Opinion First Choice Ruck - Pitto vs TDK

[Jimmae]

TDK isn't just winning the ball and getting clearances. He's having massive influence on the game. His possessions hurt. AFL sides hate seeing the ball come out the front of stoppages like that, he does it a lot. Grabs it out of the ruck for clean clearances. Takes marks around the ground. Kicks goals. Has leg speed and gets involved in general play and tackling. Lets see if he can keep things going. I haven't seen a ruck this good at our club since Matthew Allen's 2000 season.

It's absurd that I even have to point this out

 

[gbatman]

It's absurd that I even have to point this out

Everyone looks fantastic on their highlights reel. Justin Madden took running bounces and kicked goals when he did it. We know this wasn't a regular thing, but it will be on his highlights. DeKoning is becoming a player who is a level well above. Same qualities but better.

 

[Jimmae]

The only thing not on the regular for Kreuzer was consistent overhead marking... his impact for us was enormous from day dot.

TDK has an opportunity to hit a bigger ceiling now thanks to Kreuzer's help, but he was never this good from the start.

Biggest thing that stopped Kreuzer was what Ratten and the doctors did to his foot.

 

[JustOneTime]

The only thing not on the regular for Kreuzer was consistent overhead marking... his impact for us was enormous from day dot.

TDK has an opportunity to hit a bigger ceiling now thanks to Kreuzer's help, but he was never this good from the start.

Biggest thing that stopped Kreuzer was what Ratten and the doctors did to his foot.

I think if we are honest the first impact for a ruckman is hitouts. Then it goes to other abilities like supporting clearances, relieving marks, then potentially goals scoring etc.

Kreuzer averaged 21 hitouts a game over his career. Harsh as it sounds but a big weakness in his career.

For mine, Kreuzer's biggest attribute was his heart and effort when playing for us.

 

[Jimmae]

I think if we are honest the first impact for a ruckman is hitouts. Then it goes to other abilities like supporting clearances, relieving marks, then potentially goals scoring etc.

Kreuzer averaged 21 hitouts a game over his career. Harsh as it sounds but a big weakness in his career.

For mine, Kreuzer's biggest attribute was his heart and effort when playing for us.

From his first year (2008), until end of 2016, Kreuzer was splitting time and opportunity with Hampson, Warnock, Cam Wood, and Phillips. He sacrificed much the way TDK had to, but his game suffered less.

After that he went:

31.7
23 (shortened by injuries in R4, 14 & 17)
30.9
ACL in first round

With Levi as his dedicated reliever, and his clearance averages jumped up from trending at 3 to trending at 5.

Coach after coach kept trying to use him as a forward rotation, or kept trying to find a ruck that they felt had the reach to give the tap out they wanted instead of focusing on delivering effective clearances as the priority, rather than an arbitrary subset of how they wanted their effective clearance to look based on 'how the game should be played'.

Extremely ironic that you choose to view history this way given TDK's playstyle and the selection drama around him. It's literally Kreuzer teaching him how to play like he did.

 

[JustOneTime]

Extremely ironic that you choose to view history this way given TDK's playstyle and the selection drama around him. It's literally Kreuzer teaching him how to play like he did.

It is a little ironic and I did laugh

There are similarities in the hitouts piece and relying on secondary skillsets. With TDK being only 24 I do feel he will reach greater heights. Might simply be luck with injuries that causes it.

Can i knock Kreuzer but still love the guy. I mean, he gave everything every time he stepped out. Only JSoS since.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I think that I can hear a lot of gearboxes being moved into reverse.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Must have buggered TDK's mojo by resting him last week.

 

[AvantGardener]

Gee whiz he rolled his ankle late in the 1st qtr and it really changed the ruck battle. Give it a break

 

[kreuze_missile]

I’m still 100% in the can’t play both camp.

But TDK got eaten by another big bruiser style ruckman.

Maybe the answer on who plays is matchup dependant.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I’m still 100% in the can’t play both camp.

But TDK got eaten by another big bruiser style ruckman.

Maybe the answer on who plays is matchup dependant.

TDK should be a good match for English who is fairly soft in the contest but excellent at spreading from the contest.

Up against Briggs, Nankervis etc I think Pitto's ground and pound style is a safer option

 

[Thrawn]

It was a mistake putting TDK solo against a ruck who can physically dominate him.

 

[M_I_G]

Still support TDK as #1 ruck

 

[Arr0w]

Pitto ruck, TDK forward/ruck

 

[kreuze_missile]

TDK should be a good match for English who is fairly soft in the contest but excellent at spreading from the contest.

Up against Briggs, Nankervis etc I think Pitto's ground and pound style is a safer option

Who plays in the granny vs Sydney?

 

[gab213]

Who plays in the granny vs Sydney?

Both

 

[Accidental genius]

Seems we have a bit of a problem...

TDK athletic and leaps and can play like another midfielder but cant go against the grunt rucks like nank and briggs etc

Pitto can match it against the naks/briggs etc but lacks in general play - although against tiggies he was much better

Not sure what the answer is but playing both of them hasnt really worked too well on a consistent basis in the past either

 

[gab213]

Seems we have a bit of a problem...

TDK athletic and leaps and can play like another midfielder but cant go against the grunt rucks like nank and briggs etc

Pitto can match it against the naks/briggs etc but lacks in general play - although against tiggies he was much better

Not sure what the answer is but playing both of them hasnt really worked too well on a consistent basis in the past either

I'd like to see the figures on how many games we win when they play together, I don't think that it would be much different to when one or the other plays.

I do know this, when it's only one of them, the moment they leave the field due to either a niggle or needing a rest the opposition starts scoring freely.

I don't want to see Kennedy and Cripps in the ruck, not too keen on having Mckay there either.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I'd like to see the figures on how many games we win when they play together, I don't think that it would be much different to when one or the other plays.

I do know this, when it's only one of them, the moment they leave the field due to either a niggle or needing a rest the opposition starts scoring freely.

I don't want to see Kennedy and Cripps in the ruck, not too keen on having Mckay there either.

nah, even when tdk was in today we were dominated

he wasnt 100% and was getting physically dominated

harry played ok in the ruck and still kicked 5.

 

[gab213]

nah, even when tdk was in today we were dominated

he wasnt 100% and was getting physically dominated

harry played ok in the ruck and still kicked 5.

The finals are a whole different ball game, I expect to see the two of them playing. What happens if TDK goes down in the first quarter and doesn't re-appear?

There's two players who we can't afford to see go down in big games...Weitering and whoever the ruckman is, we can't effectively cover them.

Anyway, we'll see what happens eventually I guess.

 

[Accidental genius]

I'd like to see the figures on how many games we win when they play together, I don't think that it would be much different to when one or the other plays.

I do know this, when it's only one of them, the moment they leave the field due to either a niggle or needing a rest the opposition starts scoring freely.

I don't want to see Kennedy and Cripps in the ruck, not too keen on having Mckay there either.

I think we need to find a formula that works well consistently and one that is going to match it against the top sides.

If playing both is the answer, i think we need some changes elsewehere. More mobile/power mids for a start and when TDK H and charlie all play up front they need to learn to play better - not try and out compete one another.

 

[macky99]

Who plays in the granny vs Sydney?

Not sure we can just assume we will get there.
That 2nd/3rd quarter was as bad as we have seen for a long time, we were completely outplayed, waiting for this ruck debate to recommence.

TDK hopefully learns from the way Briggs played and adjust accordingly.
Walsh & Cerra were very ordinary, Cripps carried us again, not sure one player Pitto makes a difference to how we played in that period, more about the collective team effort/values.

 

[sweetchoif]

Seems we have a bit of a problem...

TDK athletic and leaps and can play like another midfielder but cant go against the grunt rucks like nank and briggs etc

Pitto can match it against the naks/briggs etc but lacks in general play - although against tiggies he was much better

Not sure what the answer is but playing both of them hasnt really worked too well on a consistent basis in the past either

Sounds like we need to trade them both

 

[Prem17]

Having Pittonet last night would have allowed us to keep Harry forward all night.
It also would have meant that Cripps could have concentrated on his role rather than taking so many ruck contests.
I don't mind him taking the odd throw in or whatever but last night the clearance battle was a disaster.
Even if Cripps won a contest, who was gonna win the clearance? Not Walsh and George was left out.

 

[gab213]

Having Pittonet last night would have allowed us to keep Harry forward all night.
It also would have meant that Cripps could have concentrated on his role rather than taking so many ruck contests.
I don't mind him taking the odd throw in or whatever but last night the clearance battle was a disaster.
Even if Cripps won a contest, who was gonna win the clearance? Not Walsh and George was left out.

With Cripps attending so many ruck contests, it really was a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, it was terrible.