Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[Yoda_]

Your argument is flawed a coaches primary job is to get the players playing with intensity
applying pressure does not take talent- it takes intent
head coach coaches creates highlights and rewards intent
by your rationale rutten is safe for a three more years or two or one?
i worry about consistent effort and no real forward structure

I feel that the honeymoon period lasted the season and only due to such an even year was highlighted by us making finals.


The coach is struggling to get the players up, to get the players to buy into what he wants etc.

 

[Yoda_]

Have said this multiple times, in this thread and in others, progress on the game style we are trying to implement is non linear, not even close.

Understand it will look like shit until it doesn’t and it may work for quarters and halves and it will wax and wane and you’re looking at something north of a miracle if you’re expecting team based growth this year. Look for individual growth.

It’s a mess, but it’s a mess because the list is a mess and the most unfit in the comp, not because of anything he has any real control over at this point.

I understand this but when you see the opposition dozens of times a game walk the ball out the front of the stoppage, it gets very concerning it is a game plan thing. If Merret isn't doing the defensive stuff, be a head coach and pull him from the rotation. We aren't in a position to just let players do what they want, we need to be setting examples. Same goes for Parish, Caldwell etc.

 

[yodellinhank]

So many issues revolve around our ingrained shitty show up and get paid culture, changing coaches every 3 years aint fixing that.

I'm just so proud of the attitude. Anyone can jam it for telling us to stop smiling.

 

[cobra land]

Rubbish
goLe coast implement man on man hence Sydney struggle against them

I 100 % agree with you, we played a very pressure the ball carrier style last season and then hurt them on their turnovers.
We could see the improvement so why have we gone back to Worsfold's style of play where we allow teams to get from one end to the other without any pressure ?

 

[boncer34]

And?

Ive seen this same story more than a few times this year where we are spanked. Am I supposed to sit around and sing kumbyah pretending to be happy with the appointment ?

You're meant to not revert to form less than a week later.

 

[JayJ20]

I don't know why people cannot see that the players are the problem. Truck wants to base his brand of football on pressure and contested football. That's the right way to win a premiership. The players aren't following directions, particularly the senior mids. Unfortunately at the moment, we have no one on the list to replace underperforming senior players because we have no midfield depth.

What Rutten has to do is undo all the list management mistakes made by Dodoro, the rest of the list managers and the previous coaches (who gave into fan demand to win meaningless H&A games by playing attacking football that doesn't stand up in finals). He has to build a contested side through aggressive trading and clever drafting.

He's essentially at the beginning of where Hardwick was at Richmond and Goodwin was at Melbourne
The real test for Rutten is how he handles the off-season. I'm hoping for an aggressive off-season that fixes our midfield balance and adds more blue-collar type players to our list. We also desperately need to improve our marking ability around the ground.

 

[DapperDon]

It's hard when the foundations the club have set are systemically flawed. That's how you end up with a Woosha extension and a Rutten signing.

Ask yourself - why aren't some players giving effort? Are they capable and choosing not to, or completely incapable?

I've been asking myself that since Knights 2010, it's now 12 years and 5 coaches later.

I'd happily do a firesale of any player who isn't on board Ruttens vision, any of them, as that is something different, and this club needs to do something different to get out of this pile of shit we have become over the past decade or so.

 

[Beerfish]

I've been asking myself that since Knights 2010, it's now 12 years and 5 coaches later.

I'd happily do a firesale of any player who isn't on board Ruttens vision, any of them, as that is something different, and this club needs to do something different to get out of this pile of shit we have become over the past decade or so.

maybe we could look into sports science. supplements and stuff.. you know?

 

[DapperDon]

Your argument is flawed a coaches primary job is to get the players playing with intensity
applying pressure does not take talent- it takes intent
head coach coaches creates highlights and rewards intent
by your rationale rutten is safe for a three more years or two or one?
i worry about consistent effort and no real forward structure

Any player who doesn't agree with the coaches vision, can go play reserves then get traded/delisted end of season.

 

[cobra land]

Have said this multiple times, in this thread and in others, progress on the game style we are trying to implement is non linear, not even close.

Understand it will look like shit until it doesn’t and it may work for quarters and halves and it will wax and wane and you’re looking at something north of a miracle if you’re expecting team based growth this year. Look for individual growth.

It’s a mess, but it’s a mess because the list is a mess and the most unfit in the comp, not because of anything he has any real control over at this point.

Well you have to play with the list you have unfortunately and as I've said previously it seemed to work last season, I thought we may have continued to implement that same style with a few minor tweaks ?
Instead we are back to the style that Worsfold had us playing.

 

[boncer34]

maybe we could look into sports science. supplements and stuff.. you know?

That bloke who was at Geelong during their premiership run has been pretty quiet lately.

 

[boncer34]

Well you have to play with the list you have unfortunately and as I've said previously it seemed to work last season, I thought we may have continued to implement that same style with a few minor tweaks ?
Instead we are back to the style that Worsfold had us playing.

That style wins enough games to maybe squeak into the 8 though.

It doesn't win flags.

 

[cobra land]

That style wins enough games to maybe squeak into the 8 though.

It doesn't win flags.

I'd take that right now, wouldn't you ?
We have gone backwards and quickly !

 

[boncer34]

I'd take that right now, wouldn't you ?
We have gone backwards and quickly !

No.

Taking the easy win for short term gains to please the supporter base has happened for the past 20 years.

It hasn't been fun.

 

[Yoda_]

No.

Taking the easy win for short term gains to please the supporter base has happened for the past 20 years.

It hasn't been fun.

Zach Package has been suggesting for weeks now to trust the process (sounds familiar as a 76ers fan) but how long do we wait until we see the opposition walking the ball out the front of the stoppage?

 

[JayJ20]

It's hard when the foundations the club have set are systemically flawed. That's how you end up with a Woosha extension and a Rutten signing.

Ask yourself - why aren't some players giving effort? Are they capable and choosing not to, or completely incapable?

Ok so what can Rutten do to change the culture of underperforming senior players when he has no one to replace them with? Under how many coaches have the same players played unaccountable football? Could it not be a product of previous coaches that focused on attack and neglected team defence?

At some point, you have to realise that coaches can only work with what they have. The only way the culture changes is with competition for spots and a more balanced list. We need more players that are capable of consistently applying Rutten's vision (which has proven to be very successful at Richmond).

Maybe it's time to consider trading some players that aren't committed to team defence and playing with consistency.

 

[Burzum]

Rutten might be a shit coach but he hasn't even been given a chance. He would find another job in AFL pretty quickly. Dudoro on the other hand...

 

[TheGrizz]

I'd take that right now, wouldn't you ?
We have gone backwards and quickly !

No I wouldn't.

I would rather take a broom to the list and sweep out any player who wants to do his own thing and not give 100% effort and follow coaching direction.

I would also prefer to recruit to a strategy, with specific traits that winning teams have (competitiveness, effort, pressure, discipline) over speculative, talented types.

I would then afford the supposed two strategic architects of the most brutally efficient pressure team of the last 30 years the ability to coach up a team that is actually going to try and do what the coaches ask of them.

What I dont want is to play a bruise free, front running brand of footy because that is what the players want, then sack our 7th coach since Sheedy because we lost yet another bruise free final.

 

[bomberstomake8]

I think people have got to remember how many coaches we have had since 2004. We are kidding ourselves if we continue to just blame the coach. The consistent people that have been at the club the whole time are the people that should get the blame. Our CEO for one..

Rutten may not be the right person for the job but those who have been here since 2004 have proven that they are not capable. The only coach since 2004 that has shown capability to take this club forward was hird. Most likely because he had the power through members and the board to do whatever the hell he wanted. Somethings up at the club and it’s far bigger than the coach

 

[Zach Package]

Well you have to play with the list you have unfortunately and as I've said previously it seemed to work last season, I thought we may have continued to implement that same style with a few minor tweaks ?
Instead we are back to the style that Worsfold had us playing.

With all due respect, seems like you’re after a bob each way.

You want us to stick with the rubbish from last year that was essentially just dogs chasing a ball around a park but at the same time implement a game style to win more games.

This is how we get there. Break it down before it can be rebuilt, Rutten is still firmly breaking it down, and it wouldn’t surprise me if we stay in that phase for the next 12 months.

Modulate expectations to suit, you’ll sleep better.

 

[cobra land]

No.

Taking the easy win for short term gains to please the supporter base has happened for the past 20 years.

It hasn't been fun.

Please, we made the eight last season so it worked, just tweak it to suit our list.
They way we are playing at the moment is pathetic and we are losing supporters in droves, just read the comments on here.
I refuse to go and watch that crap they're playing at the moment and I have been a members for over 25 years and I can't remember ever feeling this way.
FWIW I'm not in the sack Rutten camp but he needs to change the way were playing because the club is a laughing stock at the moment.

 

[VelvetSledge]

No I wouldn't.

I would rather take a broom to the list and sweep out any player who wants to do his own thing and not give 100% effort and follow coaching direction.

I would also prefer to recruit to a strategy, with specific traits that winning teams have (competitiveness, effort, pressure, discipline) over speculative, talented types.

I would then afford the supposed two strategic architects of the most brutally efficient pressure team of the last 30 years the ability to coach up a team that is actually going to try and do what the coaches ask of them.

What I dont want is to play a bruise free, front running brand of footy because that is what the players want, then sack our 7th coach since Sheedy because we lost yet another bruise free final.

At the risk of looking like mods patting each other on the back, ******* spot on

 

[boncer34]

Please, we made the eight last season so it worked, just tweak it to suit our list.
They way we are playing at the moment is pathetic and we are losing supporters in droves, just read the comments on here.
I refuse to go and watch that crap they're playing at the moment and I have been a members for over 25 years and I can't remember ever feeling this way.
FWIW I'm not in the sack Rutten camp but he needs to change the way were playing because the club is a laughing stock at the moment.

Yes. It got us into the 8. And then it got wrecked week 1.

****ing lol at the "read the comments on here."

Usual suspects rocking up after a loss to have a sook. Oh no, how heartbreaking. Maybe they should grow up.

 

[ghostdog]

I don't know why people cannot see that the players are the problem. Truck wants to base his brand of football on pressure and contested football. That's the right way to win a premiership. The players aren't following directions, particularly the senior mids. Unfortunately at the moment, we have no one on the list to replace underperforming senior players because we have no midfield depth.

What Rutten has to do is undo all the list management mistakes made by Dodoro, the rest of the list managers and the previous coaches (who gave into fan demand to win meaningless H&A games by playing attacking football that doesn't stand up in finals). He has to build a contested side through aggressive trading and clever drafting.

He's essentially at the beginning of where Hardwick was at Richmond and Goodwin was at Melbourne
The real test for Rutten is how he handles the off-season. I'm hoping for an aggressive off-season that fixes our midfield balance and adds more blue-collar type players to our list. We also desperately need to improve our marking ability around the ground.

Agree with this. There are few who are willing and too many switch off. Perkins, Hobbs, Laverde, Caldwell, Durham, Redman consistently crack in.

As for marking, Draper needs to capitalise on his athleticism and we need to get Nic Cox out there.

 

[Yoda_]

With all due respect, seems like you’re after a bob each way.

You want us to stick with the rubbish from last year that was essentially just dogs chasing a ball around a park but at the same time implement a game style to win more games.

This is how we get there. Break it down before it can be rebuilt, Rutten is still firmly breaking it down, and it wouldn’t surprise me if we stay in that phase for the next 12 months.

Modulate expectations to suit, you’ll sleep better.

Im going to take it that you were expecting us to be shit this year. Most aren't surprised us going backwards but sitting third last behind two shambles of football clubs, yeah, that's reason enough to begrudge what is going on.