our ball movement and defensive structure would look a hell of a lot better if we put pressure on the ball

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

View attachment 1194775

That would suggest we haven't been going down the line enough... Maybe this is the reason teams have been getting easy I50 against us as we are turning it over in dangerous areas?

I would assume that any plan B would rely on winning the ball at the contest or putting pressure on the ball carrier to create turnovers it doesn't matter how many plans you have if you can't implement the basic pressure around the ball.

Wow that's surprising, possibly some are short kicks to the corridor that we sometimes stuff up.
Looking at that last stat Points conceded from defensive half turnovers we are 3rd in Rd5-16 and 18th from Rd 17-20
Doesn't that suggest that the latter rounds we are doing better or does it mean 18th worst team.
Bit confusing.

 

[Mighty Lions]

It's more reversion to type, to my mind. We have long been very inclined to use the boundary heavily when we're down on confidence or form. It never works out well.

I tend to think all the banter from the above posters is true but at the end of the day it makes no difference to our game plan/strategy if you have 6 out of the 22 not contributing or putting in effort......and that is what is happening of recent times. I know and have seen for some times now, we get an even spread of contributers across the board in any given game and we win almost every time. Now coming to the crunch end of the season, the leadership group need to step up & have those players made accountable. Its got to come from the leaders inside the 22, not the coach.

 

[Macca225]

Wow that's surprising, possibly some are short kicks to the corridor that we sometimes stuff up.
Looking at that last stat Points conceded from defensive half turnovers we are 3rd in Rd5-16 and 18th from Rd 17-20
Doesn't that suggest that the latter rounds we are doing better or does it mean 18th worst team.
Bit confusing.

worst, conceding the most points from defensive half turnovers