Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

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TheGrizz said:
If they wouldnt, then that isn't the type of player I am interested in having.

Effort shouldn't be conditional.
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A common refrain tonight, so it seems

 

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Very good presser from Rutten tonight. It seems like there is an internal battle between Rutten and some senior players. My guess is that it's McGrath (who has put off contract talks apparently), Parish, Merrett and Shiel, who may think they are are at Dusty / Bont / Danger levels. Perhaps, the team is really missing the efforts and team lifting stuff that Snelling and Tippa used to bring. Rutten suggested that tonight was not the time to single individuals out or even berate them internally post game it seems. Not sure how sensible the latter is but it seems he has faith in being able to turn these 'senior' players around. I hope so before it begins to affect guys like Jones, Perkins, Reid, Cox etc. I hope the club backs Rutten and Cara in.
 
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I am honestly in the Rutten camp for the mere fact our kick outs have stunk absolute arseh*le for the past 2.5 years and not ONE THING has been done about it. Honestly, how does a FT coach and FT coaching support sit there and watch the same game I do each week and not see how poor, uncreative and ineffective it is?? I don't get it.

Kick out to back pocket, back pocket goes long down the line, we have 0 ariel threats/contested marking beasts (which has been the case for the last 2-3 years) lost the ariel battle, comes back in the our defence, rinse and repeat. Week in, week out. We just persist. What in the honest ****. How can we not be learning from such obvious mistakes?

Every team we play meanwhile, just seem to always find an easy target down the corridor and just go end to end with such ease.

It is just unacceptable. When this glaring an error occurs week in week out and keeps getting repeated - is it simply not a coaching failure?
 
Yoda_ said:
Im going to take it that you were expecting us to be shit this year. Most aren't surprised us going backwards but sitting third last behind two shambles of football clubs, yeah, that's reason enough to begrudge what is going on.
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Without going back and finding it, yes I have mentioned multiple times that we would be shit.

The one thing everyone is seemingly really quick to leap upon with Truck is the thing that is actually not a concern for me at all and that’s whether he has a vision.

The blueprint for what he wants is pretty plain to see, the issues are that we are a perfect storm for not being able to implement what he wants.

  • Limited forward 50 targets to stop the footy and give everyone a rest.
  • Poor running capacity to get back and provide cover
  • Poor skills and decision making that leads to turnovers in key areas
  • Smaller midfield that can’t consistently dictate terms on the inside.

He will need time and a couple more pieces to turn this into something.
 
VexOh said:
Kick out to back pocket, back pocket goes long down the line, we have 0 ariel threats/contested marking beasts (which has been the case for the last 2-3 years) lost the ariel battle, comes back in the our defence, rinse and repeat. Week in, week out. We just persist. What in the honest fu**. How can we not be learning from such obvious mistakes?
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Not only did we have no ariel threat, but Luke Parker played alright too.
 
Zach Package said:
Without going back and finding it, yes I have mentioned multiple times that we would be shit.

The one thing everyone is seemingly really quick to leap upon with Truck is the thing that is actually not a concern for me at all and that’s whether he has a vision.

The blueprint for what he wants is pretty plain to see, the issues are that we are a perfect storm for not being able to implement what he wants.

  • Limited forward 50 targets to stop the footy and give everyone a rest.
  • Poor running capacity to get back and provide cover
  • Poor skills and decision making that leads to turnovers in key areas
  • Smaller midfield that can’t consistently dictate terms on the inside.

He will need time and a couple more pieces to turn this into something.
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Rutten was second fiddle with full knowledge he was getting the top job post 2020 (first off season) and then one full year in the top job (2021) so at the end of this year will be year 3 of Rutten's fingerprints being on this list.


Im ok with giving him time, just bored of seeing opposition teams doing the same things to us week in, week out. It's gets very boring and frustrating.
 
tesla1962 said:
Very good presser from Rutten tonight. It seems like there is an internal battle between Rutten and some senior players. My guess is that it's McGrath (who has put off contract talks apparently), Parish, Merrett and Shiel, who may think they are are at Dusty / Bont / Danger levels. Perhaps, the team is really missing the efforts and team lifting stuff that Snelling and Tippa used to bring. Rutten suggested that tonight was not the time to single individuals out or even berate them post game it seems. Not sure how sensible this is but it seems he has faith in being able to turn these 'senior' players around. I hope so before it begins to affect guys like Jones, Perkins, Reid, Cox etc. I hope the club backs Rutten and Cara in.
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Definitely missing the forward pressure of Snello and Walla. We can be very good at the CBs, but we need to be able to capitalise on being able to then lock it in. Also missing strong targets like Stringer and Jones (and possibly Cox), and an athletic ruckman who rarely takes a mark let alone one in the forward fifty.

McGrath has been on radio reinforcing Truck's message re: tackling, pressure, the contest and accountability so I don't think he was referring to him. Yoda_ showed a stat demonstrating the marshmallowness of Merrett this year. Maybe him.
 

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Yoda_ said:
Im ok with giving him time, just bored of seeing opposition teams doing the same things to us week in, week out. It's gets very boring and frustrating.
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................

Literally 2 hours ago
Yoda_ said:
Was never sold and tonight I feel confirms all my reservations


Shows very little emotion which looks great on the outside but when he speaks, Im not running through brick walls for him.

The fact we head hunted him on the back of head hunting how many coaches of the last 20 years with little to no great results is an indictment on the football club.

I'd move him on at years end if we don't start seeing improvement from the guys who did improve on last year but have regressed since.
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So which is it?
 
Yoda_ said:
Rutten was second fiddle with full knowledge he was getting the top job post 2020 (first off season) and then one full year in the top job (2021) so at the end of this year will be year 3 of Rutten's fingerprints being on this list.


Im ok with giving him time, just bored of seeing opposition teams doing the same things to us week in, week out. It's gets very boring and frustrating.
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What? He's not even two years in the top job.
 
Yoda_ said:
Rutten was second fiddle with full knowledge he was getting the top job post 2020 (first off season) and then one full year in the top job (2021) so at the end of this year will be year 3 of Rutten's fingerprints being on this list.


Im ok with giving him time, just bored of seeing opposition teams doing the same things to us week in, week out. It's gets very boring and frustrating.
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Like it or not, he ultimately was not the coach in 2020, so that does not count. It was messy and you can discuss the off field until the cows come home but he is in game 32 as a senior coach and from his first game to tonight there were only 10 players out there tonight so he’s not doing some minor retooling, this is a tear down and do again from scratch.

There’s also good boring and bad boring.

I would classify this as good boring and losing in the right way, he’s not continuing to just chuck +1s behind the footy or outnumbers at the contest to stem bleeding, he’s still holding a couple of forwards relatively deep to give us some kind of target for the most part and he’s picking kids and playing them in position.

The only thing stopping us from having even more kids out there tonight is a couple of injuries.
 
tesla1962 said:
Very good presser from Rutten tonight. It seems like there is an internal battle between Rutten and some senior players. My guess is that it's McGrath (who has put off contract talks apparently), Parish, Merrett and Shiel, who may think they are are at Dusty / Bont / Danger levels. Perhaps, the team is really missing the efforts and team lifting stuff that Snelling and Tippa used to bring. Rutten suggested that tonight was not the time to single individuals out or even berate them post game it seems. Not sure how sensible this is but it seems he has faith in being able to turn these 'senior' players around. I hope so before it begins to affect guys like Jones, Perkins, Reid, Cox etc. I hope the club backs Rutten and Cara in.
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Listening to McGrath and Parish's pod, I get the impression that McGrath leads and Parish follows but if senior players are pushing back then the coach needs to either take that feedback on board and change things or he needs to lay down the law by dropping players because a healthy team environment will enable two way debate but there comes a point where the team has to make decisions and stick to it.
 
Zach Package said:
Like it or not, he ultimately was not the coach in 2020, so that does not count. It was messy and you can discuss the off field until the cows come home but he is in game 32 as a senior coach and from his first game to tonight there were only 10 players out there tonight so he’s not doing some minor retooling, this is a tear down and do again from scratch.

There’s also good boring and bad boring.

I would classify this as good boring and losing in the right way, he’s not continuing to just chuck +1s behind the footy or outnumbers at the contest to stem bleeding, he’s still holding a couple of forwards relatively deep to give us some kind of target for the most part and he’s picking kids and playing them in position.

The only thing stopping us from having even more kids out there tonight is a couple of injuries.
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It's a moot discussion anyway because he has the full support of the board who have acknowledged that we will have a long road. They are obviously willing to do it the hard way, as it should be. People need to calm down.
 
bomberstomake8 said:
I think people have got to remember how many coaches we have had since 2004. We are kidding ourselves if we continue to just blame the coach. The consistent people that have been at the club the whole time are the people that should get the blame. Our CEO for one..

Rutten may not be the right person for the job but those who have been here since 2004 have proven that they are not capable. The only coach since 2004 that has shown capability to take this club forward was hird. Most likely because he had the power through members and the board to do whatever the hell he wanted. Somethings up at the club and it’s far bigger than the coach
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Hasn't the CEO overseen 2 INTERNAL reviews in his time, with no obvious improvement stemming from them? Despite significant changes to coaching and players personnel since 2014.

Probably time to do an external review. He likely doesn't want to do that though since they'll point to him as being one of the main issues.
 
Looks sooooooooooooooooo frustrated.

Gotta go back to basics

Get the ball - handball or kick forwards or sideways at 45 degrees to a contest or open space where it's 1 v 1
 
1 v 1 is better than going backwards then kicking to 2 on 1s or 3 on 1s
 
I think Rutten needs time no matter what as there is no point replacing him at this stage of the rebuild.

But if he can't get our 'senior' mids to apply more pressure than these absolute disaster efforts he's going to be in trouble. The superstars / the untouchables.have him by the balls - meantime there is ZERO surprise here that anything remotely resembling midfield leadership last night came from Hobbs, Caldwell, Martin and Draper - with about 30 gamed between them.

That is a situation that is 100% on the coach to fix. Its his job. If he can't get Merrett and Parish and Shiel to do the hard defensive work then he is in trouble.

Rutten should demanding Dodoro burns up the wires for a deal on Parish (and anything he can for Shiel) -And finds us a mature mid Who will do the hard work (and a pic).

Time for the club to actually be bold and get out ahead of our slow motion car crash of a midfield. People talk about finals football - this is not a finals winning midfield.
 
TheGrizz said:
No I wouldn't.

I would rather take a broom to the list and sweep out any player who wants to do his own thing and not give 100% effort and follow coaching direction.

I would also prefer to recruit to a strategy, with specific traits that winning teams have (competitiveness, effort, pressure, discipline) over speculative, talented types.

I would then afford the supposed two strategic architects of the most brutally efficient pressure team of the last 30 years the ability to coach up a team that is actually going to try and do what the coaches ask of them.

What I dont want is to play a bruise free, front running brand of footy because that is what the players want, then sack our 7th coach since Sheedy because we lost yet another bruise free final.
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This is really ruttens third year in charge.
he was coach in waiting when our club disintegrated in the hubs and we lost a stack of players who quite frankly did not believe in him and the club.
he galvanised the club last year and snuck in the 8 on a soft draw. Then played Marty Gleeson in a final effort which was poor. Now the players are giving conditional effort once more. Our 1st quarter was ok but it got hard and we turned over like we usually do.
‘this is really ruttens third year and he was appointed without a formal interview process.
‘I think if you showed this performance in business your job would be HEAVILY SCRUTINISED.
 
I honestly don't think anything will change with us even if they replaced truck with clarkson, scott, hinkley etc....

Althou last nights effort was really poor and we couldn't lay tackles or kick goals or control the game or do anything except be witches hats.

I think that all this boils down to ether a development issue (the players are not understanding several game styles that have been implemented from different coaches throughout the last 5 years (run and gun, then slow and steady, then run and carry again), Players not next stepping up or improving year on year (i.e. Redman bad 2020, better 2021, bad 2020, Hind good first year 2021 bad 2022, Devon Smith great first year awful since. no A graders at all at our club after 15 years i.e. Andy Mcgrath both Tarranto and Mccluggage have gone past him and both kick goals and can influence games Mcgrath is ok but has stagnated and will just be a ok AFL player Mccluggage is A grader.

A recruiting issue Adrian Dodoro find players (draft, free agency or trade) that look good on paper but can't ether play the way the coaches want them too or are not equipped too.
I.e. Nic Cox, Aaron Francis, Dylan Clarke, Zac Clarke, Dylan Shiel, Devon Smith, Alec Waterman (accurate at goal but can't lay tackles or play anywhere else except full forward (there's way more just can't be bothered listing them)

A Fitness or conditioning issue look at half our players try to run out games Aaron Francis, Sam Draper, Jake Stinger (always injuried or overweight), Darcy Parish most likely our best midfielder he has fat rolls (see half time against collingwood in change room) which i am probably being harsh on but if your an AFL player they shouldn't have any fat on your body you get paid to be a professional athlete, Kyle Langford (always injuried).

or a Leadership issue mainly on field issues. like we are good when things are going our way or the other team is having an off night, but when things are going against us i.e. last night we conceded a goal in the first quarter with 4 seconds left we dropped our heads and got hammered. when we get bad free kicks against us and things don't go right we usually drop our heads and lose badly. no one really stands up haven't had an effective leader since Watson, Hird and i can't see anyone in the current list taking us to the promised land of a premiership.

I am just an amateur footy observer but I Love Essendon and i want them win finals and challange but its going to be a long road ahead and I can't see us ever winning anything, i guess it can change quickly but can't see it
 
cobra land said:
Yep keep the excuses coming, we have gone backwards which ever way you dress it.
Good coaches will change the style of play if it's not working but hey nothing to see here, we are flying.
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Do you want a premiership or another middle of the road EF thrashing?

I'd rather finish bottom while working towards a sustainable brand of football (and removing players that don't listen) than another 8th place finish. Otherwise you'll go through another 5 coaches with zero change like we already have.
 

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Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8


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