Opinion First Choice Ruck - Pitto vs TDK

[Prem17]

With Cripps attending so many ruck contests, it really was a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, it was terrible.

The coach' box was smashed last night.
Charlie may as well have been subbed if he wasn't played in defence. He added nothing to the game. (Yeah, yeah, 1 soccer goal).

Harry as the only target, Kennedy, Owies and the injured Weitering offering options?
Extra numbers around the clearances.

It was poor both on and off field.

 

[macky99]

Having Pittonet last night would have allowed us to keep Harry forward all night.
It also would have meant that Cripps could have concentrated on his role rather than taking so many ruck contests.
I don't mind him taking the odd throw in or whatever but last night the clearance battle was a disaster.
Even if Cripps won a contest, who was gonna win the clearance? Not Walsh and George was left out.

How is this any different to the past six weeks?
Pretty sure it is discussed to align to the two ruck debate, pretty sure aside from Cripps we did not have any solid mid field contributors

 

[Stamos]

TDK hopefully learns from the way Briggs played and adjust accordingly.

If the ruck contests were umpired properly, it would have had a massive impact on how the game was played.
Briggs constantly infringed.

 

[macky99]

If the ruck contests were umpired properly, it would have had a massive impact on how the game was played.
Briggs constantly infringed.

Very true but also feel TDK needed to be a bit smarter in his positioning, as we cannot control the umpiring as teams are always going to try different things and Briggs took away his jump, he needed to adjust his angles and be smarter

 

[T2B_]

Briggs is a beast so I'm not too concerned about TDK himself and he wasn't 100% anyway, but yes perhaps it is match up dependent. Was thinking often last night that Pitto would have been handy against Briggs' style.

 

[BlueJet]

TDK has taken his game to another level over the last month so I'm not going to sink the boot in after one quieter performance.
They both offer different things so feel it's a horses for courses type scenario.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Regardless of the Pitto factor TDK was still one of our best players. His issue is he allows his opponent to play at a high level too, Pitto sort of drags them down to his level and makes sure damage is limited

 

[BlueJet]

TDK is almost purely attacking & looks to get involved in attacking chains exiting the stoppage.
Pittonet plays a more defensive role at the stoppage & helps prevent clean movement the other way.
There's value to both, depending on how you set your midfield up.

 

[Prem17]

How is this any different to the past six weeks?
Pretty sure it is discussed to align to the two ruck debate, pretty sure aside from Cripps we did not have any solid mid field contributors

Hello? Read my post again.
All you did in your quote was reiterate my point.

 

[JustOneTime]

Another great test for TDK coming up. Assuming he is not sore and misses.

 

[BlueJet]

Get him jumping into English and he should get right on top.

 

[My Hat]

It's true that TDK had his colours lowered on the weekend. But if we want TDK to learn how to handle different opposition ruck styles then we need to let him play against them, at least some of the time.

And the midfield also needs to be accountable for how they go about it when the opposition ruck is on top.

 

[Arr0w]

It's true that TDK had his colours lowered on the weekend. But if we want TDK to learn how to handle different opposition ruck styles then we need to let him play against them, at least some of the time.

And the midfield also needs to be accountable for how they go about it when the opposition ruck is on top.

Always the sum of all parts, everyone plays a role, whether you are winning or losing taps, first hands or more effective/damaging clearances

I'd still like to see Pitto and TDK in the side with the current level of talent, compared to when we were missing players earlier

Everyone thought we would have more run with 1 ruckman, but we were hurt on the outside

 

[JustOneTime]

Not sure how the logic works to improve run on the outside by dropping a Fantasia type and bringing in Pitto.

That type of change decreases overall run on the outside.

I would understand the argument of more clearance/tapout wins as an argument for including Pitto.

 

[Accidental genius]

I think the best way forward is for TDK to put on a few more kilos of muscle mass to go toe to toe with the gorilla ruckman

Pitto plays when tdk is injured or needs a rest.

I don’t think playing both is going to work against sides with pace.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I think the best way forward is for TDK to put on a few more kilos of muscle mass to go toe to toe with the gorilla ruckman

Pitto plays when tdk is injured or needs a rest.

I don’t think playing both is going to work against sides with pace.

Seemed to work o.k. against the Swans in a big final last year. Aren't they the definition of a quick side?

 

[Accidental genius]

Seemed to work o.k. against the Swans in a big final last year. Aren't they the definition of a quick side?

It’s worked sometimes. But I really like the look of our game style leading up to the gws game. With an improved tdk performance (say 20% improvement) we probably would have beaten gws.

Many other factors to consider as well but our game style looks a lot quicker and tdk provides enormous benefit to our mids and overall team in general play.

I noticed Pitto against tiggies showed a fair improvement to his game as well. He wasn’t just rucking he was getting involved in general play. ideally he keeps improving in this area.

At some point it will be interesting to try it out again with both playing but I think overall we need ways to inject more speed into our game. Whether bringing in zippy players or moving the ball more efficiently.

 

[Arr0w]

Our win against the Tigers, our loss against GWS, had nothing to do with which and or the amount of rucks we played

 

[JustOneTime]

Going to be interesting. I love the 1 ruck set up due to other benefits it gives us elsewhere.

But we do have to line up the fact that TDK's great 4 week run was vs non rated rucks or sore rucks. Briggs was a set back but hopefully it was because TDK was sore. There are games where TDK doesnt do so great that it plays a massive part in our losses. I think back to a GC game last year where Witts was fit and firing and destroyed us and TDK.

If TDK is fit and not sore Vossy needs to find out what happens vs English as a sole ruck. Can TDK respond.

The Pitto argument gains legs if TDK cant cope week in week out. Not just that; we need to know TDK's floor performance because the consequences seem high.

Right now, Pitto's one game was really quite poor so its debatable he has earnt a 2 ruck call up. And that is the problem for us...carrying two players who cant do the job required meaning we lose out on outside run/speed.

I'm backing TDK to cope and learn. Learn to cope with the opponent ruckman jumping into him.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Horses for courses. Maybe two rucks for some opposition, maybe Pitto for some, and TDK for the rest.

 

[reubsblues]

We only need to play one ruckman and it's clearly TDK sorry but Pittonet only plays if TDK is injured

 

[Jimmae]

If the ruck contests were umpired properly, it would have had a massive impact on how the game was played.
Briggs constantly infringed.

That and he got his ankle stomped on in the first quarter.

I think the best way forward is for TDK to put on a few more kilos of muscle mass to go toe to toe with the gorilla ruckman

Pitto plays when tdk is injured or needs a rest.

I don’t think playing both is going to work against sides with pace.

TDK going gorilla is what was happening the previous 2 years, and what dragged him down. McKay also had the same issue.

Let them be athletic please.

 

[Arr0w]

That and he got his ankle stomped on in the first quarter.

TDK going gorilla is what was happening the previous 2 years, and what dragged him down. McKay also had the same issue.

Let them be athletic please.

Unfortunately it's not track and field, where you can purely focus on power, speed, endurance without contact, so there needs to be a balance between optimum size and athleticism

 

[Coona Blues]

That and he got his ankle stomped on in the first quarter.

TDK going gorilla is what was happening the previous 2 years, and what dragged him down. McKay also had the same issue.

Let them be athletic please.

Tend to agree. TDK is not too far from optimal size for his type of ruck. A couple of extra Kgs would be ideal, but not trying to make him a bull and blunting his athleticism.

Yes, Harry’s best is still ahead, and his mobility is a key.

Tom is in his first year of fronting up as “sole” ruck and will need some managing. He has some “seasoning” still to add to his make up. He is now our no. 1, Pitto only plays if he is hampered or needs a rest. The change up with Harry, Crippa and Chugga doing a few ruck contests is more positive than negative while TDK is healthy enough to play big minutes.

The club absolutely needs to support Tom and question the AFL/umpires on the blocking interpretation as it is being poorly adjudicated at present.

 

[Jimmae]

Tend to agree. TDK is not too far from optimal size for his type of ruck. A couple of extra Kgs would be ideal, but not trying to make him a bull and blunting his athleticism.

Yes, Harry’s best is still ahead, and his mobility is a key.

Tom is in his first year of fronting up as “sole” ruck and will need some managing. He has some “seasoning” still to add to his make up. He is now our no. 1, Pitto only plays if he is hampered or needs a rest. The change up with Harry, Crippa and Chugga doing a few ruck contests is more positive than negative while TDK is healthy enough to play big minutes.

The club absolutely needs to support Tom and question the AFL/umpires on the blocking interpretation as it is being poorly adjudicated at present.

I can definitely agree on him adding more kg of muscle, but not necessarily getting heavier. You don't want a NicNat situation.