Fremantles lack of scoring power

[salim malik]

I agree with this completely, but, the way their game plan holds up won't cut it against Hawthorn or West Coast. Both sides have a game plan that counters the slower Fremantle defensive approach. 'Clarko's cluster and the West Coast Web' is simply a rolling style from wing to wing that provides coverage against a slow style approach and forces the opposition to kick to the boundary. When this occurs, the hawks win a stoppage through their A grade midfield and the Eagles dominate through A grade rucks and hard running mids.

Now, if they don't go to the boundary they chip it about through the ground but eventually turn it over due to pressure from their opposition (I am talking about Hawthorn and West Coast here).

Kicking a low winning score is fine, and certainly no knocks on that, but your opponent needs to not be Hawthorn or West Coast!

The last five games Freo is in front of WC for wins and scoring is equal .Top of the pops is the Kangaroos who have had an easy run for those five games.

 

[1990crow]

Freo are a good side. They're just not best side. Hawks are. And WC are probably second best. Freo third. Nothing to sneeze at, just won't be enough to win the flag.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Don't all teams struggle against high calibre attacking teams? For some reason people like to think that Ross Lyon coached teams are the only ones.

The point is Lyon's gameplan is better suited to regular season games and you under perform relative to your regular season standing in finals. It's not that difficult to grasp...then again maybe it is for Rossy or he would have tweaked it by now.

 

[kane249]

It's a hard position to fill if you aren't a 'destination club' and don't have high draft picks.

The last part is a cop out, you've continually over looked talls in favour of more mids / flankers.

Freo banked on stacking their mids and getting a tall via trade / free agency, it hasn't paid off.

 

[PunkyHawkster]

They're on top of the ladder, they must be doing something right.

I move to replace the ladder with the squiggle. Less deception about relative ability.

 

[Spoken4]

Freo are a good side. They're just not best side. Hawks are. And WC are probably second best. Freo third. Nothing to sneeze at, just won't be enough to win the flag.

In my opinion, I'd say Fremantle is the second best side over the course of the year. They had an off game against West Coast last week who clearly had more to play for than Fremantle. In any event, history is littered with seasons were the second or even the third best team won the flag.

 

[Spoken4]

I move to replace the ladder with the squiggle. Less deception about relative ability.

That's the silliest comment I've read on BF in a long time. Wouldn't be too many intelligent people that would disagree with the position that winning more games than all the other teams actually says the most about "relative ability".

 

[Scotland]

2 of the last 3 Grand Finals have been won by teams that scored less than 100 points.

Footy is a two-way game. Defence and attack. This 100 point furphy is being pedalled by people who have run out of things to talk about.

You can absolutely win games of footy without scoring 100 points, we've done it 4 times this year.

Going in to a finals series against the likes of Hawthorn, West Coast, Western Bulldogs and Sydney do you want to be relying on needing to keep each team to 10 or 11 goals in order to win?

 

[Corkintheocean]

You can absolutely win games of footy without scoring 100 points, we've done it 4 times this year.

Going in to a finals series against the likes of Hawthorn, West Coast, Western Bulldogs and Sydney do you want to be relying on needing to keep each team to 10 or 11 goals in order to win?

If they are incapable of recognising it may be a problem after this many years with Lyon at the helm it's probably best to leave them in blissful ignorance.

 

[Spoken4]

You can absolutely win games of footy without scoring 100 points, we've done it 4 times this year.

Going in to a finals series against the likes of Hawthorn, West Coast, Western Bulldogs and Sydney do you want to be relying on needing to keep each team to 10 or 11 goals in order to win?

No, but as I've already stated in this thread, Freo has won 100% of games where it scores 12 goals or more. 46 out of the past 46 games. That's a significant statistic. What can be derived from that is if Fremantle can gets its offensive game going and crack this mark, it will consistently hold opponents to low scores.

 

[Spoken4]

If they are incapable of recognising it may be a problem after this many years with Lyon at the helm it's probably best to leave them in blissful ignorance.

So I'm guessing you haven't heard Lyon for the past 2 years saying that Fremantle need to find another 2 goals a game?

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

The last five games Freo is in front of WC for wins and scoring is equal .Top of the pops is the Kangaroos who have had an easy run for those five games.

4 of those wins though, west coast were outside the top 8 (13th and 9th) and freo made the grand final one of those years, and came 4th the year after, the stat is useless given how differently west coast rank offensively and defensively this year, to those years.

 

[Corkintheocean]

So I'm guessing you haven't heard Lyon for the past 2 years saying that Fremantle need to find another 2 goals a game?

Isn't Lyon the head coach? Isn't it his job to fins the two goals? Is it not a concern that the head coach is scratching round for two years to find two goals?

 

[Scotland]

If they are incapable of recognising it may be a problem after this many years with Lyon at the helm it's probably best to leave them in blissful ignorance.

It's not that big a problem - I mean they're top of the ladder and have beaten 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th. They're going OK.

I just think they are too reliant on keeping their opponents to low scores that if the game becomes higher scoring they don't have a plan B.

 

[Corkintheocean]

It's not that big a problem - I mean they're top of the ladder and have beaten 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th. They're going OK.

I just think they are too reliant on keeping their opponents to low scores that if the game becomes higher scoring they don't have a plan B.

I agree. I just think the game plan severely hampers their ability to win 3 finals in a row.

 

[kane249]

Freo has a 100% win rate where they score more than 12 goals (46 out of 46 games).

Over what period? Since Ross took over? There's been a few games in that period where you've been at around the 11-12 goal mark and lost. Adding 1-2 more goals wouldn't break the time space continuum and magically change them into wins either.

You're putting a bit too much faith in this stat.

 

[awaremind]

I think the game plan is not to blame, as others have stated a bit of luck for milnevorvaccurate kicking in 2013 andvhevcould have two flags. However I would like to see more focus on good kicking in general play, and we should have used our high draft picks on say young McGovern and Jack darling years ago. But that ship has sailed. Still it will be interesting to see ho we go with mcpharlin Johnson and Dawson all in the side at once, that means one. Of those players or Alex pearce can stay at key forward role.

 

[kane249]

If you had gone with McGovern with a high pick you would have done better than every club in the AFL including us who got him with a rookie pick.

He was a medium height, fat, out of shape country kid when we drafted him. We got lucky he was able to lose some of the puppy fat (still looks like a country footballer) and grew about 10cm as well.

 

[Scotland]

No, but as I've already stated in this thread, Freo has won 100% of games where it scores 12 goals or more. 46 out of the past 46 games. That's a significant statistic. What can be derived from that is if Fremantle can gets its offensive game going and crack this mark, it will consistently hold opponents to low scores.

I'm not sure you're agreeing with me or arguing with me...?

Scoring 11 goals or less:

2015 - 4W 3L
2014 - 1W 8L
2013 - 3W 1D 6L

Overall: 8W 1D 17L

2014 SF 11.17 LOSS
2014 QF 10.9 LOSS
2013 GF 8.14 LOSS
2013 PF 14.15 WIN
2013 QF 12.15 WIN
2012 SF 11.5 LOSS
2012 EF 14.12 WIN

Your 12+ rule holds true, but in 4/7 finals you haven't kicked 12 goals and you've lost all of them. That's the concern. Winning every game where you kick 12 goals is great, but if you don't kick 12 goals in more than half of your finals....

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

No, but as I've already stated in this thread, Freo has won 100% of games where it scores 12 goals or more. 46 out of the past 46 games. That's a significant statistic. What can be derived from that is if Fremantle can gets its offensive game going and crack this mark, it will consistently hold opponents to low scores.

That may be true, but it isn't a given that if freo score 12 goals they are going to win, I think the stat looks better on paper than it really is. Fremantle scored 11 goals last weekend, and were down by 4 goals with about a minute to go, and walters took a mark inside the centre square towards fremantle's 50, had a few options he could have gone to in the middle, around the 50 arc, but chose to bomb it inside 50 to nobody but 2 eagles. Now had he kicked it to a free man near the 50m arc, and they had scored, fremantle would have very easily scored 12 goals and still would've lost. It would be interesting to see the list of sides fremantle have scored 12 goals against for those 46 games, I have a feeling it may just show that Fremantle struggle to bring up big scores against more quality opposition.

 

[BusinessMan]

The point is Lyon's gameplan is better suited to regular season games and you under perform relative to your regular season standing in finals. It's not that difficult to grasp...then again maybe it is for Rossy or he would have tweaked it by now.

Another baseless assumption.

Lyons finals record:
08' finished 4th in regular season & finals
09' finished 1st in regular season & 2nd in finals
10' finished 3rd in regular season & 2nd in finals
11' finished 6th in regular season & 7th in finals
12' finished 7th in regular season & 6th in finals
13' finished 3rd in regular season & 2nd in finals
14' finished 4th in regular season & 6th in finals

So in all he exceeds ladder position in finals 3 times and finishes in a worse position 3 times, whilst maintaing the same position once.

 

[Spoken4]

Isn't Lyon the head coach? Isn't it his job to fins the two goals? Is it not a concern that the head coach is scratching round for two years to find two goals?

He's been looking. But someone keeps hiding them.

 

[Spoken4]

I'm not sure you're agreeing with me or arguing with me...?

Scoring 11 goals or less:

2015 - 4W 3L
2014 - 1W 8L
2013 - 3W 1D 6L

Overall: 8W 1D 17L

2014 SF 11.17 LOSS
2014 QF 10.9 LOSS
2013 GF 8.14 LOSS
2013 PF 14.15 WIN
2013 QF 12.15 WIN
2012 SF 11.5 LOSS
2012 EF 14.12 WIN

Your 12+ rule holds true, but in 4/7 finals you haven't kicked 12 goals and you've lost all of them. That's the concern. Winning every game where you kick 12 goals is great, but if you don't kick 12 goals in more than half of your finals....

I was agreeing with you.

 

[Spoken4]

Over what period? Since Ross took over? There's been a few games in that period where you've been at around the 11-12 goal mark and lost. Adding 1-2 more goals wouldn't break the time space continuum and magically change them into wins either.

You're putting a bit too much faith in this stat.

From the beginning of the streak Rd 21 2012.

Freo has won an additional game (fortnight ago against St Kilda) where they kicked +12 goals.

 

[kane249]

From the beginning of the streak Rd 21 2012.

Freo has won an additional game (fortnight ago against St Kilda) where they kicked +12 goals.

Ok, in that time Freo have had the following 11 goal games

2012 SF Vs Adelaide, lost by 10 @ Adelaide Oval
2013 R4 Vs Hawks, lost by 42 @ York Park
2014 R3 Vs Hawks, lost by 58 @ MCG
2014 R5 Vs Sydney, lost by 17 @ SCG
2014 R8 Vs Port, lost by 18 @ Adelaide Oval
2014 R20 Vs Geelong, lost by 2 @ Kardinya Park
2014 SF Vs Port, lost by 22 @ Subiaco Oval
2015 R20 Vs West Coast, lost by 24 @ Subiaco Oval

If you want to break it down further, games where you kicked 10 and lost
2014 SF Vs Sydney, lost by 24 @ Stadium Aust
2015 R10 Vs Richmond, lost by 27 @ Subiaco Oval

Only 1 of those games the result would have changed had Freo gotten to the 'safe zone' of 12 goals. On paper winning 100% of your games when you get to 12 goals looks impressive, but if you dig a little deeper there were numerous times you just missed it, and it still wouldn't have changed the result if you had gotten to the magical 12 mark.