Fairness of the Draw

[crazywildhorse]

Way back when the draw was released a wise contributor said something along the lines of "you don't know how hard the draw will be until the season starts". The draw from hell was tough, but not nearly as bad as it looked in November with Collingwood, WC and North having struggled in the first part of the season, and hence the beginning of the year seems to have been the right time to have faced them.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

I'm only bringing this up because I only really ever notice the tendencies in swans fixtures but I don't think it's fair that we play a team like west coast ( who are generally are far better team at home) only ever at "subiaco" without research and top of my head the last time we played them at home was back in 2010. Why would that fixture not get alternated every year??

Same could be said about us having to travel to Sydney to play you guys so frequently

Given that WCE rarely travel ovet to Sydney and Sydney rarely travel to Perth to play Freo I think this could very easily be alternated

I think Sydney have only played us 5 times in Perth since 2000.... as opposed to Freo playing Sydney in Sydney (H&A) 12 times over the same period

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That is simply not true IMO. Sydney had a clear advantage playing GWS and Gold Coast to start the year off. That's 2 wins locked away without needing to have your best 22 primed.

Other teams get that luxury later in the year. I'm more than happy that Collingwood get to play them in late July, just when we need to freshen up before August September

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Considering a very large proportion of all your other "away" games against Melbourne based clubs are at your home ground, I think that helps things a little..

Bullshit. Games in Victoria against Vic teams are neutral.

If you want to go to those ridiculous lengths you may as well call our games at Etihad as "away" games. Its just nonsense.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Sydney will always play GWS early because (a) they play them twice and (b) its needed for promotional purposes. The early Suns game was just one of those things. Its a total non issue.

 

[SM]

Put it this way, if you were offered the chance to play GWS and Gold Coast in round 1 and 2 next year, would you take it?

If we had the option of having a month long period of games against weak teams, I would rather have it in the middle of the year.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

It's more about the timing.
After a short pre-season the premiers were gifted the easiest possible start to the year.

This. Staggered the OP missed the whole point of the complaints. End thread.

 

[Hodge is God]

So basically the issue is because we would then have the same length of Pre-Season as the rest of the competition? If that is perceived as unfair, then it's interesting that AD and others have discussed the notion of setting a date for Pre-Season to start for all clubs, again taking away the unfair disadvantage the Premiers/Runners up have of starting their pre-season later.

I'm wondering the difference in the first 2 games between us and you. We have the same preperation time, after all.

Why do you, the premiers, deserve an extra two week break in getting GWS and the GC.

Hawthorn had Geelong first up. We had many players not ready or out. Captain included. Then a 6 day break to travel over to Perth to play West Coast.

See the difference?

Jut seemed unfair that. To me anway.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Why do you, the premiers, deserve an extra two week break in getting GWS and the GC..

Same reason Hawthorn deserves a midseason break in getting GWS and GC.

 

[Mister B]

To Round 9, Coll have played 7 games against sides in the Top 8 currently.

Return games against 1st, 3rd, 5th and North (who are very competitive).

Sydney have return games against 1st, St. Kilda (who have won 2 games), GWS (who haven't won a game) & 2nd.

To this point (onwards the start of 2012), Sydney have played GWS 3 times (Coll once) & GC 2 times (Coll once). You have effectively been given a 3 game start over a club you finished above.

No problems, if they have an issue with that they can drop their ANZAC day game and other early season blockbuster games against high drawing opposition. I'm sure they weren't complaining about playing those requested teams a few years back when Essendon, Richmond, Carlton etc weren't performing. I look forward to hearing the complaints about us opening every year against GWS and playing return games when they are tearing as all a new one in 5 years time.

 

[Pottering]

I'm only bringing this up because I only really ever notice the tendencies in swans fixtures but I don't think it's fair that we play a team like west coast ( who are generally are far better team at home) only ever at "subiaco" without research and top of my head the last time we played them at home was back in 2010. Why would that fixture not get alternated every year??

Every team has oddities like this. West Coast played at Kardinia Park every year for about the first 20 years of their existence and they play Collingwood at Subi once every blue moon.

The draw is horribly compromised by "blockbusters", traditional derbies/showdowns/Q clashes/, etc. It would never be admitted, but no doubt the broadcasters would have a big say on the fixtures.

The only way to have a fair draw is to rotate the teams you play over a 4 or 5 year cycle. This would mean you would play every other team about the same number of times over that period. That would mean only 1 Derby in Perth in some years and likewise with Showdowns and the various "blockbusters" between the big Melbourne teams. In any given year the sides you play twice would be totally random, they might be strong or weak. And no doubt a team might just get lucky and find that every year the teams it plays twice just always happen to be weak as teams generally wax and wane in their performance. But at least it would be fair because there would be no external intervention in the fixturing, it would just flow on year after year, a pure mathematical formula.

But there's no chance of this happening, despite the fact it would end the situation we have now where a soft/tough draw has been manufactured.

 

[Mister B]

Yeah right OP. Lets just forget that GC are actually semi competitive and that Melbourne are pathetic.

July 7 Sydney vs Melbourne
July 14 Sydney vs GWS

Soft run to start the year. Soft run yet again in the middle of the year.

So in that case our start to the year wasn't that easy then was it?

 

[SM]

I'm wondering the difference in the first 2 games between us and you. We have the same preperation time, after all.

Why do you, the premiers, deserve an extra two week break in getting GWS and the GC.

Hawthorn had Geelong first up. We had many players not ready or out. Captain included. Then a 6 day break to travel over to Perth to play West Coast.

See the difference?

Jut seemed unfair that. To me anway.

Most things seem unfair to people after they lose the GF.

EDIT: Sorry this isn't meant as a troll. I genuinely mean that, if a team loses the GF, people will naturally look at things their opposition receive with bitterness. In contrast, I don't care that Hawks get a mid-season break.

 

[Kwality]

Generally teams who play tough teams twice (once early, once late) will get a "break" mid season. It only stands to reason. Theres no conspiracy there. They have to play the crap sides sometime and if the double up games take up most of April May and August then it only stands to reason that the games against weaker sides will be in June and July.

Personally Id rather my side played GWS twice and Geelong once but thems the breaks.

Exactly, IF your lot are fair dinkum, you've got to beat all comers, everywhere - if they cant cut the mustard, whinge away.
Well put Timmy

 

[Superstar swan]

Every team has oddities like this. West Coast played at Kardinia Park every year for about the first 20 years of their existence and they play Collingwood at Subi once every blue moon.

The draw is horribly compromised by "blockbusters", traditional derbies/showdowns/Q clashes/, etc. It would never be admitted, but no doubt the broadcasters would have a big say on the fixtures.

The only way to have a fair draw is to rotate the teams you play over a 4 or 5 year cycle. This would mean you would play every other team about the same number of times over that period. That would mean only 1 Derby in Perth in some years and likewise with Showdowns and the various "blockbusters" between the big Melbourne teams. In any given year the sides you play twice would be totally random, they might be strong or weak. And no doubt a team might just get lucky and find that every year the teams it plays twice just always happen to be weak as teams generally wax and wane in their performance. But at least it would be fair because there would be no external intervention in the fixturing, it would just flow on year after year, a pure mathematical formula.

But there's no chance of this happening, despite the fact it would end the situation we have now where a soft/tough draw has been manufactured.

With the subi/scg thing it can be seen as a negative both ways. Yer we don't get to play u at the scg but on the flip if u had to to play us at the scg in a final next year and it is ur first trip to the scg in 4 years, it's a big disadvantage to wce due to lack of playing experience there and when u think of the unique ground dimensions there , it all adds up .

I don't like the way the entire fixture is set up as it is. Everyone knows that if you don't make finals u get an easier draw playing more games against other teams that didn't play finals either. In theory it works however some teams where these derby/rivalries are a part of the fixture every year , teams can be given an unfair advantage just because they are based within a close proximity to each other . Sydney are a beneficiary of this at the moment as we won the flag yet 2 games a year against gws which is virtually a guaranteed 8 points. The system is set up so in theory every team has a turn near the bottom or top even though it doesn't always work out that way. So either syd,gws,wce,freo,adel,bris,port,gc will get a guranteed 2 points against their "rival" when they are near the bottom of the ladder as most of these teams have done recently.

I may not have got what I wanted to say across clearly lol but in short what I am trying to say is that very team should play each other once and then finals. A lot more intense as well if we had to wait an entire year to exact revenge on the rivals that beat us

 

[Kwality]

The fairness of the draw is determines by just five things.

Those five things are the five teams you play twice.

When you play them is an irrelevance.

what draw is that?

Someone makes a decision who you play twice & it isnt drawn.

 

[TheTrademark]

From this thread it appears that most are arguing in terms that the genuine uncompetitive sides that bias the draw seem to Melbourne, GWS and GCS. Picking other teams to add to this list is difficult as most other teams are competitive in some way on their day (but not all days) and adding them to the argument makes it unnecessarily complex on any side of an argument.

So, the hawks have 2 less weeks to get ready for the season but only need to prepare their team for 7 rounds knowing that they have 4 weeks to rest and recover in the middle. They end their season with another 11 weeks of competitive matches.

The Swans have 2 weeks more to prepare for the season but need to prepare for 12 competitive rounds before a shorter 2 weeks of rest and then 7 rounds that are tough again.

I'm not sure we can tell whether 2 weeks at the beginning and then a longer streak is better, or 2 weeks less preparation but a shorter streak of competitive games. Even if we could, there will be a counter argument and as an utmost we can't control it!

Just different not worse/better!

 

[Pottering]

I may not have got what I wanted to say across clearly lol but in short what I am trying to say is that very team should play each other once and then finals. A lot more intense as well if we had to wait an entire year to exact revenge on the rivals that beat us

I do get what you're saying, but the AFL would be even more loathe to get a smaller TV rights deal by virtue of 45 less games than by making the current 22 rounds fair by way a rotating fixture that isn't manipulated.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

I'd rather play the top teams straight up, than playing them when they are in form.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

what draw is that?

Someone makes a decision who you play twice & it isnt drawn.

Shhhh!!!! Syndey fans still believe in fictitious things such as the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and equality in the AFL.

 

[MowShow]

Because the Swans are in such a superior position to the Cats at the moment, and beat the Cats after said easy start to the season.

Maybe the Cats are just better than the Swans this year?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

what draw is that?

Someone makes a decision who you play twice & it isnt drawn.

Quit with the semantics, youre boring everybody.

 

[Wurundjeri]

Swans won the GF so I suppose they were given a reward as a result, Hawks got the evener later in the Season?

Swans also got the Friday Prelim after finishing second!

 

[SM]

Swans also got the Friday Prelim after finishing second!

So if Hawks had an easier start to the season, it's fair, but if the Swans get any advantage, it's unfair? I see how this works now.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Why does everything have to be spelt out to Sydney fans, are they really that thick?

Really starting to get boring now. You and your cronies that keep embarrassing yourself at the mere mention of the Swans should seek counselling because there is some chance that the Swans or even your nemesis the Cats may sneak up on you come September, bend you over and leave you writhing in agony for another 12 Months. Prepare early and stock up on the Vaseline & Kleenex.