Scandal Former player suing AFL over racial abuse, sexual harassment

[Acinath]

Did somebody say “Cash grab opportunity?”

Not buying this for a second.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Shine lawyers says it all - no win - no fee

These law firms only take on cases they think they can win otherwise it costs them money and solicitors don't like losing their own money, yours and mine yes, but not their own

 

[Aussie in exile]

Two former AFL players have allegedly come forward with similar claims, according to his lawyer. So who is Harry's mate?

Ah the smell of money

 

[Roovolution]

Racially motivated sexual harassment does sound like he was teased for having a massive dick.

Or maybe he was teased because he was a black man who DIDNT have a massive dick.....think about it people. Am I right or am I right?

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

I don't like the AFL much but one thing they are very strict on is racism. So we are to believe he got racially abused etc back in 2013 and watied 5 years to become 'aggrieved'. To say the AFL did not take it seriously is a joke, just ask Matt Rendell. As for the comments re the crowd, give me a break we all know it is not tolerated.

A spurious claim and it will be his word against everyone else. Ambulance chasers like Shine work on the basis that they will get a settlement and never go to court. Won't work in this case, the AFL, as the owners of the Suns would have settled if there was any truth.

 

[MrKK]

Honestly - I don't know. If there was an easy fix, it would have been done by now.

I'm just trying to see things from his perspective

I may have misinterpreted his comments, but my sense was that he felt that the AFL had attacked Sherman (and the spectators) in a public manner, without addressing the underlying, low-level stuff that sets the scene for the bigger stuff. So he feels the AFL pretended to be tough on racism by publicly scape-goating Sherman and the spectators, but actually ignored the low-level, everyday stuff that in the end really got to him (or exacerbated the 'big' incidents).

Maybe its a case where the AFL couldn't have done anything more in those public cases? That's one of the big issues with this sort of thing. Victims cop it twice - once from their abuser, and once from the 'solution'. All the AFLs actions to prevent/address Sherman's behaviour also impacted on Wilkinson, who was the victim.

Can we all agree that he shouldn't have been racially abused in his workplace, by players or spectators, and that even casual abuse from team-mates/co-workers constitutes harassment, which forms the basis of his claim. We know that racial/sexual harassment has a really significant impact on people to the detriment of their careers - yet we expect somehow footballers can rise above it, despite that being a far more competitive and high-stakes environment than almost any other workplace

What concerns me more is the response from so many footy fans, who are attacking him, with almost none supporting or even attempting to empathise with him. His concerns are being ignored and written off by the public as a cash grab, which just seems totally disingenuous. You couldn't watch him speak last night and not believe that he is at least earnest in his perception that racial/sexual harassment impacted on his career.

I think there's natural scepticism that the "extreme" and "systematic" racism pervading the AFL and their clubs seems to only have affected one player at one club. Also when someone is seeking a financial resolution through the courts their version of events will be heavily prejudiced, even if much of it is true.

And who hasn't worked with someone who seems determined to see the worst of every situation and is a royal PITA to everyone else. From the outside he looks to be 'that guy'.

 

[Ron The Bear]

A spurious claim and it will be his word against everyone else. Ambulance chasers like Shine work on the basis that they will get a settlement and never go to court. Won't work in this case, the AFL, as the owners of the Suns would have settled if there was any truth.

The AFL are notorious for settling out of court, maybe that’s why Shine tried it on. And maybe he was offered a payout but is going for the jackpot.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

The AFL are notorious for settling out of court, maybe that’s why Shine tried it on. And maybe he was offered a payout but is going for the jackpot.

Nah, as I said, for all its faults the AFL is red hot on racism. A 13 year old girl got frog marched for using the term ape. It is zero tolerance and has been for some time.

 

[Chief]

Apart from having a respect policy (which it does), how is the entire AFL and all its clubs responsible for what a bunch of dickheads said in the rooms?

We're becoming a very litigious society in which the blame goes to whoever has the most assets to sue, not who is morally blameworthy.

From what I can see he claims his complaints were ignored.

That's where an employer is exposed to legal action. Not if it happens once and is shut down.

 

[btdg]

I think there's natural scepticism that the "extreme" and "systematic" racism pervading the AFL and their clubs seems to only have affected one player at one club. Also when someone is seeking a financial resolution through the courts their version of events will be heavily prejudiced, even if much of it is true.

And who hasn't worked with someone who seems determined to see the worst of every situation and is a royal PITA to everyone else. From the outside he looks to be 'that guy'.

I'd like to challenge what you call 'natural scepticism'. Is it really natural to doubt the claims of someone who is apparently a victim? That's only ever going to reinforce their victim mentality and the only way to progress this that I can see for the AFL is to listen to his claims and take them seriously.

This isn't something coming from one player. Heritier Lumumba made similar claims about another club, reinforced by Leon Davis. Adam Goodes has referred to similar. So it's at least 4 players. They way they've been publicly attacked for speaking out is also pretty ugly - I wouldn't be surprised if others were holding back based on what they've seen.

There's no doubt that his claims of 'extreme' racism are hyperbole - he hasn't been lynched or exposed to physical violence (that we know of), and aside from a couple of incidents, he's mostly referring to casual comments and a lack of systematic action. As I mentioned earlier, my take is that he feels that the AFL is far more interested in appearing 'tough' on overt racism externally, did very little to support him when he experienced it, and that he feels they have done nothing to address the on-going, casual stuff that is more frequent, and that creates a climate where more overt stuff appears. At the very least, the AFL needs to listen and maybe learn.

Let's not forget that, at the very least, he's experienced at least two instances of serious racial abuse in his time, and that he seems to genuinely believe that racial and sexual vilification impacted on his career. Calling him a PITA is unfair, and I reckon it reflects really badly on Australian society that we (collectively) are so quick to label anyone who speaks out about mistreatment in that way.

 

[FRUMPY]

I'd like to challenge what you call 'natural scepticism'. Is it really natural to doubt the claims of someone who is apparently a victim? That's only ever going to reinforce their victim mentality and the only way to progress this that I can see for the AFL is to listen to his claims and take them seriously.

This isn't something coming from one player. Heritier Lumumba made similar claims about another club, reinforced by Leon Davis. Adam Goodes has referred to similar. So it's at least 4 players. They way they've been publicly attacked for speaking out is also pretty ugly - I wouldn't be surprised if others were holding back based on what they've seen.

There's no doubt that his claims of 'extreme' racism are hyperbole - he hasn't been lynched or exposed to physical violence (that we know of), and aside from a couple of incidents, he's mostly referring to casual comments and a lack of systematic action. As I mentioned earlier, my take is that he feels that the AFL is far more interested in appearing 'tough' on overt racism externally, did very little to support him when he experienced it, and that he feels they have done nothing to address the on-going, casual stuff that is more frequent, and that creates a climate where more overt stuff appears. At the very least, the AFL needs to listen and maybe learn.

Let's not forget that, at the very least, he's experienced at least two instances of serious racial abuse in his time, and that he seems to genuinely believe that racial and sexual vilification impacted on his career. Calling him a PITA is unfair, and I reckon it reflects really badly on Australian society that we (collectively) are so quick to label anyone who speaks out about mistreatment in that way.

Couple of things:
- blaming these reasons as to why he no longer has an AFL career is a joke. He was given a chance and didn't grasp it. Happens to players all the time. But no, lets play the racist card for no longer being on an AFL list
- last one, I bet you he agrees to a settlement and takes the cash. That wont fix the issue that he 'feels so strongly' about but the payout will be the end of it and he will have got what he wanted, which is not the issue fixed but the money.

 

[btdg]

Couple of things:
- blaming these reasons as to why he no longer has an AFL career is a joke. He was given a chance and didn't grasp it. Happens to players all the time. But no, lets play the racist card for no longer being on an AFL list
- last one, I bet you he agrees to a settlement and takes the cash. That wont fix the issue that he 'feels so strongly' about but the payout will be the end of it and he will have got what he wanted, which is not the issue fixed but the money.

How do you know it wasn't the reason for his AFL career flaming out? These things hinge on a knife edge - maybe he lost motivation after being racially abused in his first senior game, grew increasingly upset with his on-going mistreatment, and then eventually walked away rather than continue in what he felt was an unsupportive environment. He was 21 when he left the AFL - still well and truly young enough to make a go of it elsewhere. Who are you to judge, from afar, how he was impacted by his treatment?

As I've said repeatedly, we need to listen to his concerns and then respond. It is astonishing how quick Australians are to deny and denigrate anyone who claims mistreatment on the basis of race, from afar.

 

[DemonZombie_001]

I think it is important that the AFL follow this through to court, and not settle behind the scenes.

I have no idea who is right or wrong here, but I am more concerned that the AFL fight this in court in order to make sure that the anti-discrimination practices they have put in place are robust enough to stand up in a court of law.

If not then they need to take the result on and improve the system.

 

[These 4 Walls]

With all of the requirements around football becoming a legitimate, full time profession we are almost at the point that the negatives outweigh the positives.

I am sure we will find out that there were comments that would pass as unsavoury but not serious in a group of friends but completely not okay in a workplace. There is nothing wrong with Joel's claims if that is the case, it is his workplace & his original career.

Ie: Kicking the footy with mates you can make comments about their appearance or joke about certain things, though do it in an office and it is undoubtedly different.

That coupled with the OH&S requirements in the rules of the game, the pressure on the players + the professionalism that full time training & strategising effects the spectacle and it does make it feel recently that it isn't a very fun world.

I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more than just 200cm+ second forwards walking away

 

[Tbonefreo]

Some of the African guys at work are really nice but most of them hate me because I am white. Is it racist that I don't care? Should my feelings be hurt even just a little bit, to, you know justify their existence.

They hate me cause I am white. Never gave me a chance or anything. I was never rude or impolite to them but this is the way it is.
He walked into GC expecting treasure the dumb prince

 

[Kabana]

you are very close to a thread ban, discuss the topic properly or go away

Were you picked on a lot in high school?

 

[Aeglos]

I take it his NFL career didn’t pan out then?

 

[TheSunGod]

The AFL are notorious for settling out of court, maybe that’s why Shine tried it on. And maybe he was offered a payout but is going for the jackpot.

The trifecta - racism, sexual harassment and religious vilification.

 

[Ron The Bear]

It is astonishing how quick Australians are to deny and denigrate anyone who claims mistreatment on the basis of race, from afar.

Yes I was quick to judge as I already had an opinion formed years ago. It’s interesting that his lawyer used the term “grandstander” without quoting anybody specific...

 

[Gralin]

Were you picked on a lot in high school?

Yes

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Casual racism generally involves stereotypes based on race, ethnicity or religion. The people doing it generally don't see their race/ethnicity/religion as superior, and aren't overtly trying to be racist, but it could involve making 'friendly' jokes at people's expense, the use of stereotypes in conversation, or even sub-conscious gestures and body language.

Examples off the top of my head (trying to draw from recent/prominent ones):
- dressing in blackface for a party
- making jokes about stereotypes, even positive ones
- crossing the street to avoid someone of a different background who 'looks a bit dodgy'
- asking someone who isn't white 'Where is your family from?'

In most cases, the person responsible isn't trying to degrade or cause offence, but does so unintentionally. Could also be the sort of thing that some might lable 'PC gone mad'. But these things do have an impact on making others feel uncomfortable, isolated, different, and excluded - which can really impact on them.

If you want to see an example of real racism go have a look at some of the laws in Malaysia

 

[btdg]

If you want to see an example of real racism go have a look at some of the laws in Malaysia

Right, so if something isn't the worst example of its kind anywhere in the world it isn't a 'real' problem

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Right, so if something isn't the worst example of its kind anywhere in the world it isn't a 'real' problem

Go and check out their laws, yes that's right, we're not talking about 'casual racism', they have actually legalized racism over there.

The reality is that there is some form of racism all over the world. Yes it exists in Australia, I've seen it directed at my wife and kids. Sure it's a problem, but everything is relative, the issues that we face here is insignificant compared to other countries like Malaysia where the Government is blatantly racist.

If you have a problem with any of that then deal with it, I don't care if you're offended champ

 

[btdg]

Go and check out their laws, yes that's right, we're not talking about 'casual racism', they have actually legalized racism over there.

The reality is that there is some form of racism all over the world. Yes it exists in Australia, I've seen it directed at my wife and kids. Sure it's a problem, but everything is relative, the issues that we face here is insignificant compared to other countries like Malaysia where the Government is blatantly racist.

If you have a problem with any of that then deal with it, I don't care if you're offended champ

What are you even on about? I'm not offended in the slightest.

Racial vilification and sexual harassment is illegal in Australia, and is a particular issue in the workplace. That's what this whole thread is about, incidentally. A former footballer taking the afl to court because of what he perceives to be institutionalised racism.

What happens in Malaysia is utterly irrelevant. It might well be awful. That sucks. So start a thread on it on the SRP board.

Malaysia doesn't have any bearing on this at all

And let's be clear - I don't face any issues with racism. I'm an Anglo Saxon male - I haven't had a day in my life where I've experienced anything like this (and No, having a random bloke on the street yell slurs at you is nothing like the same thing).

But don't tell people affected by a serious problem that it doesn't matter because others have it worse. You wouldn't do that in any aspect of your life and using it to defend racist behaviour is pathetic

 

[Kabana]

Yes

It shows bro.

My advice would be to leave the past in the past, and not act out by being so heavy handed on people posting on an internet forum about footy. I mean, it's almost like you take this seriously.