'system'That’s how the system is designed to workhow do people not understand and accept this
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Roast Full house clean required
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- May 10, 2017
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Yep, what if we had done that at the end of our disappointing 2016 season? And looking at Ross for example people now singing his praises when earlier in the year they were calling for him to be traded/de-listed, go figure.
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- Sep 24, 2017
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And just beat the team sitting on top and loooked pretty good doing it.
Just saying
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_RT_
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For those of you suggesting that we trade away a lot of our older blokes or retire off some who are maybe going on a year longer than you believe they should go, are you going to be happy when we're a bottom 4 side winning 3-6 games a season, while we throw the kids to the wolves?
Yesterday I posted a list of 32 players aged 27 or younger currently on our list, with that number to change a little with delistings/trades/drafting at the end of the season. Above that list we have the following elder statesmen:
Riewoldt - likely to retire
Tarrant - retired
Cotchin - likely to retire
Martin - 1 year left on deal
Grimes - signed 1 year deal
Pickett - likely 1 year deal
Prestia - 1 year left on deal
Lynch - 2 years left
Broad - 2 years left
McIntosh - to be signed/has met criteria for new deal
Vlastuin - signed for 3 years
Nankervis - 1 more year left.
There is no need to have a fire sale and to simply rid ourselves of the experience players who can provide on field and off field leadership for the next generation coming through.
This off season we'll lose Riewoldt Cotchin Tarrant Castagna from the experienced players, plus the likely departures of young players in Dow & Nyoun, with more youth coming in. The last thing we need is getting rid of more experience, it will happen naturally over the next 2-3 seasons as those listed above will gradually depart.
With Jack and Trent departing this year there will be 2 spots opening up in the 22 of which Lynch will fill one, while Gibcus will return to the back 6 possibly replacing Grimes in the side as we transition to that younger group. You'd also expect one of Ryan Bauer Bradtke to put their hands up to support Lynch up forward.
With Cotchin departing from the forward/midfield mix there will be a spot opening up there ideally Sonsie gets over the 2nd year blues and can slot into the mix, while on the wings we could see Ross be joined by the likes of Banks Ralphsmith Clarke to add some more speed and outside skill as we transition away from the style that saw us simply move the ball forward by any means possible.
While it seems like there is a lot of frustrated fans who are looking for a quick turnaround, I'm prepared for a bit of a journey that may take a year or 2 to get us back into the mix for finals/premiership contention. The best part of getting to celebrate any success that comes is being there for the start of the journey. Over the next couple of months that journey will begin in earnest with a new coach being appointed.
Yesterday I posted a list of 32 players aged 27 or younger currently on our list, with that number to change a little with delistings/trades/drafting at the end of the season. Above that list we have the following elder statesmen:
Riewoldt - likely to retire
Tarrant - retired
Cotchin - likely to retire
Martin - 1 year left on deal
Grimes - signed 1 year deal
Pickett - likely 1 year deal
Prestia - 1 year left on deal
Lynch - 2 years left
Broad - 2 years left
McIntosh - to be signed/has met criteria for new deal
Vlastuin - signed for 3 years
Nankervis - 1 more year left.
There is no need to have a fire sale and to simply rid ourselves of the experience players who can provide on field and off field leadership for the next generation coming through.
This off season we'll lose Riewoldt Cotchin Tarrant Castagna from the experienced players, plus the likely departures of young players in Dow & Nyoun, with more youth coming in. The last thing we need is getting rid of more experience, it will happen naturally over the next 2-3 seasons as those listed above will gradually depart.
With Jack and Trent departing this year there will be 2 spots opening up in the 22 of which Lynch will fill one, while Gibcus will return to the back 6 possibly replacing Grimes in the side as we transition to that younger group. You'd also expect one of Ryan Bauer Bradtke to put their hands up to support Lynch up forward.
With Cotchin departing from the forward/midfield mix there will be a spot opening up there ideally Sonsie gets over the 2nd year blues and can slot into the mix, while on the wings we could see Ross be joined by the likes of Banks Ralphsmith Clarke to add some more speed and outside skill as we transition away from the style that saw us simply move the ball forward by any means possible.
While it seems like there is a lot of frustrated fans who are looking for a quick turnaround, I'm prepared for a bit of a journey that may take a year or 2 to get us back into the mix for finals/premiership contention. The best part of getting to celebrate any success that comes is being there for the start of the journey. Over the next couple of months that journey will begin in earnest with a new coach being appointed.
I am just going to point out that you don;t have a blanket 5% chance of winning the flag. Its not a lottery. You build flags. Each teams odd's are dictated by the condition of the club - which is a result of the recruiters, players, match committee etc etc etc.
Its the job of those who we critique that dictate's "the odds" - to say its "5%" each year is ridiculous. You can't just cut the "chance" pie up into 18 slices and say "there are your odds". Did West Coast have a 5% chance of winning it this
Mini's record of 6-4 is currently 6 wins against 18th,16th, 15th,10th,8th 6th with a average winning margin of about 2 goals.
We have lost to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th with an average losing margin of 7 goals. He has done this while playing one of the oldest list in the entire competition.
His results are not that great when you really look at them. He has done using a system that was already in place, required very little "teething time" & has next to no scope of expected growth, as the players pushing that style the most are still the older players,. The young guys do not appear to naturally fit the style we play.
Yes. Because i've seen that if you are tough and work through that process, you can win flags/
The process of "sitting through bad losses" has always been more tolerable if you have elite young talent growing in that garden of turds. The best thing we can do next year is be bottom 3 and nail that pick & then the process is on. Should have been started this year, but - it wont. Doesn;t change what we need, just means we are a year behind
_RT_
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When Hardwick began his process back in 2010, we didn't just go with youth, we had experienced players on the list to provide leadership for the kids. If you just go with kids we will quickly find ourselves uncompetitive and in a circle of we need more top end talent, so lets bottom out again and take another shot at the top end of the draft.
We've got the foundation of a list in place as I pointed out yesterday, we take our lumps at the draft this year and see where the list goes under a new coach and hopefully a new game plan and continue the process that we started in 2021, which would have taken into account a couple of down years as we transitioned from the premiership heroes to the next generation.
Simple for us we go 2 ways move on build for the future and say thankyou very much our aging players and put a few names on the trade table or do it half hearted and it will put us backwards years. This includes football department who needs to get back to the levels of our flag years because it's gone downhill.
That there is the biggest mistake we have made of recent times. Just mind boggling
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- Apr 30, 2016
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Any complete imbecile work experience kid who spent $2 on a Herald sun could've drafted Oscar Allen and Jacob Van Rooyen just by taking the best KPF still available at our designated pick. Riewoldt could've gone out last year on a high. Lynch and Allen would be more formidable than any other forward combo and Van Rooyen would be blitzing in the Magoo's keeping the pressure on the other 2 getting games when their form drops or injuries or rests. If he wanted to go elsewhere clubs would have to cough up pick 1 or 2 X later first rounders.
The most crucial position that can win games we've completely neglected and only used a couple of late 1st rounders investing since Riewoldt was drafted back in the mid 2000's. Absolute mismanagement at best complete cluster **** more accurate. Watching Bradtke have shots yesterday I think he'll be lucky to play more than 20 ordinary senior games
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- Nov 28, 2017
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I think he is a better option than Soldo as a pinch hitting ruck but at the same time he just keeps getting dropped so obviously the faith is not there.
He has also been there for a long time at the club for someone that has only played 25 games.
- Nov 28, 2017
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I don't think he is good enough, I don't think he ever has been good enough.
I am not sure why you are pointing that out as we have no option but to do it how you have described. We have no draft picks & appear to have not many elite high quality kids, they seem to be moderate to good prospects, at best atm.
I don't think we have the foundations of a great future list at all tbh. No Elite talent under the age of 23 at all. We wouldn't have a single player likely to make the U23 All Australian team.
People hate to see this but the reality is this was how we built to our 2017 flag under Dimma. This is each season after he took over recruiting.
2009 - Dustin Martin, Ben Griffiths, David Astbury, Matt Dea, Troy Taylor, Jeromey Webberly, Ben Nason / Dylan Grimes / Robert Hicks, Pat Contin,Relton Roberts,
2010 - Reece Conca, Jake Batchelor, Bradley Helbig, Dean MacDonald, Tom Derickx / Bachar Houli / Ben Jakobi, Brad Miller, Tom Hislop,
2011 - Brandon Ellis, Todd elton, Matthew Arnot / Brett O'Hanlon / Adam Maric, Ben Darou, Steven Verrier, Gibson Turner, Piva Wright,
2012 - Nick Vlaustin, K.McIntosh, Liam McBeam, Matthew McDonaghue / Ricky Pettard, Sam Lonergan, Orren Stephenson, Cadeyn Williams,
2013 - Ben Lennon, Nathan Gordon, Sam Lloyd / Todd Banfield, Anthony Miles, Matt Thomas,
2014 - Corey Ellis, Connor Menadue, Nathan Drummond, Dan Butler, Reece McKenzie / Jayden Short, Jason Castagna, Kane Lambert, Matthew Arnot, Ivan Soldo
2015 - D.Rioli, Oleg Markov, Nathan Broad / Callum Moore, M.Chol, Adam Marcon,
2016 - Shai Bolton, Jack Graham, R.Garthwaite / T.Stengle,
TRADED IN - Shaun Grigg, Shaun Hampson, Chris Yarran, Dion Prestia, Josh Caddy, Jacob Townsend, Toby Nankervis
Red are National Draft, Blue is Pre-Season or Rookie Draft
Green are Trades
Yellow are Wallace/Miller era
Players recruited pre-Dimma, under Wallace/Miller
Trent Cotchin
Alex Rance
Shane Edwards
Jack Riewoldt
The core to the flag era being build was in the last 2 years of the Wallace era when the team really bottomed out, with the final year also netting us Dusty ( Dimma's first draft pick).
So when Dimma took over, he had 4 of the top 5 most important players to our dynasty era already on the list, with the 5th & most important piece being Dusty - added due to the Pick 3 he had to use, left from Terry + Astbury as well coming in the 2nd round of that first. All under the age of 21.
So when Dimma took over he had FOUR future GF Tiger Hall of Famers already on the list & he got 2 more with the 1st & 2nd rounder the former coach left for him.
Does the new coach have the same talent? We definitely have nothing even close to that U21 talent Dimma adopted & the new coach wont have either a 1st or 2nd rounder to go get a Dusty or Astbury? The list is in a dire situation.
The club wont have the luxury of being able to ride mature age assistance as you suggest as we need to bottom right out to get that young talent worth developing. The current crop is suspect. at best.
The task to rebuild to a flag now is much harder than 2010 in a lot of ways.
The Dimma era of recruiting alone would not have won us a single flag - it was the carryover of the Wallace/Miller Era with some key spurts of recruting that meshed together to make it happen. The recruiting over the Dimma era is very hit and miss.
- May 28, 2013
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Lol yeah we beat hawks during thier glory years! Just saying
- Apr 30, 2016
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Brilliant summary you're 100% spot on. (Will spew if we really drop off remainder of the season to avoid GWS pick being too juicey). Only knock is it looks like your printer ran out of ink at the midpoint or do we need to squirt lemon juice on it lol. The club invested heavily in the 2021 draft and 4 have had some opportunities. Would love to see from round 1 next season all 5 getting consistent senior games as there should be room with retirements and player turnover. Got to get plenty to 50 games instead of carrying players who're past it and list cloggers who play one good game followed by 5
ones a la Tubby Graham.
We will probably finish bottom 4 next year and the year after and we probably need to anyway before Tassie starts taking picks. Have lost our belief now so we can’t turn it around even if get Lynch back because his return (assuming he plays enough games) will be offset by the further drop off in Dusty, Prestia, vlastuin, Nank, broad,etc and younger guys not good enough to fill that drop off
wegetpumped
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Paying so much for hopper and Taranto and having such long term deals has and is going to continue to hurt for the next 6 years .
In saying that I like the look of Gibcus as a forward as well as the fact some of the debutants this year have genuine pace .
We need to add genuine pace badly .
- May 8, 2019
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Dan Rioli no good?
I would not be trading Dow as he is the only mid on our list who is not playing regular AFL. Ross may play there down the track but maybe not.
Dow has been in our best 2-3 players all year in the VFL, best again on the weekend. He is working pretty much solo in the packs and is doing a lot of work round the stoppages. He has not been seen bar one game this year at AFL level, so no way to judge him at the top level.
He is tracking very much like his brother, who is now just starting to impact games at the top level, 2 x 20+ games in the last 3 weeks.
If Thompon Dow can put on some weight and strength over the preseason he will be a much better player as he gets bodied out, but his has exactly what we need around the stoppages, very quick and agile over 10m. With our one paced midfield I think we need to keep him one more year to see how he turns out.
Surely we have to go to the draft and not give up more picks for mids. We will have zero inside mid back up next season and one less inside mid in Cotchin.
