Fall and Fall of Big Bash

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big_e said:
The other factor is that having eight teams in the BBL, and having separate contracts, gives much more opportunities for players to either play at that level, or to earn more money.
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It also significantly reduces the quality of the competition. Players like Harris, Wakim and Doran last night should be nowhere near a T20 franchise.

I'm fine with a franchise system rather than state system for T20. I think that was needed to be able to split the contracts at state level. The players mentioned above are decent to good red ball players and if a state team had to contract for all three formats, potentially red ball cricketers get shafted in favour of a big bash slogger.

With other T20 comps taking overseas players away, there is never going to be enough talent for 8 teams, wind it back to 6 and the likes of Harris, Wakim and Doran are pushed out and we can see better quality cricket.
 

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big_e said:
Before the ECB introduced The Hundred, they did research which found that the younger you were, the less attachment you had to a county.

Young people identified with being from or living in Manchester, for instance, but couldn't care less about Lancashire for instance. This was particularly the case for migrants.

They also believed that it gave opportunity for people who move around the country to support their new local side rather than the one from the place they were born in.

I suspect it would be similar here.

The other factor is that having eight teams in the BBL, and having separate contracts, gives much more opportunities for players to either play at that level, or to earn more money.

Plus having city-based teams instead of states allows for derbies, which are traditionally the biggest attended matches in almost any sport - including the biggest attendance at a domestic cricket match in Australia.

It's never going back to state T20 teams, and I'm staggered that people still go on about it.
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I think Australia is a lot different to English county’s. State V State already had a strong and passionate history not only through cricket but mainly from the football codes through state of origin. If I remember correctly the Bushrangers were getting pretty big crowds in the old state v state T20 competition toward the end just when T20 was getting popular. They had the big V on the shirt which was a nice selling point and the whole state was behind and could relate to the team.
The move to a franchisee base competition I feel would have isolated a lot of the country fans too. yeah derbies are fun but so was interstate rivalries.
 
Hamingja said:
About as much interest as the Sydney Thunder? What difference does the away team really make in a franchise system.
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I agree, in a franchise competition, it matters little if you're playing the Renegades or a NZ team. I do think the competition would benefit from combining the two Melbourne and Sydney teams and bringing in two NZ teams (south island and north island) to remain an eight team competition.
 
giggler99 said:
I think Australia is a lot different to English county’s. State V State already had a strong and passionate history not only through cricket but mainly from the football codes through state of origin. If I remember correctly the Bushrangers were getting pretty big crowds in the old state v state T20 competition toward the end just when T20 was getting popular. They had the big V on the shirt which was a nice selling point and the whole state was behind and could relate to the team.
The move to a franchisee base competition I feel would have isolated a lot of the country fans too. yeah derbies are fun but so was interstate rivalries.
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There is no clear delineation between who is a Stars fan and who is a Renegades fan.

The mythical line up the middle doesn’t / hasn’t worked. Allegedly the West of the State is Renegades and the East Stars, but it’s never been pushed.

Playing games at Marvel is a waste -the pitches are usually ordinary and that impacts on the quality of the game
 
Starting off both teams with Eddie and JB as presidents was also pretty stupid.

Both very polarising, former TFS hosts, and came off as piggy backing on football rather than leveraging cricket’s own strengths. Yes, I know JB was a good cricketer but that is not what he is known for now.

Stars in particular started as a very unlikeable entity and haven’t improved much. It is like they have never been able to escape the Eddie/Warne/Pietersen shadow. It is like that hubris is part of the franchise’ DNA.
 
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The thing is Thunder and Renegades are there now.

Why would their respective supporter bases swing in behind the Sixers or Stars? They wouldn’t, and their absence would be a hit to the game for a while.

You would almost need a rebrand of the Sixers and Stars like what they did with the Melbourne Tigers.
 
giggler99 said:
I think Australia is a lot different to English county’s. State V State already had a strong and passionate history not only through cricket but mainly from the football codes through state of origin. If I remember correctly the Bushrangers were getting pretty big crowds in the old state v state T20 competition toward the end just when T20 was getting popular. They had the big V on the shirt which was a nice selling point and the whole state was behind and could relate to the team.
The move to a franchisee base competition I feel would have isolated a lot of the country fans too. yeah derbies are fun but so was interstate rivalries.
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State v State T20s were popular but state v state in other formats are attended by a few dozen pensioners and that's about it. Which suggests to me that it was T20 attracting people, not that it was state v state.

Also, remind me how state of origin Aussie rules is going? Players don't want it, broadcasters don't want it, and nobody under about 45 would even know what you're talking about.
 
big_e said:
State v State T20s were popular but state v state in other formats are attended by a few dozen pensioners and that's about it. Which suggests to me that it was T20 attracting people, not that it was state v state.

Also, remind me how state of origin Aussie rules is going? Players don't want it, broadcasters don't want it, and nobody under about 45 would even know what you're talking about.
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Agree with you in general, but think the latter example is wide of the mark. If there was a state of origin game featuring the best players in the country, I think it would be a hit with all ages. Players, clubs and the league killed it off, not the fans.
 
western royboy said:
There is no clear delineation between who is a Stars fan and who is a Renegades fan.

The mythical line up the middle doesn’t / hasn’t worked. Allegedly the West of the State is Renegades and the East Stars, but it’s never been pushed.

Playing games at Marvel is a waste -the pitches are usually ordinary and that impacts on the quality of the game
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I wonder if it would do better putting one of the teams in Geelong and playing out of there (assuming the pitch can be up to par). Avoids Docklands, gives it a place and there are a lot of sports crazy parochial people down that way.
 
The 747 said:
I wonder if it would do better putting one of the teams in Geelong and playing out of there (assuming the pitch can be up to par). Avoids Docklands, gives it a place and there are a lot of sports crazy parochial people down that way.
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This may be selfish as a Gades fan living in Geelong, but I'd suggest if it was too work that you'd need to move the team in Red

Gades have been hosting games in Geelong since the 17/18 season (thinking that's when they first went to the full h&a season). Looking at the average crowd sizes in seasons we've had at least 1 game in Geelong (20/21 no Geelong games), in only 2 seasons did Hobart ave higher crowds at Bellerive than Gades did in Geelong:
  • 2019/20 season, 10,080 vs 9,995
  • last year when the only game here was called off, which we still got 6,601


There is def Stars support in the region, but the Gades have put the effort in to make this a second home for them and if a team was to be relocated it should be the team that's been putting in the ground work here - the Gades have had family days prior to their matches here in recent years, they've got 2 holiday camps here over the next week or so, while the Stars don't have that presence here

Looking at both the Gades & Stars holiday programs, that mythical line splitting the state def seems to come into play with the locations each are running their camps

Keep the Stars at the MCG, relocate the Gades to Geelong with maybe a game in Ballarat or Bendigo if they have a suitable ground, and actually set KP up properly for a 5/6 weeks of cricket, rather than a one off match
 

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...remember the other night when the Melb derby, just on Ch7, outrated the Aus Open? Would've been washed out if it hadn't been at Marvel.

Even if it did dry up enough in time, you wouldn't get anywhere near 38k turning up on a day like that without the assurances provided by the roof.

But yeah let's put two new teams in a country with a smaller population than Victoria (and has nothing but shit venues and shit weather). Ha ha.
 

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