Prediction Future of Josh has gone to the Dogs.

Where's Schack at in 2018?

  • Brisbane

    Votes: 173 42.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 141 34.5%

  • Does anybody even care anymore?

    Votes: 95 23.2%
  • Total voters
    409

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spotthedog1 said:
Player signs a new contract mid-year, and you're surprised when fans consider that it shouldn't be a fire sale?

I agree that we need to take our overall position into account. But I actually consider what the 'before' was, rather than just saying the 'after looks good'.

If we say that we didn't have much option on the Rocky FA compo, then we end up with:

Before: 1, 12, 18, 20, Schache
After: 1, 15, 18, Cameron

Effectively, we traded: Schache, pick 20, and a downgrade from 12 to 15. And received: Cameron.

How does that look? Not quite as good, huh? For that trade, I'd have tried a few more things with Schache. Maybe he could do with some tough love. I think it was Lethal used to say that players didn't get over homesickness until their 3rd year. Regardless I'd have said he was worth persevering with. If he was worthless, try him for 2 more years. His worth might have improved. Certainly couldn't get much worse.

And Cameron - we already looked like the good guys, we did everything right. Let him play his last year with Adelaide, then pick him up for a pick in the 30s or 40s next year (even if he plays his one good game of the year right before trade period, like he did this year - seriously, go check the game review threads on the Adelaide board for the year).
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That response ignores the fact that Schache was broken and wanted to leave though? that's the sticking point. You can break it down a million ways to suite your narrative. the ship had sailed, they were feeling compassion for him, we wanted to honour his wish.. he was gone, done, we wanted this saga to end. TBH - we also must have decided it was a 'low risk' trade and that he would struggle at the level. He signed mid year.... and still wanted to leave, why would that make fans or the club any more determined to play hardball with him? even after going home and through a process and signing on, he still collapsed in a heap and wanted to leave, your first point emphasis's how much of a terrible position we were in and only proves further that we did OK out of a bad situation. .

also.. we need Cameron for next year, we also need to consider how desperate he is to join us. when good players ask to come to your club you make it happen, we could have waited for Beams too, Adelaide could have waited for Gibbs - we didn't even pay that far over for Gods sake.

He kicked 29 goals this year whilst not enjoying his football. People say that's a bad return as it was in a good side, how about the fact he had to share supply with arguably one of the best forward lines of the modern era?

He had a poor finish to the season, but what I have seen most from Crows supporters is an outpouring of disappointment and admiration for him with posts like 'You have gotten yourselves a good one there guys' etc etc.
 

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lioninthesand said:
That response ignores the fact that Schache was broken and wanted to leave though? that's the sticking point. You can break it down a million ways to suite your narrative. the ship had sailed, they were feeling compassion for him, we wanted to honour his wish.. he was gone, done, we wanted this saga to end. TBH - we also must have decided it was a 'low risk' trade and that he would struggle at the level. He signed mid year.... and still wanted to leave, why would that make fans or the club any more determined to play hardball with him? even after going home and through a process and signing on, he still collapsed in a heap and wanted to leave, your first point emphasis's how much of a terrible position we were in and only proves further that we did OK out of a bad situation. .

also.. we need Cameron for next year, we also need to consider how desperate he is to join us. when good players ask to come to your club you make it happen, we could have waited for Beams too, Adelaide could have waited for Gibbs - we didn't even pay that far over for Gods sake.

He kicked 29 goals this year whilst not enjoying his football. People say that's a bad return as it was in a good side, how about the fact he had to share supply with arguably one of the best forward lines of the modern era?

He had a poor finish to the season, but what I have seen most from Crows supporters is an outpouring of disappointment and admiration for him with posts like 'You have gotten yourselves a good one there guys' etc etc.
Click to expand...

Let’s just for a second look at Rockliff and Cameron as a direct swap through Rockliffs compo pick. That would mean we down graded pick 12 to 15 to get Dogs to take Schache off our hands.


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Can Schache show considerable development in those areas? Probably, if his head is right. (Other than that I'm not going to make - and haven't made - comments on the state of his emotions - that's completely out of my knowledge)

Will Schache be as good as Franklin? Probably not. Franklin is a one in a generation key posiiton forward.

But even if Schache develops into say 75% of the player Franklin is / has been, he'll be a very handy key position forward for his club over a number of years.[/QUOTE]

I respect your analysis RoyLion, though I feel as if Franklin had Josh covered in every physical aspect when drafted. Whilst he couldn't do a chin-up upon arriving at the Hawks, his athleticism was clear. He won't achieve 75 per cent of what Franklin has - who is heading towards 1,000 goals in an era where as a FF 500 is great going. In fact, I would wager he won't achieve 40 per cent of Franklin's output - and that is without taking into account Schache's state of emotions which I too don't profess to know anything about.

I'll admit to a certain level of disdain towards the situation regarding Schache as I, like many, am annoyed that we again find ourselves losing a top 10 pick for unders inside two years (though respect that it was the best outcome we could have achieved given the circumstances). We need to start getting these selections right - Schache, Aish, Longer, Polec etc. have proved to be costly mistakes. Whilst Fagan and co have made significant improvements, they will only be able to take us so far unless we can address this issue and bring in some elite talent to assist the likes of Hipwood and Andrews who show plenty. Melbourne are an example of a club that has turned around their drafting success in recent years - I wonder if they made any significant changes to their strategy?
 
LongLion said:
Sounds like spin to me. ;) Personally I'm confident we are on the right track. We have some quality young players coming through, good coaching team and some football nouce at the top end that has been missing for a long time.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm very pessimistic about the trades we just bent over for, but other than that, I'm optimistic...

The kids seemed to pick up on Fagan's gameplan during the second half of the year. The gameplan seems to work as well. Morale seems high. I also credit Fagan with the recruitment of Hodgey, which should help develop our onfield leaders.

On Noble's side, I think the football department seems to be running well. That we didn't overpay Rocky just to keep him here is probably a good step. Contracts seem to be looking better. The word around the place is that the actual football department is running more effectively. That said, he has a habit of getting poor value for trades, or overpaying for different players. He's got skills, but that doesn't appear to be one of them.

Our drafting and coaching are getting us two steps forward, but I genuinely believe overpaying for Cameron and giving away Schache for nothing is a big step back. I think it drags out our rebuild, and lowers our ceiling. Honestly, if Noble stayed home yesterday and we did zero trades, I think we'd be better off as a club. Cameron can arrive next year, and chance it with Schache, even if it's a long shot. His value couldn't go much lower.

Adelaide got lucky on a few selections, but they also don't have the same inherent problems that Brisbane do. They have money, they have support, and they have plenty of local talent wanting to come home. We are an AFL outpost with no money and minimal talent wanting to come home. I just hope we end up with 2 steps forward being enough to counteract our trade periods.
 
13Beast said:
So what changed? Watching that Bulldogs clip of Schache, sounds like he had thrown in the towel at the Lions a LONG LONG time ago. Bizarre watching him thank the Lions (seemed genuine), but staring at the ground as he said it the whole time.
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Read into this what you will, but according to eye body language experts looking down and to the right when talking indicates you're accessing feelings.

His inability to continue looking directly at the camera or at whoever was holding the mic when talking specifically about the Lions could very well be a genuine and unplanned reaction, whether it's a guilt thing, or just genuine relief remembering he's no longer with a club in another state...
 
Back2Back2Back said:
Read into this what you will, but according to eye body language experts looking down and to the right when talking indicates you're accessing feelings.

His inability to continue looking directly at the camera or at whoever was holding the mic when talking specifically about the Lions could very well be a genuine and unplanned reaction, whether it's a guilt thing, or just genuine relief remembering he's no longer with a club in another state...
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Down is usually shame.
Up and left is theoretically accessing memory. Up and right is theoretically accessing creative regions. That said, it's fairly pseudosciency.
 
The trade master-stroke by Nobel was the mid year resigning, not what was done in the last 10 days.

It clearly said we value him to other teams and set the scene for the 'we will keep him if we don't get the right price' trade week mantra but I'd be gob smacked if it wasn't already decided that they would move him on.

Presented it as an act of careing (which it was - totally eased the pressure) but still has the ring of great strategic thinking and acting.

I think we are in safe hands.
 

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The longer this settles the more its left a sour taste. Picks 25 and 40 isnt a good deal for someone who is shaping up as a superstar. ****ing wish these pussies would say they want their mommas breast by their side every step of the way.
 
We need Mulder and Scully doing our pre draft interviews


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Milux said:
The longer this settles the more its left a sour taste. Picks 25 and 40 isnt a good deal for someone who is shaping up as a superstar. ******* wish these pussies would say they want their mommas breast by their side every step of the way.
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Shaping up as a superstar? I'll give MY left nut if he ever kicks more than 75 goals in a season.
 
Capitano_Cotch said:
Think you guys actually did quite well in the trade period.
Charlie Cameron is a jet.
I got blasted on here the other day for suggesting Pick 17 + Miles for Schache and I think that would have been a better deal than what you got from the dogs but good on you for granting the kid his wish to be down with family down in Victoria.
Would have liked Schache at the Tigs because we are desperate for a key forward.
All the best for 2018
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The irony is we ended up with your pick 15 anyway
 
You raise a good point pod17 about Melbourne but I don't believe they ever had to much of a problem in terms of losing top end talent (except Scully of the top of my head, and correct me further if i'm wrong) but their biggest problem seemed to be more in terms of their development, IMO anyway.

Our issue is for whatever reason and i'm sure it's numerous, but whatever it is we can't keep kids that are drafted early on in the draft. The stat pulpdriver stated earlier shows this has been a problem since our premiership years.
 
Milux said:
The longer this settles the more its left a sour taste. Picks 25 and 40 isnt a good deal for someone who is shaping up as a superstar. ******* wish these pussies would say they want their mommas breast by their side every step of the way.
Click to expand...

Shaping up as a superstar, wow.
 
Squizz89 said:
You raise a good point pod17 about Melbourne but I don't believe they ever had to much of a problem in terms of losing top end talent (except Scully of the top of my head, and correct me further if i'm wrong) but their biggest problem seemed to be more in terms of their development, IMO anyway.

Our issue is for whatever reason and i'm sure it's numerous, but whatever it is we can't keep kids that are drafted early on in the draft. The stat pulpdriver stated earlier shows this has been a problem since our premiership years.
Click to expand...

You are right, they have been fairly immune to losing their young draftees to other clubs. I hadn't seen the exact statistics around our retention of top picks, but off the top of my head I thought it was poor. My thinking around Melbourne was that they have gone someway to addressing the issue they had in the late 00's/early 10's around the identification of top end talent as evidenced by their recent drafts.

It's only a hunch, but I've been annoyed by our apparent propensity to take the more speculative option when faced with a decision on draftees. Leuenberger versus Selwood, Polec versus Heppell, Longer versus ANYONE etc. That opinion is aided by the benefit of hindsight, but it doesn't make for good reading. What's frustrating is that our later draftees have been the equal of any club - yet somehow we struggle with that top end. Perplexing.
 
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