first test of the aussie summer 23/24

[thejester]

While some of the language he’s used has been a bit strong, I can really only find 3-4 things (from only a quick bit of research admittedly) that he’s brought up: the Langer sacking, his tactical nous once in India and once in England, and once more recently.

Considering he’s a cross-format captain, the criticism Cummins himself copped during those times in forums like this one and other media areas I don’t think that necessarily means it’s personal with Mitchell Johnson.

If you’re an Australian cricket commentator paid to write opinion pieces you’re going to be writing about Pat Cummins in all those instances and while I like Cummins and he is clearly a great guy, a great cricketer and a good leader, he wasn’t ‘born’ a decent captain. In fact at times he’s been a poor one and has warranted criticism.

If the author of those columns was Robert Craddock or Warwick Franks or Gideon Haigh or someone I don’t think it would appear they had a personal problem with Cummins I think it would appear like honest appraisal.

Think it would be more accurate to say he’s paid to put his name to a column someone else writes. Be interested to know how much input he actually has.

 

[PhatBoy]

Think it would be more accurate to say he’s paid to put his name to a column someone else writes. Be interested to know how much input he actually has.

Well yes that’s a very good point too. A ghost writer would have to have written a fairly huge percentage of it

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Agree,Boland and Morris to miss out.Toss of the coin between Green and Marsh and will go Marsh misses out but tough call.

Green is the future, Marsh has been tried and tried again at Test level. Green for me.

 

[big_e]

While some of the language he’s used has been a bit strong, I can really only find 3-4 things (from only a quick bit of research admittedly) that he’s brought up: the Langer sacking, his tactical nous once in India and once in England, and once more recently.

Considering he’s a cross-format captain, the criticism Cummins himself copped during those times in forums like this one and other media areas I don’t think that necessarily means it’s personal with Mitchell Johnson.

If you’re an Australian cricket commentator paid to write opinion pieces you’re going to be writing about Pat Cummins in all those instances and while I like Cummins and he is clearly a great guy, a great cricketer and a good leader, he wasn’t ‘born’ a decent captain. In fact at times he’s been a poor one and has warranted criticism.

If the author of those columns was Robert Craddock or Warwick Franks or Gideon Haigh or someone I don’t think it would appear they had a personal problem with Cummins I think it would appear like honest appraisal.

Nah, I read his column every week, in the same way one slows down to look at a car crash.

Hates day-night tests because they are not traditional. When in fact test cricket has constantly changed over the decades, which is one of the reasons it still survives.

Thinks bowlers shouldn't captain because they get tired. Despite there being several extremely successful bowling captains.

Cricket shouldn't be in the Olympics because nobody in cricket would care about it. This coming after its inclusion was almost universally praised.

Is disparaging of T20s as a means of growing the game, despite the number of teams playing T20Is continuing to grow.

Honestly I think he just wishes cricket should be just as it was when he was growing up.

If there was some nuance or even a decent attempt at a reasoned argument on most of those things I would give him some credit, but there just isn't.

 

[Retzlaff]

I can't wait for his book though.

Do you like pictures?

 

[big_e]

Well yes that’s a very good point too. A ghost writer would have to have written a fairly huge percentage of it

Pretty sure it's Bharat Sundarasan.

 

[thejester]

Well yes that’s a very good point too. A ghost writer would have to have written a fairly huge percentage of it

Think particularly because the ideas he’s expressed are pretty commonly held - it’s the venom in the writing that puts the columns on another level.

 

[Gough]

Well yes that’s a very good point too. A ghost writer would have to have written a fairly huge percentage of it

Ben Cousin's autobiography was only good because Malcolm Knox wrote it.

 

[Scorpus]

I swear people just get bored of the team and, like little kids bored of a toy, just want a new one to play with.

Test cricket is the pinnacle of the game. We're on top of the world.

Our test team isn't a friggen development team, you play the best 11 you have every single game.

We should be playing the best team that allows us to win now and in the future. Not just the team to win now.

Playing players that might help us to win in the future, against teams we will or should beat now regardless, is the best way to go about it

Win now and win later

 

[FreoRicci]

There’s most definitely a biography coming from Dave Warner.
If his wife couldn’t hold back in hers, best believe Dave is going to go all in. Probably has a publishers’ deal in place with his retirement

 

[FreoRicci]

Warner fails in the first test he's out.

If Warner has somehow lasted for 3 years of average/mid tests, he’s not going to be touched all series.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nah, I read his column every week, in the same way one slows down to look at a car crash.

Hates day-night tests because they are not traditional. When in fact test cricket has constantly changed over the decades, which is one of the reasons it still survives.

Thinks bowlers shouldn't captain because they get tired. Despite there being several extremely successful bowling captains.

Cricket shouldn't be in the Olympics because nobody in cricket would care about it. This coming after its inclusion was almost universally praised.

Is disparaging of T20s as a means of growing the game, despite the number of teams playing T20Is continuing to grow.

Honestly I think he just wishes cricket should be just as it was when he was growing up.

If there was some nuance or even a decent attempt at a reasoned argument on most of those things I would give him some credit, but there just isn't.

That’s fair enough

 

[ioppolo]

Warner has three tests left in his career at most. He won't be dropped. It's just for these three tests anyway. So be it.

 

[BStaff17]

He’s paid to write a column. Will be hard for him to do that if he doesn’t say anything.
He took over 300 test wickets and has a test century. You don’t do that if you are soft as butter.
His average away was 31 which, while unremarkable is perfectly acceptable.
He averaged 29 in the UAE, 25 in the West Indies, 25 in SA across 8 tests, 23 in NZ, and his two Ashes series yielded the ‘terrible’ return of 20 wickets at 32 and 15 wickets at 34.

If Nathan Lyon returned that everyone would say he broke even.

His contract interpretation of Cummins’ captaincy doesn’t retrospectively become incorrect because of improvements in that captaincy. A column written in January 1989 saying ‘Steve Waugh is not a test standard batsman’ doesn’t become incorrect because he retired in 2004 averaging 50. When it was written he averaged 30.

Cummins’ captaincy has improved light years since last year. Johnson is paid to write a column. Whatever happened in his career doesn’t make what he’s said incorrect.

I’d say your appraisal is about as scattergun as his bowling was from time to time.

At times he was soft you can't argue that the barmy army didnt get to him over in the UK. He melted like butter.

Ricky Ponting said in his book he never played with someone else so talented and gifted that on his day could be so destructive yet at the same time so mentally fragile.

Ponting basically had to manage his mental state during parts of his captaincy.

You left out the disaster he was apart of in 2010/11 Ashes. He had 30 mins of magic in Perth and bowled puss for the rest of that series.

For someone like Mitch who is supposedly big on mental health and used to whinge about the media during his career when they getting stuck into him.

It seems a bit hypocritical he is doing that now what he didn't like about the media as a player by now attacking players/former team mates personally on a semi regular basis.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

Warner has three tests left in his career at most. He won't be dropped. It's just for these three tests anyway. So be it.

Exactly, if he was going to be dropped it would've been midway through last summer, or before the India tour or before the Ashes. if he hasn't been dropped yet, clearly he'll be given his 3 farewell tests.

If there were contenders banging down the door maybe the argument would be different, but he is still our best opener available so I have no issue with it

 

[Westend]

A bit unfortunate that it's the first Test. If we win the first/second I reckon he's a show - has to get a Test this summer surely otherwise we have been carting him around like luggage all over the world for nothing.

Will have to rely on Mitch Marsh to draw a crowd in WA.

I’ll be there going to the 1st and third day hope more Wa fans do the same

 

[FreoRicci]

At times he was soft you can't argue that the barmy army didnt get to him over in the UK. He melted like butter.

Ricky Ponting said in his book he never played with someone else so talented and gifted that on his day could be so destructive yet at the same time so mentally fragile.

Ponting basically had to manage his mental state during parts of his captaincy.

You left out the disaster he was apart of in 2010/11 Ashes. He had 30 mins of magic in Perth and bowled puss for the rest of that series.

For someone like Mitch who is supposedly big on mental health and used to whinge about the media during his career when they getting stuck into him.

It seems a bit hypocritical he is doing that now what he didn't like about the media as a player by now attacking players/former team mates personally on a semi regular basis.

The crap he got from England was pathetic to say the least. The Barmy Army are trash and can be brutal.
Johnson came in replacing McGrath and Brett Lee. Way too much pressure on himself.

Would love a Mitch Johnson type bowler. Feel like Australia misses that. Starc can be that but he’s too placcid/kind for that.

THAT Ashes series will always be top 3 if not best ever Ashes performance. Can’t remember anyone being not only menacing at taking wickets but mentally destroying a whole team.

 

[FreoRicci]

I can't wait for his book though.

Guarantee he will throw Bancroft under the bus.

Personally think the sledging that test match prior got to him and wanted to win as much as possible.
Who was it.. De Kock walking up to the change rooms confronted by Warner? A few players also sledged David about Candice and the Sonny Bill fiasco.

 

[Lia]

I really don't understand why the **** we are still talking about Cape Town 2018. We punished our players for cheating far more severely than any other nation would, the three players in question have been squeaky clean since returning with Bancroft now on the cusp of elbowing his way back into the side by becoming a better player.

I'm not huge on David Warner, but the article is trash written by a guy who at times was as fragile as they come.

 

[4Seasons]

Shield does not re start till February.Perhaps we should be playing some 2nd 11 interstate games in January and some of these border line players can have a bit of red ball cricket but this crap BBC will most likely prevent this happening.

Crap BBL?
What a narcissist.
So my kids are crap?
My wife’s crap?
My neighbours are crap?
You can follow one format without dumping on people who enjoy cricket.
Maybe stick with posting about Maxwell and Test Cricket.

 

[eth-dog]

Crap BBL?
What a narcissist.
So my kids are crap?
My wife’s crap?
My neighbours are crap?
You can follow one format without dumping on people who enjoy cricket.
Maybe stick with posting about Maxwell and Test Cricket.

The BBL is one of the worst T20 comps in the world.

 

[Voice of the G]

Crap BBL?
What a narcissist.
So my kids are crap?
My wife’s crap?
My neighbours are crap?
You can follow one format without dumping on people who enjoy cricket.
Maybe stick with posting about Maxwell and Test Cricket.

Not sure I would call T20 cricket but if they got the scheduling right there is a place for it for people like you.While the tests are on there should be some red ball cricket played so guys pushing for test cricket get the chance to play some red ball cricket but only have BBC to play.

 

[Westend]

At times he was soft you can't argue that the barmy army didnt get to him over in the UK. He melted like butter.

Ricky Ponting said in his book he never played with someone else so talented and gifted that on his day could be so destructive yet at the same time so mentally fragile.

Ponting basically had to manage his mental state during parts of his captaincy.

You left out the disaster he was apart of in 2010/11 Ashes. He had 30 mins of magic in Perth and bowled puss for the rest of that series.

For someone like Mitch who is supposedly big on mental health and used to whinge about the media during his career when they getting stuck into him.

It seems a bit hypocritical he is doing that now what he didn't like about the media as a player by now attacking players/former team mates personally on a semi regular basis.

I thought the way Punter managed Mitch during games was pretty average. Bowled him in longer spells 7/9 overs and tried to find that magical inswing back into the right hander ..ala that game you mentioned above. But due to bowling longer spells he would get tired and then start spraying it all over the place and leaking runs.

When Clarke took over as captain he managed him better IMO. Bowled him in shorter spells 3/4 overs and told him to just bowl fast. And as a result we saw the 2013-14 ashes series plus the tour to South Africa after that series which was the most intimating bowling by a fast bowler in the modern era since Lillee and Thomson in the 70s.

Never seen a quick/fast bowler have such a single impact on a series than Johnson did during that period

 

[burge13]

Not sure I would call T20 cricket but if they got the scheduling right there is a place for it for people like you.While the tests are on there should be some red ball cricket played so guys pushing for test cricket get the chance to play some red ball cricket but only have BBC to play.

Trouble with BBL is its obsession with school holidays which is obviously when tests are on. This isn't going to change even though it would benefit everyone to have BBL after the new years test so the test players played BBL, thus improving it.

Execs are just jumping over themselves to have kids at games even though it's adults that spend money. The diminishing standard of BBL is easily fixed and will (has already) cost them a lot of viewers/money. Could even start it xmas eve so test players come in 12 days later or so + get plenty of school holiday games as well. Shield runs concurrently with tests obviously...

 

[Westend]

Think particularly because the ideas he’s expressed are pretty commonly held - it’s the venom in the writing that puts the columns on another level.

I think its the angst and still ongoing fallout from sandpapergate that still lingers with Mitch and that some players have really not been identified or admitted there wrongdoings during that test, especially the bowling unit.

If you look at the test coming up next week 8 players who where involved during that test at cape town will still be playing.

warner ussie smith marsh starc lyon cummins hazelwood ...

Bancroft Smith and Warner took the wrap and deservedly so. But I still think with Mitch the resentment stems from the bowlers not admitting or owned up to what they where doing on that day and warner getting a farewell test series

Its a shame for those core unit of players regardless of success/failure...the sandpapergate issue will always linger

just my IMO