Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[Booplaz]

Pardon my French, but he’s been royally ****ed by injuries and failed trades this year. Stringer was a top 3 player competition wide in the 2nd half of 2021 and has succumbed to hamstrings this year. Snelling, Walla and failed trades for Rosas and Hill have left us devoid of any small forwards. Not to mention Jones and Langford injuries robbing Wright of any aerial support.

A fit Stringer, Langford and Jones paired with a couple of bigger mids and small forwards and we’re golden.

 

[faible]

Pardon my French, but he’s been royally ducked by injuries and failed trades this year. Stringer was a top 3 player competition wide in the 2nd half of 2021 and has succumbed to hamstrings this year. Snelling, Walla and failed trades for Rosas and Hill have left us devoid of any small forwards. Not to mention Jones and Langford injuries robbing Wright of any aerial support.

A fit Stringer, Langford and Jones paired with a couple of bigger mids and small forwards and we’re golden.

Forwardline? What's that?

 

[coastalpipeline]

If they sack Rutten they need to sack themselves as well.

Under pressure may mean more players being made examples of - and players who want to follow instructions being given extended opportunities. Lots of good things can happen under pressure.

Say a 1-11 win loss would definitely see that scenario and is quite possible from here.

2-8 does it for me.
Sack him!

 

[faible]

2-8 does it for me.
Sack him!

 

[lenny2013]

Over time the rebuild coach rarely makes it through to the glory.
Unfortunately the odds are against truck I think.

 

[Shanghaistu]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with our woeful display this year, but can we realistically talk about moving on an 18-month old coach when we still have people like XC, Dodoro and Brasher who have been presiding of the dumpster fire for 10+ years and a ‘saga’ residual that hasn’t completely washed through yet? I’m not saying he’s a great coach, but we won’t know until he really gets to do things on his own terms and the ‘baggage’ of deadwood people and ‘apologist’ culture can finally be laid to rest…

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with our woeful display this year, but can we realistically talk about moving on an 18-month old coach when we still have people like XC, Dodoro and Brasher who have been presiding of the dumpster fire for 10+ years and a ‘saga’ residual that hasn’t completely washed through yet? I’m not saying he’s a great coach, but we won’t know until he really gets to do things on his own terms and the ‘baggage’ of deadwood people and ‘apologist’ culture can finally be laid to rest…

Personally I think we're lucky to have a child prodigy for a coach who got us to finals before he reached his first birthday. A keeper for years to come.

Shows the right passion too...

 

[ghostdog]

Anyone ever seen Truck attending other games? Geelong v WB and Melbourne v. Sydney should be compulsory.

 

[ant555]

Anyone ever seen Truck attending other games? Geelong v WB and Melbourne v. Sydney should be compulsory.

You know he is not there ?
Have seen him at a couple of games personally.

 

[ghostdog]

You know he is not there ?
Have seen him at a couple of games personally.

No, just wondering.

 

[foj1]

Long way from Macedon

 

[BomberManU]

The 'Doomsday Scenario' is approaching - x3 prime time Friday night games in a row. Really need to win one of these, to relieve the pressure on BR. I don't think anyone expects us to win the first two, but we must be competitive. And, if we lose the third, against WCE???

 

[BrunoV]

The 'Doomsday Scenario' is approaching - x3 prime time Friday night games in a row. Really need to win one of these, to relieve the pressure on BR. I don't think anyone expects us to win the first two, but we must be competitive. And, if we lose the third, against WCE???

Yep.

It gets beyond the control of the board if we get belted twice and then cough up the game to WCE.

You'd have to start questioning Rutten pretty seriously anyway.

 

[bombreys]

Yep.

It gets beyond the control of the board if we get belted twice and then cough up the game to WCE.

You'd have to start questioning Rutten pretty seriously anyway.

Was thinking exactly this.

I we lose to Carlton and St Kilda - I dare say he'd be coaching for his career against West Coast. I don't necessarily agree with it, but if we're 2-11 and lose to the Eagles, I reckon that might be it.

 

[citizen-erased]

Was thinking exactly this.

I we lose to Carlton and St Kilda - I dare say he'd be coaching for his career against West Coast. I don't necessarily agree with it, but if we're 2-11 and lose to the Eagles, I reckon that might be it.

would be extremely premature to judge him on this year.

We don't have depth
We lack a midfield that is compatible with modern football
Injuries have robbed him of 80% of our fwd line for most of the season.
Retirement and lack of replacements has taken us backwards in our overall development
It's year 2 of a rebuild.

If we sack Rutten, the entire board and executive should relieve themselves too.
It's far too early to put this on coaching.

 

[bombreys]

would be extremely premature to judge him on this year.

We don't have depth
We lack a midfield that is compatible with modern football
Injuries have robbed him of 80% of our fwd line for most of the season.
Retirement and lack of replacements has taken us backwards in our overall development
It's year 2 of a rebuild.

If we sack Rutten, the entire board and executive should relieve themselves too.
It's far too early to put this on coaching.

Something would have to happen though.

Every team goes through retirements and injuries. Again, not saying I necessarily agree with it. But if we lose our next three, including to West Coast, you can't just say 'we've had a few injuries and retirements' and move along. Especially if we have another Sydney-like game, where it's clear the players don't want to be out there/can't be bothered.

We showed some fight in the second half against Port - there'll need to be a lot more of that. W's and L's aren't everything for a rebuilding club, but lack of effort can't be tolerated.

I'm not pinning all of our failures on Rutten, but it is normally the coaches that tend to be the scapegoat.

 

[citizen-erased]

Something would have to happen though.

Every team goes through retirements and injuries. Again, not saying I necessarily agree with it. But if we lose our next three, including to West Coast, you can't just say 'we've had a few injuries and retirements' and move along. Especially if we have another Sydney-like game, where it's clear the players don't want to be out there/can't be bothered.

We showed some fight in the second half against Port - there'll need to be a lot more of that. W's and L's aren't everything for a rebuilding club, but lack of effort can't be tolerated.

I'm not pinning all of our failures on Rutten, but it is normally the coaches that tend to be the scapegoat.

im not normally one to excuse injury, but I do put that more on the list team to build depth to cover.
But to have so much of one line, and that line being the forwards, is worth considering.

I looked at last years stats. Between Snelling, Stringer, Hooker, Tippa, Langford, Jones we're missing 9 goals a game.
Pretty damning. And when you consider we're effectively relying on our VFL fwd line + Wright & Perkins, it's any wonder the ball goes from HF to our defensive 50 so easily.

 

[faible]

would be extremely premature to judge him on this year.

We don't have depth
We lack a midfield that is compatible with modern football
Injuries have robbed him of 80% of our fwd line for most of the season.
Retirement and lack of replacements has taken us backwards in our overall development
It's year 2 of a rebuild.

If we sack Rutten, the entire board and executive should relieve themselves too.
It's far too early to put this on coaching.

The other thing is, the whole 'blue collar' football ethos Rutten talks about building, still needs to be built regardless of who the coach is.

It needs to be instilled in the playing group, drafted for, traded for, and repeated until it becomes part of the DNA of the club the way Sydney has done.

Replacing Rutten doesn't change that it'll take time to achieve that. Maybe someone else could do it better, or faster, but it's still not a 1 year fix. If we turfed Rutten then suddenly came out next year playing front-running football under a new coach to finish mid-table we'll be going nowhere.

Missing most of our first choice forward-line, including some very important structural players, at a time when we're fielding on the least experienced 22 players each week, with a dearth of genuine leadership, is a pretty big cause for our results.

 

[bombreys]

im not normally one to excuse injury, but I do put that more on the list team to build depth to cover.
But to have so much of one line, and that line being the forwards, is worth considering.

I looked at last years stats. Between Snelling, Stringer, Hooker, Tippa, Langford, Jones we're missing 9 goals a game.
Pretty damning. And when you consider we're effectively relying on our VFL fwd line + Wright & Perkins, it's any wonder the ball goes from HF to our defensive 50 so easily.

Nothing you're saying is untrue.

I just think, rightly or wrongly, his job will be in jeopardy if we're 2-11 and proceed to lose to the bottom side.

 

[IHurley]

Our injury list is better than Carlton's. Or Geelong's.

That's not to say injuries haven't hurt us but the excuse is starting to wear thin. More to the point, how does it explain why opposition teams regularly have an easy, uncontested path to goal through the middle of the ground?

 

[faible]

Our injury list is better than Carlton's. Or Geelong's.

Not really, given our current list demographic.

That's not to say injuries haven't hurt us but the excuse is starting to wear thin

It's partly an excuse as to why we get such little reward for effort.

More to the point, how does it explain why opposition teams regularly have an easy, uncontested path to goal through the middle of the ground?

It doesn't fully. But does partly.

 

[eth-dog]

Schnitzengruben and I were debating this elsewhere. There are two trains of thought as to whether or not we should be investing time into Truck.

My philosophy is that we've reached a point as a club that we have to. Some of our players are refusing to buy in defensively. This has been the case with one of the best defensive coaches of the past 20 years in Woosha and now with the guy who built Richmond's defensive game plan that won 3 premierships in 4 years. For me we have to be 100% sure that he isn't the guy to sack him now.

His is that we have to be 100% sure that he is the guy to back him in at least for the remainder of his contract, especially with Clarko around and available. That's fair enough and I can understand that point of view.

All that being said, if we fall to 2-12 then the jungle drums will be beating

 

[Lore]

Schnitzengruben and I were debating this elsewhere. There are two trains of thought as to whether or not we should be investing time into Truck.

My philosophy is that we've reached a point as a club that we have to. Some of our players are refusing to buy in defensively. This has been the case with one of the best defensive coaches of the past 20 years in Woosha and now with the guy who built Richmond's defensive game plan that won 3 premierships in 4 years. For me we have to be 100% sure that he isn't the guy to sack him now.

His is that we have to be 100% sure that he is the guy to back him in at least for the remainder of his contract, especially with Clarko around and available. That's fair enough and I can understand that point of view.

All that being said, if we fall to 2-12 then the jungle drums will be beating

I think you get to the end of the year and you evaluate things properly from there.

I think he has the players and that’s really important. I think he has the right attitude towards his own development as well as the list. And I agree he’s the guy to teach them to defend. But I think he also needs the support and the resources to do that.

He’s still quite green as a senior coach, and while the list has been restumped, it still needs a new floor, patch up the roof, and a complete rewiring. Redeveloping the list has to be the priority in terms of personnel, individual development, and team cohesion.

• in the VFL with a proper team of coaches, a list of competent VFL players and appropriate support staff in place. This requires money and an off-season.
• review the assistant coaching panel and maybe put them in the roles where they’ve previously had success. Might be too many cooks in the kitchen.
• bring in a director of coaching that believes in Rutten and the program, works well with Mahoney (and Campbell/the board ) and can mentor him properly to become the senior coach he is determined to be.

Probably some reexamination of fitness and wellbeing needed as well so that when you find the right players and you spend time developing them that they’re actually available to play.

I suspect a couple of those things may happen imminently with regard to the VFL team and maybe the DoC with this broad ranging not-a-review, but the assistants and the reallocation of some of that budget are harder to sort out if we’re not sacking anyone (though they do need to know by the end of August if they have a job next year so that isn’t too far away).

 

[citizen-erased]

Nothing you're saying is untrue.

I just think, rightly or wrongly, his job will be in jeopardy if we're 2-11 and proceed to lose to the bottom side.

im preparing for 3-19 (we'll slip against one of the eagles or roos, I just know it)

And happy to take that, back Rutten in and re-load for next year. Accept we're in for pain. Accept that we won't know if Rutten is the coach or not for another 2 years min. And just work with that.

Schnitzengruben and I were debating this elsewhere. There are two trains of thought as to whether or not we should be investing time into Truck.

My philosophy is that we've reached a point as a club that we have to. Some of our players are refusing to buy in defensively. This has been the case with one of the best defensive coaches of the past 20 years in Woosha and now with the guy who built Richmond's defensive game plan that won 3 premierships in 4 years. For me we have to be 100% sure that he isn't the guy to sack him now.

His is that we have to be 100% sure that he is the guy to back him in at least for the remainder of his contract, especially with Clarko around and available. That's fair enough and I can understand that point of view.

All that being said, if we fall to 2-12 then the jungle drums will be beating

This is why I reckon back him.
He needs another 2 years turning this over, building depth and pressure on spots, finding out who he trusts and who he can't.

2-12 can't be seen as a disaster. Omelettes and eggs. Cop a couple of hard years. Proper hard too. no yo-yoing into 8th every 2nd/3rd year.
tread the path Melbourne, Richmond, Brisbane, Carlton, Freo have and have patience with it.

 

[citizen-erased]

The other thing is, the whole 'blue collar' football ethos Rutten talks about building, still needs to be built regardless of who the coach is.

It needs to be instilled in the playing group, drafted for, traded for, and repeated until it becomes part of the DNA of the club the way Sydney has done.

Replacing Rutten doesn't change that it'll take time to achieve that. Maybe someone else could do it better, or faster, but it's still not a 1 year fix. If we turfed Rutten then suddenly came out next year playing front-running football under a new coach to finish mid-table we'll be going nowhere.

Missing most of our first choice forward-line, including some very important structural players, at a time when we're fielding on the least experienced 22 players each week, with a dearth of genuine leadership, is a pretty big cause for our results.

I'd like to see us be patient

Knights had 2.5 years
Hird was allowed to step over the line with a program to fast-track
We thought Bomber was the man in 2015, then didn't. or didn't know what we wanted
Worsfold was a quick, temp fix

Rutten was cherry picked. if Campbell and co. headhunt him over an interview process, back him when we commit to the rebuild and trip over calls for a review in support of him, then they've tied their sails to him and his ship.