Future Developments of Sydney Stadiums

[RedV3x]

Anyone that thinks an AFL/Cricket oval makes a decent Rugby League/Union or Soccer venue is clearly deluded.

Yes, those people at NRL must be deluded for playing on ovals.

Whether its the MCG,Docklands,Adelaide or Perth Stadium,the viewing for the rectangular sports at any of these venues is terrible.L

Yes, those people at NRL must be deluded for playing on those ovals.

At least ANZ Stadium makes an effort to bring spectators closer to the sidelines!

And it's an oval, ha ha ha.

again,”Perth Stadium,the benchmark in World Stadiums”. LOL ROFL

Shown your ignorance again there. You don't get news from Perth do you.


http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...w/news-story/e431e3cfb8e09aaed37de0920b5a5e27

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....world-class-lighting-display-turns-it-on.aspx

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....m-will-be-venue-that-puts-all-fans-first.aspx

Oh, here's an eastern states paper

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/a7a4124dedde4e82a01e4a3b1d5571dd

 

[RedV3x]

Swans dont want afl at anz

Giants dont want afl at anz

Swans want to play home games at the SCG and play at ANZ if the demand requires. That's quite reasonable.
Giants are happy playing at Spotless H&A and are open to playing at ANZ if the demand requires it . That's quite reasonable.

The stadium issue is about future planning and effective use of taxpayer's money.
Saying NRL don't want AFL is a ridiculous approach.
Frankly the NRL is fearful of the wrong code. The elephant in the stadium is soccer.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Swans want to play home games at the SCG and play at ANZ if the demand requires. That's quite reasonable.
Giants are happy playing at Spotless H&A and are open to playing at ANZ if the demand requires it . That's quite reasonable.

The stadium issue is about future planning and effective use of taxpayer's money.
Saying NRL don't want AFL is a ridiculous approach.
Frankly the NRL is fearful of the wrong code. The elephant in the stadium is soccer.

Its not that the nrl dont want afl, its they dont want the main nrl stadium in australia to be a bloody oval

Ovals for rectangular games - even with moveable stands - take the punters too far from the action

Anz is the wrong stadium for sydney

 

[RedV3x]

As a sports fan they really need to fix ANZ.

To little cost/benefit to fix. Rather demolish and rebuild.
Fix/rebuild doesn't mean it cannot stay an oval.
Squaring off ANZ will make ANZ totally bizarre in appearance,
but if that's what the retangular people want so be it.
People should groan when Spotless and SCG want there "fix" as well.
just too little cost/benefit IMO.

 

[NoobPie]

If its what nsw punters want, go for it

Its their taxes, not mine

That's the thing, it is not clear that is what the NSW punters want....I suspect just a very noisy minority would think the over $1b should be directed to rebuilding a 17 year old stadium with that apparent primary motivation to reduce the dimensions of the playing surface with the effect that the country's two biggest bums-on-seats sporting codes can't use it.

The idea that the AFL as the second biggest crowd drawing sport in Sydney has no right to submit a letter stating its priorities to a $2 Billion NSW stadium investment bonanza is absurd. Ah well, some numpty has leaked it to the Daily Telly and a whole lot of numpties have got outraged and screeched how they are never going to watch AFL again like they have already done so many times before

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's the thing, it is not clear that is what the NSW punters want....I suspect just a very noisy minority would think the over $1b should be directed to rebuilding a 17 year old stadium with that apparent primary motivation to reduce the dimensions of the playing surface with the effect that the country's two biggest bums-on-seats sporting codes can't use it.

The idea that the AFL as the second biggest crowd drawing sport in Sydney has no right to submit a letter stating its priorities to a $2 Billion NSW stadium investment bonanza is absurd. Ah well, some numpty has leaked it to the Daily Telly and a whole lot of numpties have got outraged and screeched how they are never going to watch AFL again like they have already done so many times before

The afl is disengenous in making a major billion dollar change proposal for a stadium it might only play 1-2 games at a year.

Keeping it as an oval for 1-2 games a year is beyond wasteful. Its not needed, AND it will kill the much needed ground rationalization in sydney in the nrl.

Having massive stadia for one of possible games is just stupid. Sure they are cool (i used to post on skyscrapercitys stadium board after all), but a 70k oval in sydney with a 45k scg and a 30k spotless is unrequired and pointless.

 

[NoobPie]

The afl is disengenous in making a major billion dollar change proposal for a stadium it might only play 1-2 games at a year.

Keeping it as an oval for 1-2 games a year is beyond wasteful. Its not needed, AND it will kill the much needed ground rationalization in sydney in the nrl.

Having massive stadia for one of possible games is just stupid. Sure they are cool (i used to post on skyscrapercitys stadium board after all), but a 70k oval in sydney with a 45k scg and a 30k spotless is unrequired and pointless.

Nonsensical and I suspect it is you who is being disingenuous. Spending $1.6B rebuilding a 17 year old stadium that is very infrequently filled beyond 25% is beyond wasteful. Not spending the $1.6 B is the non-wasteful thing to do....this is very basic logic dude. Where do you get "a major billion dollar change proposal" from? The AFL and CA are saying the total cost of completely the redevelopment of the SCG and Spotless is $400M.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Nonsensical and I suspect it is you who is being disingenuous. Spending $1.6B rebuilding a 17 year old stadium that is very infrequently filled beyond 25% is beyond wasteful. Not spending the $1.6 B is the non-wasteful thing to do....this is very basic logic dude. Where do you get "a major billion dollar change proposal" from? The AFL and CA are saying the total cost of completely the redevelopment of the SCG and Spotless is $400M.

The afl by stopping the rebuilding of anz is trying to stop everything else

Ground rationalization in sydney is contingent on anz, sfs, and parra all being good enough for clubs to walk away from their suburban grounds

Anz is critical to this, and clubs will not agree to abandon their suburban bases for an oval ground

Afl has no intention of playing more games at anz, so they should have no say in what configuration its in.

 

[NoobPie]

The afl by stopping the rebuilding of anz is trying to stop everything else

Ground rationalization in sydney is contingent on anz, sfs, and parra all being good enough for clubs to walk away from their suburban grounds

Anz is critical to this, and clubs will not agree to abandon their suburban bases for an oval ground

Afl has no intention of playing more games at anz, so they should have no say in what configuration its in.

This are all the quotes from the leak letter published in the Daily telly hatchet job...

"“We believe the opportunity cost of prioritising such redevelopments (of ANZ and Allianz Stadium) at the expense of oval venues and fans of oval-based sports should be contemplated in any business case that determines the Government’s priorities with respect to stadium investment,” said McLachlan of his specific request for maintaining the “ability for ANZ Stadium to host oval sports where large crowds are expected”."

McLachlan points out that the Brewongle-Churchill and O’Reilly stands were built in 1980 and 1984 respectively and “do not meet the minimum guidelines of the AFL”, with the SCG ranked “last or second last” for facilities and amenities of the league’s nine major stadiums venues.

“We believe the total financial contribution required of the NSW Government to achieve all the aforementioned items would be circa $400m,” said McLachlan, who used the 60,022 that turned out for the 2016 Sydney Swans v GWS Giants Sydney AFL Finals’ derby as his case in point.

“This represents approximately 25 per cent of the current $1.6 billion committed to stadiums in NSW. This would leave the remaining funds to support other stadiums in the network.”"

This is the only part of the letter made available to us in an article lead in with "SYDNEY risks losing the NRL grand final if the State Government bows to a stunning move from the AFL to hijack plans for transforming ANZ Stadium."

The AFL's letter is perfect reasonable. The only reference to ANZ is not even a complete sentence. Stopping the rebuilding of ANZ is not "stopping everything else", in fact it's quite the opposite. If NSW was going to spend $1.6 Billion on stadiums, blowing it all on a complete rebuild of the 17YO olympic stadium would have to be the worst way to spend it.

If "ground rationalisation" of the NRL costs the public $2B, you have to wonder how "rational" that is (or indeed anyone seriously trying to argue it)

 

[Ned_Flanders]

This are all the quotes from the leak letter published in the Daily telly hatchet job...

"“We believe the opportunity cost of prioritising such redevelopments (of ANZ and Allianz Stadium) at the expense of oval venues and fans of oval-based sports should be contemplated in any business case that determines the Government’s priorities with respect to stadium investment,” said McLachlan of his specific request for maintaining the “ability for ANZ Stadium to host oval sports where large crowds are expected”."

McLachlan points out that the Brewongle-Churchill and O’Reilly stands were built in 1980 and 1984 respectively and “do not meet the minimum guidelines of the AFL”, with the SCG ranked “last or second last” for facilities and amenities of the league’s nine major stadiums venues.

“We believe the total financial contribution required of the NSW Government to achieve all the aforementioned items would be circa $400m,” said McLachlan, who used the 60,022 that turned out for the 2016 Sydney Swans v GWS Giants Sydney AFL Finals’ derby as his case in point.

“This represents approximately 25 per cent of the current $1.6 billion committed to stadiums in NSW. This would leave the remaining funds to support other stadiums in the network.”"

This is the only part of the letter made available to us in an article lead in with "SYDNEY risks losing the NRL grand final if the State Government bows to a stunning move from the AFL to hijack plans for transforming ANZ Stadium."

The AFL's letter is perfect reasonable. The only reference to ANZ is not even a complete sentence. Stopping the rebuilding of ANZ is not "stopping everything else", in fact it's quite the opposite. If NSW was going to spend $1.6 Billion on stadiums, blowing it all on a complete rebuild of the 17YO olympic stadium would have to be the worst way to spend it.

If "ground rationalisation" of the NRL costs the public $2B, you have to wonder how "rational" that is (or indeed anyone seriously trying to argue it)

The ground rationalization debate has been going on for years, and clubs wont move unless their new home is better for them. An oval isnt better.

 

[Kwality]

So "The fact remains in 2017 The NRL G.F. didn't reach 80k. Did it ? No it didn't reach 80K." Isn't true ?

Because Austadiums gives the grand final crowd as 79,722. I've found them to inflate figures if anything.

Yes, thats exactly why your views on this subject (NSW stadiums funding) are tripe, embarassing & fair dinkum arrogant.
Topped off by your claim about the Perth Stadium, what do reckon, its the worlds best under construction, yet to open, venue?

 

[NoobPie]

The ground rationalization debate has been going on for years, and clubs wont move unless their new home is better for them. An oval isnt better.

That's not the NSW taxpayers problem. "Ground rationalisation" in Victoria meant two large stadiums paid for with minimal tax payer input

This year there were 35 Home and away games there at an average of 14,410. Apparently they are currently paid to play there. How many games currently not there, that would not otherwise be better or equal off playing at the rebuilt para or rebuilt allianz?

"ground rationalisation" is a non-argument for a $1B Plus rebuild of ANZ

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's not the NSW taxpayers problem. "Ground rationalisation" in Victoria meant two large stadiums paid for with minimal tax payer input

This year there were 35 Home and away games there at an average of 14,410. Apparently they are currently paid to play there. How many games currently not there, that would not otherwise be better or equal off playing at the rebuilt para or rebuilt allianz?

"ground rationalisation" is a non-argument for a $1B Plus rebuild of ANZ

Who do you think is maintaining these small suburban grounds on govt/council ground?

Ground rationalisation means no more investing in small grounds like leichthart, which are getting more and more expensive to maintain - and are a big reason for small crowds (try getting a carpark around any of these grounds)

 

[NoobPie]

Who do you think is maintaining these small suburban grounds on govt/council ground?

Ground rationalisation means no more investing in small grounds like leichthart, which are getting more and more expensive to maintain - and are a big reason for small crowds (try getting a carpark around any of these grounds)

Leichardt is equidistant between moore park and sydney olympic park (going off google maps) likewise is Kogorah

The only team that seems unambiguously better serviced by ANZ than Allianz or parra is the bulldogs. Others, particularly Penrith, Manly and the Sharks are surely not likely to have the grounds "rationalised"?

Again, complete nonsense that a $1B rebuild of a 17 year old olympic stadium is about (economical) ground rationalisation for NRL clubs

 

[dantm]

Yes, those people at NRL must be deluded for playing on ovals.



Yes, those people at NRL must be deluded for playing on those ovals.



And it's an oval, ha ha ha.



Shown your ignorance again there. You don't get news from Perth do you.


http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...w/news-story/e431e3cfb8e09aaed37de0920b5a5e27

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....world-class-lighting-display-turns-it-on.aspx

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....m-will-be-venue-that-puts-all-fans-first.aspx

Oh, here's an eastern states paper

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/a7a4124dedde4e82a01e4a3b1d5571dd

Thank you for that!
The WA Government and the designer of the Perth Stadium letting us all know that their stadium is the greatest stadium to be ever built!

Sorry to break your bubble,but its not.
Its far from it.The are many and many stadiums,either recently built or about to be open,that are far more advanced,far more expensive than this cookie cutter stadium soon to be opened in Burswood.
Anyway,I guess Western Australians can only compare to Subiaco,so in a way,I understand your enthusiasm.

 

[jatz14]

Thank you for that!
The WA Government and the designer of the Perth Stadium letting us all know that their stadium is the greatest stadium to be ever built!

Sorry to break your bubble,but its not.
Its far from it.The are many and many stadiums,either recently built or about to be open,that are far more advanced,far more expensive than this cookie cutter stadium soon to be opened in Burswood.
Anyway,I guess Western Australians can only compare to Subiaco,so in a way,I understand your enthusiasm.

Thank you for the benefit of your expertise. What in your opinion is the main let down in the Perth stadium experience relative to a decent non cookie cutter stadium.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[BobbyMorri]

Swans want to play home games at the SCG and play at ANZ if the demand requires. That's quite reasonable.
Giants are happy playing at Spotless H&A and are open to playing at ANZ if the demand requires it . That's quite reasonable.

The stadium issue is about future planning and effective use of taxpayer's money.
Saying NRL don't want AFL is a ridiculous approach.
Frankly the NRL is fearful of the wrong code. The elephant in the stadium is soccer.

Errr...No we dont.

I am still annoyed over the last time we were FORCED to play there.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Thank you for the benefit of your expertise. What in your opinion is the main let down in the Perth stadium experience relative to a decent non cookie cutter stadium.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

It doesnt have an aquarium along the fence.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Leichardt is equidistant between moore park and sydney olympic park (going off google maps) likewise is Kogorah

The only team that seems unambiguously better serviced by ANZ than Allianz or parra is the bulldogs. Others, particularly Penrith, Manly and the Sharks are surely not likely to have the grounds "rationalised"?

Again, complete nonsense that a $1B rebuild of a 17 year old olympic stadium is about (economical) ground rationalisation for NRL clubs

Why is it a nonsense? You want to spend money keeping it as an oval for maybe, possibly, one game a year

On rationalization:

1) have you been to any of the suburban grounds in sydney? Because referring to google maps as your guide massively oversimplifies their accessibility

2) most clubs had a reason why they need to be excluded and exempt from rationalization. Even in the west and south, clubs argue that everyone else can share, they will get special money to have their own place. Just like docklands broke waverley/princes park, the govt want anz and sfs to break the current arrangement

 

[Colonial]

Errr...No we dont.

I am still annoyed over the last time we were FORCED to play there.

Ive moved on from him.

He is clearly lost in regards to stadiums in Sydney.

This is the same guy that says 1 possible game out of 192 a year means frequent.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[dantm]

Thank you for the benefit of your expertise. What in your opinion is the main let down in the Perth stadium experience relative to a decent non cookie cutter stadium.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

No point discussing the good and bad of Perth Stadium here.There is another thread for that.

Thank you for the benefit of your expertise. What in your opinion is the main let down in the Perth stadium experience relative to a decent non cookie cutter stadium.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

To start with:

AT&T Stadium,Dallas
Mercedes Benz Stadium,Atlanta
Krestovsky Stadium,St Peterburg
US Bank Stadium,Minneapolis

The Atlanta Stadium costed US$1.6 Billion,which included an incredible petal shaped,retractable roof and a 360 deg video screen that circles around the whole roof.
Add in the usual wifi connectivity,luxury boxes etc etc,it has set a standard worldwide with stadium design and experience.

This is a Sydney stadium topic and Perth Stadium has its own thread,so I will leave it there.

 

[RedV3x]

Yes, thats exactly why your views on this subject ..

Are factual. Sorry it upsets you.
Sorry that the mention of Perth Stadium upsets you.

 

[RedV3x]

Thank you for that!
The WA Government and the designer of the Perth Stadium letting us all know that their stadium is the greatest stadium to be ever built!

Pleasure !

 

[NoobPie]

Why is it a nonsense? You want to spend money keeping it as an oval for maybe, possibly, one game a year

No, nobody is suggesting "spending money keeping it as an oval"....they are suggesting that spending a billion dollars rebuilding it at this stage is completely unjustified

I think you are being deliberately obtuse now

On rationalization:

1) have you been to any of the suburban grounds in sydney? Because referring to google maps as your guide massively oversimplifies their accessibility

Of actually only been to the olympic stadium. Once by car (night mare) and once by train (not too bad)...The accessibility of the suburban grounds, or that the NRL might want to move from them, is not relevant to my points which are:

1. Spending $1B plus of taxpayer dollars in rebuilding ANZ is a nonsense as a basis of ground rationalisation given they are already rebuilding parra and allianz is falling down. It is only canterbury that would unambiguously be better off at olympic park than either parra or allianz

2. Spending taxpayer dollars without any apparent sign on from clubs before they do it exposes as bollocks any ground rationalisation justification anyway

2) most clubs had a reason why they need to be excluded and exempt from rationalization. Even in the west and south, clubs argue that everyone else can share, they will get special money to have their own place. Just like docklands broke waverley/princes park, the govt want anz and sfs to break the current arrangement

Have you been to Melbourne? The AFL gets massive crowds and has had the MCG and Etihad built from long term contracts following rationalisation made possible by much stronger control. The docklands didn't "break" waverly/ princess park. The AFL agreed to sell off Waverly to purchase the land title for the the docklands and a pepercorn option to buy after 25 years. The MCG and Etihad are situated at the east and western ends of the CBD which all train lines pulling past one of the two coming into the city. All the clubs are originally from within 8ish km of the CBD and the supporters were used to coming in to watch them, even at their traditional homes most of which are walking distance from etihad and the MCG (including Princes Park)

The NRL gets shit crowds in the main and is providing SFA of these $2B bar a threat to move the GF. There is no commitment from clubs to move. They are currently being paid to play at ANZ. They have clubs created post world war 11 explicitly to represent growth regions (Penrith, manly, and the sharks) none of which could work being moved to ANZ

There is nothing rational about spending $1B plus rebuilding ANZ after just 17 years

 

[RedV3x]

I am still annoyed over the last time we were FORCED to play there.

There is NO specific home ground finals advantage only home state advantage.
That is why Geelong play finals at the MCG.