Analysis Franklin + Academy = Sydney Swans

[WhippingCupcakes]

I get tired of the perception that our whole team is full of free top end talent from the academy, we got buddy up there and that's the only reason we've stayed competitive for so long. And for some reason we're not allowed to get Heeney and Mills because we've appeared in grand finals. Apparently timing and ladder position matters when you get academy/father-son picks.

Anyway after reading the Geelong board and they were having the usual cry after we beat them i decided to have a look at the team we put out on the field. Where they were in draft, where they were drafted from and how many academy/NSW players were actually playing. A lot of you probably know this but it was interesting nonetheless.

B
Nick Smith - pick 15, rookie draft 2007 (Oakleigh Chargers TAC)
Heath Grundy - pick 42, rookie draft 2004 (SANFL - Norwood)
Jarrad McVeigh - pick 5, 2002 (NSW/ACT Rams)

HB
Dane Rampe - pick 37, rookie draft 2013 (Williamstown VFL, grew up in sydney)
Lewis Melican - pick 52, rookie draft 2014 (Geelong Falcons TAC)
Jake Lloyd - pick 16, 2012 rookie draft (North Ballarat Rebels VFL)

C
Gary Rohan - pick 6, 2009 (Geelong Falcons)
Dan Hannebery - pick 30, 2008 (Oakleigh Chargers)
Zak Jones - pick 15, 2013 (Dandenong Stringrays)

HF
Isaac Heeney - pick 18 (pick 2), 2014 (Sydney Swans Academy)
Lance Franklin - traded from Hawthorn (pick 5)
George Hewett - pick 32, 2013 (North Adelaide (SA))

F
Sam Reid - pick 38, 2009 (Murray Bushranger)
Callum Sinclair - traded from West Coast (rookie draft)
Tom Papley - pick 14, rookie draft 2015 (Gippsland Power)

FOL
Kurt Tippett - traded from Adelaide (pick 32)
Luke Parker - pick 40, 2010 - round 2 (Dandenong Stingrays)
Kieren Jack - pick 57, rookie draft 2005 (NSW/ACT U18)

I/C
Will Hayward - pick 21, 2016 (North Adelaide (SANFL))
Callum Mills - pick 3, 2015 (North Shore Junior Football Club/Sydney Swans Academy)
Dean Towers - pick 22, 2012 (North Ballarat VFL)
Nic Newman - pick 35, rookie draft 2014 (Frankston Dolphins (VFL))

8 rookie draft players (plus Callum Sinclair)
7 first round (plus Franklin)
3 second round (plus Tippet)
1 third round

4 drafted from Academy/NSW zone
12 drafted from VIC
3 drafted from SA

Former Academy members on the senior list:
Brandon Jack pick 58, rookie draft 2012
Sam Naismith pick 58, rookie draft 2012
Dan Robinson pick 51, rookie draft 2012
Isaac Heeney
Jordan Foote pick 76, rookie draft 2014
Callum Mills

(http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/academy)

 

[Wayne Swan]

You can't win with the idiots who support other teams, they are generally of such low intelligence that they sound much like Eddie Maguire!

I researched this a few weeks back and we have far, far more rookies in best 22 than any other side, plus other later pick guns. Full credit to the recruiters who have turned things around after a succession of first pick busts.

But as for getting through to the greater populous, don't even bother.

 

[BloodySwan]

We've got to have one of the best recruiting teams around. Our back 6 at times is made entirely out of rookie picks. To repeat, the strongest defense in the AFL is made entirely out of rookie selections.

Our midfield is mostly made from second round picks and trades. Any club could have gotten the likes of Kennedy, Hanners & Parker but were all overlooked for one reason or another.

Any belief that the Swans are based off of the academy + Buddy is unfounded.

 

[Ticky009]

Great post WhippingCupcakes. A suggestion in regard to the academy picks outside of Heeney/Mills. Perhaps add to your main post when they were picked
Naismith was selected at #56 in the rookie draft.
Robinson NSW scholarship #51 2013 rookie draft
B Jack #58 2013 rookie draft
J Foote #76 2015 rookie draft

It highlights that none of these players were bid on by other clubs or even us in the main draft.

 

[db swannie]

I get tired of the perception that our whole team is full of free top end talent from the academy, we got buddy up there and that's the only reason we've stayed competitive for so long. And for some reason we're not allowed to get Heeney and Mills because we've appeared in grand finals. Apparently timing and ladder position matters when you get academy/father-son picks.

Anyway after reading the Geelong board and they were having the usual cry after we beat them i decided to have a look at the team we put out on the field. Where they were in draft, where they were drafted from and how many academy/NSW players were actually playing. A lot of you probably know this but it was interesting nonetheless.

B
Nick Smith - pick 15, rookie draft 2007 (Oakleigh Chargers TAC)
Heath Grundy - pick 42, rookie draft 2004 (SANFL - Norwood)
Jarrad McVeigh - pick 5, 2002 (NSW/ACT Rams)

HB
Dane Rampe - pick 37, rookie draft 2013 (Williamstown VFL, grew up in sydney)
Lewis Melican - pick 52, rookie draft 2014 (Geelong Falcons TAC)
Jake Lloyd - pick 16, 2012 rookie draft (North Ballarat Rebels VFL)

C
Gary Rohan - pick 6, 2009 (Geelong Falcons)
Dan Hannebery - pick 30, 2008 (Oakleigh Chargers)
Zak Jones - pick 15, 2013 (Dandenong Stringrays)

HF
Isaac Heeney - pick 18 (pick 2), 2014 (Sydney Swans Academy)
Lance Franklin - traded from Hawthorn (pick 5)
George Hewett - pick 32, 2013 (North Adelaide (SA))

F
Sam Reid - pick 38, 2009 (Murray Bushranger)
Callum Sinclair - traded from West Coast (rookie draft)
Tom Papley - pick 14, rookie draft 2015 (Gippsland Power)

FOL
Kurt Tippett - traded from Adelaide (pick 32)
Luke Parker - pick 40, 2010 - round 2 (Dandenong Stingrays)
Kieren Jack - pick 57, rookie draft 2005 (NSW/ACT U18)

I/C
Will Hayward - pick 21, 2016 (North Adelaide (SANFL))
Callum Mills - pick 3, 2015 (North Shore Junior Football Club/Sydney Swans Academy)
Dean Towers - pick 22, 2012 (North Ballarat VFL)
Nic Newman - pick 35, rookie draft 2014 (Frankston Dolphins (VFL))

8 rookie draft players (plus Callum Sinclair)
7 first round (plus Franklin)
3 second round (plus Tippet)
1 third round

4 drafted from Academy/NSW zone
12 drafted from VIC
3 drafted from SA

Former Academy members on the senior list: Brandon Jack; Sam Naismith; Dan Robinson; Isaac Heeney; Jordan Foote and Callum Mills

I listed our rookies to a Hawforn whinging flog on the Bay a few weeks back and he left the thread after that.

It's impressive.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Great post WhippingCupcakes. A suggestion in regard to the academy picks outside of Heeney/Mills. Perhaps add to your main post when they were picked
Naismith was selected at #56 in the rookie draft.
Robinson NSW scholarship #51 2013 rookie draft
B Jack #58 2013 rookie draft
J Foote #76 2015 rookie draft

It highlights that none of these players were bid on by other clubs or even us in the main draft.

To be fair Tickster 1 Heeney/Mills outweighs pretty much every other academy pick we've made combined.... I'd be filthy if I saw another club given access to two elite rookies straight after drawing the leagues best fwd, poaching another kpp & playing multipe finals.

The most frustrating bit would be that it's all legit & more than likely a situation my own club missed the boat on by not thinking ahead of the curve & having ridiculous management & foresight.... I'd be trying to find any excuse I could to reason as to why they got to do it & my club "couldn't". Anything at all. Condirmation bias I think it's called.

 

[Ticky009]

To be fair Tickster 1 Heeney/Mills outweighs pretty much every other academy pick we've made combined.... I'd be filthy if I saw another club given access to two elite rookies straight after drawing the leagues best fwd, poaching another kpp & playing multipe finals.

The most frustrating bit would be that it's all legit & more than likely a situation my own club missed the boat on by not thinking ahead of the curve & having ridiculous management & foresight.... I'd be trying to find any excuse I could to reason as to why they got to do it & my club "couldn't". Anything at all. Condirmation bias I think it's called.

Yet the perception is we get a academy top #10 player every year. Like it's some production line.
It's simply not the case. It's that cliche I get ticked off at.
Academy started in 2010. In 7 years we've had 2 players picked in the main draft by Swans

 

[SilentHunter_]

Classic case of haters going to hate.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Yet the perception is we get a academy top #10 player every year. Like it's some production line.
It's simply not the case. It's that cliche I get ticked off at.
Academy started in 2010. In 7 years we've had 2 players picked in the main draft by Swans

Yeah completely agree.

It's a case of other supporters needing to find a reason why we've been so good and why their club hasn't been as good. They need "facts" that can "prove" to themselves that their club isn't just sh*tter but we've actually had some kind of unfair advantage over theirs which has caused our success and constant finals appearances the last decade or so.

I can see where a lot of them feel aggrieved in so far as the media saturation of the actual advantages we have received in the past (all voted for and agreed by the other clubs & completely legit etc) reported in a negative light and as the reasoning completely ignoring all the good work that contributed to our success more-so than a few "advantages".

Our academy or an allowance didn't make us pick ROK. Or Goodes. Or Hanners.

It wasn't the reason we chose Papley. Or the reason we decided to take a punt on Shaw. Or Teddy. Or Grundy. Or Marty Mattner.

It certainly wasn't the reason for us deciding to stick with the "ugly ducklings" footy that bought us our first flag in so long.

If we used our "advantages" as they were portrayed then we would have had the rockstar midfield like the Weagles had. Or the ridiculous amount of clubs other top talent (Look at where Gibson, Lake & co finished their respective previous club B&Fs.... Then look at Mummy or JPK not gettign games).

Anyway.... You got me rolling. Sorry all.

/rant/

 

[scaryness]

Heeney (54/57) in 3 seasons
Mills (42/1) in 2 seasons
------------------------------
B Jack (28/16) in 5 seasons
Naismith (26/3) in 5 seasons
Robinson (16/5) in 5 seasons
Foote (6/1) in 3 seasons
Hiscox (1/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Davis (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Perris (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2015

For every gun there are 3.5 okay to list clogging players.

Perris being the .5 because he could have been very good from what I recall.

 

[Tuco]

Heeney (54/57) in 3 seasons
Mills (42/1) in 2 seasons
------------------------------
B Jack (28/16) in 5 seasons
Naismith (26/3) in 5 seasons
Robinson (16/5) in 5 seasons
Foote (6/1) in 3 seasons
Hiscox (1/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Davis (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Perris (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2015

For every gun there are 3.5 okay to list clogging players.

Perris being the .5 because he could have been very good from what I recall.

I read once that the avg AFL career only lasts 3 years. I wonder if that's atill the case?

 

[caesar88]

No stat reads as effectively as a flag.

Let's hope we bring it home this year. If we do something tells me none of us will care much about what the VFL alumni say about the club

 

[WhippingCupcakes]

Yet the perception is we get a academy top #10 player every year. Like it's some production line.
It's simply not the case. It's that cliche I get ticked off at.
Academy started in 2010. In 7 years we've had 2 players picked in the main draft by Swans

Yeah completely agree.

It's a case of other supporters needing to find a reason why we've been so good and why their club hasn't been as good. They need "facts" that can "prove" to themselves that their club isn't just sh*tter but we've actually had some kind of unfair advantage over theirs which has caused our success and constant finals appearances the last decade or so.

I can see where a lot of them feel aggrieved in so far as the media saturation of the actual advantages we have received in the past (all voted for and agreed by the other clubs & completely legit etc) reported in a negative light and as the reasoning completely ignoring all the good work that contributed to our success more-so than a few "advantages".

Our academy or an allowance didn't make us pick ROK. Or Goodes. Or Hanners.

It wasn't the reason we chose Papley. Or the reason we decided to take a punt on Shaw. Or Teddy. Or Grundy. Or Marty Mattner.

It certainly wasn't the reason for us deciding to stick with the "ugly ducklings" footy that bought us our first flag in so long.

If we used our "advantages" as they were portrayed then we would have had the rockstar midfield like the Weagles had. Or the ridiculous amount of clubs other top talent (Look at where Gibson, Lake & co finished their respective previous club B&Fs.... Then look at Mummy or JPK not gettign games).

Anyway.... You got me rolling. Sorry all.

/rant/

Sums up my feelings. The focus on the academy picks disregards all the great work the recruiting staff have done. The amount of rookie drafted players we have is very impressive as db swannie said.

I guess if you're Richmond or Melbourne its hard to reconcile our success with the amount of wasted first rounds picks they've had. Plus i've come to the conclusion the draft is overrated. If your club is run poorly from the top down to the bottom you can squander any talent. When a player arrives at a club, no matter how talented, there is still a long before they become as A grader.

I found it strange Hawthorn didn't nearly enough negative attention with all the players they were pulling into the club every year. Half the 3 peat team weren't drafted by them. But using all the resources to them and it payed off.

 

[SSwans2011]

Heeney (54/57) in 3 seasons
Mills (42/1) in 2 seasons
------------------------------
B Jack (28/16) in 5 seasons
Naismith (26/3) in 5 seasons
Robinson (16/5) in 5 seasons
Foote (6/1) in 3 seasons
Hiscox (1/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Davis (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Perris (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2015

For every gun there are 3.5 okay to list clogging players.

Perris being the .5 because he could have been very good from what I recall.

I honestly thought Perris was going to be a gun too.

 

[sataris]

Heeney (54/57) in 3 seasons
Mills (42/1) in 2 seasons
------------------------------
B Jack (28/16) in 5 seasons
Naismith (26/3) in 5 seasons
Robinson (16/5) in 5 seasons
Foote (6/1) in 3 seasons
Hiscox (1/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Davis (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2016
Perris (0/0) in 2 seasons, delisted 2015

For every gun there are 3.5 okay to list clogging players.

Perris being the .5 because he could have been very good from what I recall.

Probably being daft but what are the numbers?

 

[scaryness]

Probably being daft but what are the numbers?

Games/goals

 

[sataris]

Games/goals

Oh snap. Thought it was games/seasons

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[sataris]

Oh snap. Thought it was games/seasons

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Towers (45/23) in 4 seasons

 

[YorshireSwan]

To be fair Tickster 1 Heeney/Mills outweighs pretty much every other academy pick we've made combined.... I'd be filthy if I saw another club given access to two elite rookies straight after drawing the leagues best fwd, poaching another kpp & playing multipe finals.

The most frustrating bit would be that it's all legit & more than likely a situation my own club missed the boat on by not thinking ahead of the curve & having ridiculous management & foresight.... I'd be trying to find any excuse I could to reason as to why they got to do it & my club "couldn't". Anything at all. Condirmation bias I think it's called.

Good measured post, to me its no different to posters on this board believing that Collingwood get special treatment by only having to leave Melbourne once or twice a year or the Hawks getting to play GF's with a significant home ground advantage - I think our club leads all others because we focus on ourselves and what we can control and not worry about others and what so called perceived advantages they have.

 

[Kirkswan]

Good measured post, to me its no different to posters on this board believing that Collingwood get special treatment by only having to leave Melbourne once or twice a year or the Hawks getting to play GF's with a significant home ground advantage - I think our club leads all others because we focus on ourselves and what we can control and not worry about others and what so called perceived advantages they have.

Excellent post!