Future Developments of Sydney Stadiums

[bombersfan4000]

Wtf?!? Amo comps are recording and faking crowd numbers? Lol

the NRL has been fudging crowds for decades (google it)
the ammo comps? what need 20/30k seater stadiums? plus millions spent on them? from state and federal funding?
th NRL clubs & many traditional amateur clubs have these massive leagues flube raking in over $50 million plus a season & yet still put next to stuff all in to facilities expect government and council to flip the bill

if the other States had a fraction in what the NSW and federal governments had spent on stadium and suburban grounds! FFS or even if clubs owned leagues clubs and had concessions for leagues clubs like the NSW clubs have had

 

[Ned_Flanders]

the NRL has been fudging crowds for decades (google it)
the ammo comps? what need 20/30k seater stadiums? plus millions spent on them? from state and federal funding?
th NRL clubs & many traditional amateur clubs have these massive leagues flube raking in over $50 million plus a season & yet still put next to stuff all in to facilities expect government and council to flip the bill

if the other States had a fraction in what the NSW and federal governments had spent on stadium and suburban grounds! FFS or even if clubs owned leagues clubs and had concessions for leagues clubs like the NSW clubs have had

This has ZERO to do with your post. You said:


amateur comps do not need stadiums built as there are already enough of them that are highly under used



This is crap, because grounds for junior and community comps are in massive demand in sydney, with getting access to a ground for new arrangements bloody hard in most suburbs (because access has been fully locked up at the key times by existing arrangements)

 

[Colonial]

Greater Sydney has only needs 5 stadiums due to spread.

Sfs and SCG in east
ANZ and spotless in the inner west

A multipurpose 30k stadium in the outer west.

Anything else added is over kill.

With Parra being rebuilt thatll never happen now.

We will end up with SFS, SCG, rebuilt ANZ, Spotless and Parra.

They will be the only ones getting funding.

Any of the 2nd tier stadiums (The Den etc) wont get major developments unless through private funding. Nor should they.

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[Rob]

$1.6 billion? To lower capacity by 15,000 and bring a few seats slightly closer?

What else were they going to do, put in seat warmers and give everyone their own personal beer taps?

 

[Colonial]

$1.6 billion? To lower capacity by 15,000 and bring a few seats slightly closer?

What else were they going to do, put in seat warmers and give everyone their own personal beer taps?

Its almost a complete redesign(incl a rood i think.)
But that is also including surroinds where they are going to build cafees pubs and clubs etc as its dead around besides the 1 pub that usually shuts around 9.

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[Speck]

Sitting 3 rows from the back on the wing for Origin last week, what a horrendous roof design that was.

 

[Kwality]

More political flack on the issue, including the SCG & ANZ Stadium:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/shadow-sports-minister-lynda-voltz-slams-anz-stadium-buyback-as-allianz-stadium-in-need-of-urgent-137-million-upgrade-20170814-gxvi15.html

Alliance at 31 years old needs a cool $137 mil spent on it ...

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

More political flack on the issue, including the SCG & ANZ Stadium:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/shadow-sports-minister-lynda-voltz-slams-anz-stadium-buyback-as-allianz-stadium-in-need-of-urgent-137-million-upgrade-20170814-gxvi15.html

Alliance at 31 years old needs a cool $137 mil spent on it ...

Given it costs about $3,000 per seat for basic concrete, steel and construction costs at very basic smaller stadiums, probably $80 mil is for electronics - ie big new screens, wi-fi, sound system and another $50mil on corporate boxes.

Although the article sounds like the SCG Trust is getting $$$ for over the top OH&S requirements

The trust claimed on Monday the 31-year-old Allianz Stadium – home of the NRL's Roosters, A-League champions Sydney FC and Super Rugby's Waratahs – was poorly equipped to cope with an emergency. There are fears that unless the venue desperately receives a significant upgrade it won't be operational within a few years. "The issue is that while the stadium is completely safe – it is not meeting all required modern building standards," the trust said.

"In close consultation with Fire and Rescue NSW and the NSW Police, the trust has identified best practice and procedures to ensure the venue complies with the guidelines set out in the conditional certificate of occupancy. "This process cannot continue indefinitely and the trust has put a proposal to the NSW government for essential expenditure of the order of $137 million to bring Allianz Stadium to an acceptable level of safety and compliance. "Such an investment will not impact the fan experience, for better or for worse."

 

[Dirty Bird]

That makes me wonder

What takes precedence.

Heritage listing
Or fire code and the like

Just wondering for stuff like the scgs ladies stand and Adelaide ovals scoreboard which I'd hate to see disappear.

 

[Colonial]

That makes me wonder

What takes precedence.

Heritage listing
Or fire code and the like

Just wondering for stuff like the scgs ladies stand and Adelaide ovals scoreboard which I'd hate to see disappear.

Fire code would. By law safety would always win out.
But there would be ways of not harming the stand and getting it to code.

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[brucetiki]

That makes me wonder

What takes precedence.

Heritage listing
Or fire code and the like

Just wondering for stuff like the scgs ladies stand and Adelaide ovals scoreboard which I'd hate to see disappear.

I think heritage listings can be 'compromised' to accomodate things like fire code, disability access etc. One example is the supports added to the back of the Adelaide Oval scoreboard about 10 years ago to prevent it toppling.

 

[Kwality]

Allianz Stadium could be knocked down and work started on a new 45,000-seat stadium as early as May next year.

NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg told club bosses in a telephone hook-up on Friday to prepare themselves for the likelihood of both Allianz and ANZ Stadium being out of action at the same time.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/allianz-stadium-set-to-jump-the-queue-in-sydneys-bitter-stadium-war-20170827-gy57de.html

NRL clubs have been told the earliest that construction could start on ANZ Stadium's $900 million reconfiguration into a rectangular venue is the first quarter of 2019. The SCG Trust has told the government that Allianz is ready to go as early as May 2018.


Influential figures on the Trust — headed by 2GB broadcaster Alan Jones — have been agitating for work to start on Allianz as soon as possible because of safety and compliance issues at the 31-year-old venue.

 

[Ian Dunross]

How a State government could justify spending $1bn redeveloping (not building) a 20 year old stadium in a non-central location beggars belief.

Especially when that stadium would only nudge 50k 2-3 occasions each year.

 

[Colonial]

How a State government could justify spending $1bn redeveloping (not building) a 20 year old stadium in a non-central location beggars belief.

Especially when that stadium would only nudge 50k 2-3 occasions each year.

Are you talking SFS or ANZ?

Oh and the 1bn is total on 3 stadiums not for just 1 stadium.

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[Ian Dunross]

Are you talking SFS or ANZ?

Oh and the 1bn is total on 3 stadiums not for just 1 stadium.

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Thought I'd seen a budget of $800m quoted to redevelop ANZ

 

[Colonial]

Thought I'd seen a budget of $800m quoted to redevelop ANZ

Would be weird as its 500 mil just for Parra.

Fairly certain it was 300 mil for ANZ

No idea about Sfs as its gone from a total rebuild to a few upgrades back to a full rebuild.

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[pOleK]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...l/news-story/317031db165a255dedbcedfec62cfe41

AFL bid for ANZ Stadium to become an oval stadium could cost NSW the NRL grand final

SYDNEY risks losing the NRL grand final if the State Government bows to a stunning move from the AFL to hijack plans for transforming ANZ Stadium.

The Daily Telegraph has exclusively obtained a letter from Victorian-based AFL supremo Gillon McLachlan to NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian, where he pushes a claim for ANZ to be maintained as an oval-shaped venue in the looming $1.6 billion stadiums allocation.

The brazen bid comes despite the AFL and the Sydney Swans virtually abandoning the Olympic Stadium over the past 12 months as the game struggles to fill neighbouring Spotless Stadium, even for elimination finals matches.

The NRL has responded by warning the city could lose a 20-year guarantee to host the grand final, as well as State of Origin matches, if a Memorandum of Understanding they have with the NSW Government to make the transformation of ANZ Stadium into a world-class rectangular venue the No. 1 priority is broken.

“We would expect the terms of that MOU to be delivered so we can guarantee our biggest rugby league matches will remain in Sydney for the next two decades — something which will provide hundreds of millions of tourism dollars to the state’s economy,” said an NRL spokesman.

The MOU the NRL has with the State Government includes the rebuild of Parramatta Stadium and an upgrade of Allianz Stadium, and in return the pledge is to keep league blockbusters in Sydney.

As well as vying to railroad the hopes of rugby league and soccer with ANZ Stadium, the AFL’s list of requests include a specific emphasis on the redevelopment of the Brewongle-Churchill and O’Reilly Stands at the SCG being an urgent priority as well as pitching up for Spotless Stadium to have its capacity increased to up to 35,000.

“We believe the opportunity cost of prioritising such redevelopments (of ANZ and Allianz Stadium) at the expense of oval venues and fans of oval-based sports should be contemplated in any business case that determines the Government’s priorities with respect to stadium investment,” said McLachlan of his specific request for maintaining the “ability for ANZ Stadium to host oval sports where large crowds are expected”.

Football Federation Australia has also hit back at the AFL’s Johnny-come-lately approach, reiterating that a state-of-the-art rectangular ANZ Stadium was the clear priority for the city.

“You can’t blame them for trying though they’ve come to the party a bit late,” said FFA chief executive David Gallop.

“The priority should be the development of world-class rectangular stadiums. Football has led the way with the demand for a high quality stadium at Parramatta.

“We have already had 50,000 plus crowds five times this year at ANZ and Honduras is still to come. Those fans deserve a better facility and this city needs to compete against Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane.”

The AFL also wants academies created at Moore Park and upgraded at Sydney Olympic Park to support both Sydney Swans and GWS Giants’ women’s and girls’ teams.

As reported in The Daily Telegraph, they have joined forces with Cricket Australia in their bid for a $400 million slice of the pie and McLachlan wants the SCG upgraded by the 2022 Ashes series.

McLachlan points out that the Brewongle-Churchill and O’Reilly stands were built in 1980 and 1984 respectively and “do not meet the minimum guidelines of the AFL”, with the SCG ranked “last or second last” for facilities and amenities of the league’s nine major stadiums venues.

However, the AFL’s audacious lobbying for ANZ Stadium to remain an Oval is the one set to most polarise opinion — particularly given the Sydney Swans severed ties with the Olympic venue last year at the urging of members.

“We believe the total financial contribution required of the NSW Government to achieve all the aforementioned items would be circa $400m,” said McLachlan, who used the 60,022 that turned out for the 2016 Sydney Swans v GWS Giants Sydney AFL Finals’ derby as his case in point.

“This represents approximately 25 per cent of the current $1.6 billion committed to stadiums in NSW. This would leave the remaining funds to support other stadiums in the network.”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/d5cfde1c0cdeb5979ea78a5432bb4a28

Cricket Australia joins stadium war in bid to halt SCG fall from grace

CRICKET Australia has launched an audacious bid to have the SCG promoted up the batting order in the state’s stadium funding war.

With the NSW Government expected to hand down the final allocation of its $1.6 billion stadiums package inside the next month, CA chief executive James Sutherland has written to Premier Gladys Berejiklian to highlight the SCG’s fall from grace as a Test venue.

In a letter penned on October 17, exclusively obtained by The Daily Telegraph, Sutherland lobbies for the redevelopment of the dated Brewongle-Churchill and O’Reilly Stands (which make up 60 per cent of public seating), and alerts the Premier to the fact that in terms of “public facilities and amenities” the iconic stadium is now ranked No. 5 out of the 6 Test grounds around the country.

It’s understood AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan has also joined Sutherland in personally writing to the Government to push the funding claims of the city’s two oval venues the SCG and Spotless Stadium as mass speculation points towards ANZ and Allianz Stadiums being the high priorities in provisions for the billion dollar stadium network.

The bold argument being levelled by Cricket Australia and the AFL to get their slice of the pie is that the SCG is the only ground in Sydney that plays host to two clubs that regularly draw 30,000-plus crowds in the Sydney Swans and the Sydney Sixers.

Sutherland’s letter also lobbies the Government for a second cricketing “hub” at Sydney Olympic Park to fix NSW Cricket’s facilities crisis.

The Daily Telegraph understands it would take an estimated $400 million out of the $1.6 billion pool to facilitate the requests CA is making for urgent facility upgrades and ventures at the SCG and Sydney Olympic Park.

Amid all the talk about Sydney’s rectangular stadium deficiencies, Sutherland has implored the Premier to not forget about cricket.

“I am writing further to your recent meetings with Cricket NSW to outline Cricket Australia’s priorities in relation to planned NSW Government investment in its stadiums network and Cricket Australia’s support for the plans developed by Cricket NSW to improve cricket’s ageing and inadequate high performance training and administration facilities in Sydney,” writes Sutherland.

“… Cricket’s specific stadiums priorities are:

“Completion of the SCG, including redevelopment of the dated Brewongle-Churchill and O’Reilly Stands, which constitute more than 60 per cent of the public capacity at the SCG. With the launch of Perth Stadium, as well as recent developments at other major cricket venues, the public facilities and amenities of these stands now rank 5 of 6 of the Test cricket venues in Australia (with Hobart’s Bellerive Oval ranked 6).

In addition, both of these stands were constructed prior to the neighbouring Allianz Stadium where significant safety and compliance issues have been recently identified by the SCG Trust, due to the venue’s age and condition. We expect there are similar issues with the Brewongle-Churchill and O’Reilly Stands.”

The NSW Government say they aren’t dismissing the claims of any of the major sports to lobby them directly, and will go back and brief the major stakeholders when final decisions are made.

“NSW deserves the best sports stadiums in the country. We need world class sporting facilities to attract national and international events. The stadiums plan will be an investment in a network of stadiums,” said a Government spokesman.

“We’re now working hard to get the sequencing in construction that will result in the best outcome for sports and fans.”

Sutherland points to the 380,000 fans that attended cricket at the SCG and Spotless last season.

However, Cricket Australia is just as concerned about a facilities crisis in Sydney, where there are limited net and practice facilities for NSW, the state that makes up 55 per cent of the players in all Australian teams.

Women’s players are regularly unable to train on turf wickets at the SCG due to the lack of space, and Cricket NSW is proposing a model called “two clubs two hubs” — a push for centre of excellence style facilities at both Moore Park and Sydney Olympic Park, which would mimic the set-up in Melbourne where there are facilities at the MCG and Junction Oval.

Sutherland stressed the importance of this being given sequence priority over any planned redevelopment of Moore Park’s Allianz Stadium, which could impact upon existing nets at the SCG.

“… It is critical that any new and improved training facilities are delivered at both Moore Park and Sydney Olympic Park prior to any potential impact on cricket’s current facilities at Moore Park in the event of a redevelopment of Allianz Stadium,” he wrote.

Few articles suggesting that the AFL are looking at hijacking some of the upgrade deals surrounding Sydney's major stadiums. I myself think ANZ is absolutely shithouse to watch the footy at but can see this being a strategy just to earn some funding to upgrade the SCG and Spotless

 

[Colonial]

Screw ANZ.

Upgrade Spotless to 35k and the needed upgrades to SCG and we are fine.


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[NoobPie]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...l/news-story/317031db165a255dedbcedfec62cfe41


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/d5cfde1c0cdeb5979ea78a5432bb4a28

Few articles suggesting that the AFL are looking at hijacking some of the upgrade deals surrounding Sydney's major stadiums. I myself think ANZ is absolutely shithouse to watch the footy at but can see this being a strategy just to earn some funding to upgrade the SCG and Spotless

"Hijack" is an interesting verb. Seems both the AFL and CA are well within their rights to question a $2B "NSW investment strategy" that effectively just rebuilds three rectangular stadiums neither can play in. Particularly given they are the only sports that actually fill their existing stadiums with any regularity

The full development of the two oval stadiums would apparently cost $400M. Contrast this with the $1.6 B to knock down and rebuild a 17 year old olympic stadium

 

[BobbyMorri]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...l/news-story/317031db165a255dedbcedfec62cfe41


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/d5cfde1c0cdeb5979ea78a5432bb4a28

Few articles suggesting that the AFL are looking at hijacking some of the upgrade deals surrounding Sydney's major stadiums. I myself think ANZ is absolutely shithouse to watch the footy at but can see this being a strategy just to earn some funding to upgrade the SCG and Spotless

God, i hope it is this. ANZ is a mess nowadays partly because they listened to AFL/CA 17 years ago. I swear i read the original plan for it was for it to be fully transformed into a rectangle after the Olympics but dont quote me on that. For me, it is either transform it into rectangle stadium or knock it down.

The Giants/Thunder have a good thing going at Spotless. No need to ruin it by trying to fit into ANZ. And Hell No for the Swans to EVER playing there again.

The SCG should be the home of Test cricket till the end of time. (and the swans as well)

 

[desie]

"Hijack" is an interesting verb. Seems both the AFL and CA are well within their rights to question a $2B "NSW investment strategy" that effectively just rebuilds three rectangular stadiums neither can play in. Particularly given they are the only sports that actually fill their existing stadiums with any regularity

The full development of the two oval stadiums would apparently cost $400M. Contrast this with the $1.6 B to knock down and rebuild a 17 year old olympic stadium

The vast majority of content in Sydney is provided by 'rectangular' sport, of course it will be the main focus.

The Swans couldn't run away from ANZ fast enough, there's not a chance in hell it stays as multipurpose given the government's commitment to a 'world class rectangular stadium' there.

 

[NoobPie]

The vast majority of content in Sydney is provided by 'rectangular' sport, of course it will be the main focus.

The Swans couldn't run away from ANZ fast enough, there's not a chance in hell it stays as multipurpose given the government's commitment to a 'world class rectangular stadium' there.

The vast majority of "content" might be provided by rectangular sport basically because the nrl has 9 clubs there. The problem is the vast majority of this content could fit comfortably into stadiums that hold under 20k.

$2b plus on 3 stadiums that only hold rectangular sports, when barely a dozen such games get much over 20k a year? Conversely you are actually reducing the stadium availability for the two sports that can pull 20 plus crowds of 30k plus between them?

 

[Demonoid]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...l/news-story/317031db165a255dedbcedfec62cfe41


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/d5cfde1c0cdeb5979ea78a5432bb4a28

Few articles suggesting that the AFL are looking at hijacking some of the upgrade deals surrounding Sydney's major stadiums. I myself think ANZ is absolutely shithouse to watch the footy at but can see this being a strategy just to earn some funding to upgrade the SCG and Spotless

I don't know what to make of this. Is the AFL being crafty and sneaky in trying to screw RL over? As others have mentioned above, the SCG is more than ample for the Swans, as is spotless for the Giants. There are very few occasions where you would expect an AFL match in Sydney to significantly beat a capacity SCG (i.e. >50k). A Sydney Derby in a final, and Swans final, probably a prelim, against a big Victorian team. These scenarios would eventuate once in a blue moon. Yes, there Swans did get a pair of 70k+ crowds last decade, but those days seem a long time ago now.

GWS chairman, and chair of the SCG Trust of course, Tony Shepherd, has also long advocated keeping ANZ in its oval form, so I think you are right about saving the dollars for completing the upgrades to the SCG (which I assume will bump capacity to 50k+).

With Channel 9 and Foxtel actively pushing for more games in smaller stadiums, not to mention NRL crowds dropping DESPITE more games being played in large stadia, how on earth is an upgrade to ANZ justified?

 

[RedV3x]

The vast majority of content in Sydney is provided by 'rectangular' sport,

Exactly, the vast majority of content in Sydney already provides for 'rectangular' sport.

Why rectangular sports continue to use stadia far in excess of their reqiurements is beyond me.
When the SFS stadium was built everybody praised the SFS as the ideal rectangular stadium
yet it has been hardly used and nowhere near to it's capacity.

The Swans couldn't run away from ANZ fast enough,

Swans fans shunned ANZ stadium because the stadium itself is very poor.
Despite this the Swans hold the attendance record for H&A games.
They can easily upgrade ANZ without losing the oval surface.
For $1.6 billion I would definitely demolish and start again.
I don't see the need to spend $1.6 billion on a stadium that held only two games with crowd over 45,000 in 2017
and five games less than 10,000.
WTF would you use such a big stadium for five games less than 10,000.
Updating SFS makes sense. Finishing SCG makes sense. Parramatta stadium makes sense.
Spending money on ANZ makes little sense.
Spending money on ANZ and Spotless makes no sense.

 

[Colonial]

Exactly, the vast majority of content in Sydney already provides for 'rectangular' sport.

Why rectangular sports continue to use stadia far in excess of their reqiurements is beyond me.
When the SFS stadium was built everybody praised the SFS as the ideal rectangular stadium
yet it has been hardly used and nowhere near to it's capacity.



Swans fans shunned ANZ stadium because the stadium itself is very poor.
Despite this the Swans hold the attendance record for H&A games.
They can easily upgrade ANZ without losing the oval surface.
For $1.6 billion I would definitely demolish and start again.
I don't see the need to spend $1.6 billion on a stadium that held only two games with crowd over 45,000 in 2017
and five games less than 10,000.
WTF would you use such a big stadium for five games less than 10,000.
Updating SFS makes sense. Finishing SCG makes sense. Parramatta stadium makes sense.
Spending money on ANZ makes little sense.
Spending money on ANZ and Spotless makes no sense.

For 40mil we can update Spotless to 35k.
Makes a lot of sense.
More than 500mil for a new parra.

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