Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[Deadly Darcy]

So let's get this straight. A club like ours should employ strict taskmasters who run a tight ship, aren't afraid to dump on players, punish those who don't come up to scratch. Never mind the psychology, or personal development, building relationships and trust. Would this get the best out of our players, or would their confidence take a battering? What would the list turnover look like? Would good players be knocking at our door to be traded for?

I think there is a middle ground between reading French poetry and getting the team behind you as a father figure and getting a rod and stick out and roaring at people.

I’d like a coach who can lead through absolute resolution and who can demand results as they’ve done it themselves. Joel Selwood would be worth a try if he was up for it (I’m pretty sure he has other things going on). We don’t need another Macca to drive the club apart but we do need to get a resolute leader, ideally one who has won premierships, in the door. Fresh ideas would be amazing……

 

[CarnTheScray]

Don’t disagree with much of your take , but to include Bramble as a problem I can’t agree on.
May not have been great last night , but has been a super addition in a position we literally have no one else on the list to fill it with ?

I didn’t say he shouldn’t be playing. I said only one of the mentioned should be playing. He’d probably be the one I pick out of those named.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Sorry DRU but that’s a ridiculous over simplification.

Of course it is. I was wondering what type of approach was felt to be required, if Lade and Spangler are too “friendly” with the players. If that is in fact “the problem”.

 

[stefcep]

Mitchell set his club's objective to be playing in the last Saurday in September. What is our clubs objective? Does anyone know?

We've saw what the future looks like last night. Hawthorn is a young team and they will get even better. We will need to beat them or someone like them. We are miles away from doing that now, let alone when they get better. We know what Beveridge can do but that was 8 years ago. The game has moved past him.

The coach has to go. A new approach is needed.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Mitchell set his club's objective to be playing in the last Saurday in September. What is our clubs objective? Does anyone know?

We've saw what the future looks like last night. Hawthorn is a young team and they will get even better. We will need to beat them or someone like them. We are miles away from doing that now, let alone when they get better. We know want Beveridge can do but that was 8 years ago. The game has moved past him.

The coach has to go. A new approach is needed.

They were looking to improve before last night securing Battle and Barrass.

The difference between ruthless and soft.

 

[BarryMorgan]

I sat in the AFL Members area last night surrounded by Hawks supporters who were amazed at how soft we were. I was embarrassed because they were 100% correct - we were bullied and humiliated in the contest all over the ground. This keeps happening in big games and must stop. Bevo isn't capable of preventing these capitulations.

Besides Libba, we have no-one with any mongrel in them whatsoever

 

[Mutt]

Besides Libba, we have no-one with any mongrel in them whatsoever

And Libba was manhandled and belted all night. None of our bigger-bodied players imposed themselves in any way (with the possible exception of Rory Lobb.) We had no presence when it got tough.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The players should be ashamed of themselves but this is largely on the head of the coach..

Yes they should.

So... explain to me how Beveridge is responsible for what unfolded when across the board and even our more skilled players like Ed Richards were making fundamental skill errors whenever pressure was applied to or when they are being tagged out of the game. As The Bont was for much off the game.

These issues aren't apparent when we are running on top of the ground and dominating sides that allow us to.

Im guessing that the messaging was much the same in both cases.

Bevo is responsible for getting the team ready.

Sure, and he got the team up and about and ready enough for them to have a relatively comfortable lead at qtr time.

Bevo and Hinkley are in large part responsible for the piss poor performances of their teams in finals.

C'mon. It's fine to have had your fill of Beveridge. But, It's hard to take seriously anybody who thinks the finals record of a premiership winning coach is in anyway analogous with a guy who has never gone close to reaching one let alone two Grand Finals. But sure build your argument out of straw if you wish.

Last night was on the playing groups (especially the midfield) inability to cope with, push back against or apply sustained pressure when it counts. And given last night was an elimination final it would be pretty asinine to suggest that pressure wouldn't have been a big factor in any pre-game messaging and the core focus of the players as the huddled just prior to the first bounce of the game. Beveridge can only do so much when his charges are in the middle of completely bottling it against a side that they are structurally not well matched against.

People love to fall back on and moan after a loss about Beveridge not having a magical Plan-B. And then they moan about why The Bont was sitting in the f50 for extended periods. Or Why Naughton spent a few minutes in the ruck. Without ever considering the wider context as to why these things were happening. They do this because it isn't convenient to their narrative that the blame for a loss always begins and ends with the coach. And that the flaws inherent in this side will just be wiped away with a shiny new one.

 

[Mutt]

Yes they should.

So... explain to me how Beveridge is responsible for what unfolded when across the board and even our more skilled players like Ed Richards were making fundamental skill errors whenever pressure was applied to or when they are being tagged out of the game. As The Bont was for much off the game.

These issues aren't apparent when we are running on top of the ground and dominating sides that allow us to.

Im guessing that the messaging was much the same in both cases.



Sure, and he got the team up and about and ready enough for them to have a relatively comfortable lead at qtr time.



C'mon. It's fine to have had your fill of Beveridge. But, It's hard to take seriously anybody who thinks the finals record of a premiership winning coach is in anyway analogous with a guy who has never gone close to reaching one let alone two Grand Finals. But sure build your argument out of straw if you wish.

Last night was on the playing groups (especially the midfield) inability to cope with, push back against or apply sustained pressure when it counts. And given last night was an elimination final it would be pretty asinine to suggest that pressure wouldn't have been a big factor in any pre-game messaging and the core focus of the players as the huddled just prior to the first bounce of the game. Beveridge can only do so much when his charges are in the middle of completely bottling it against a side that they are structurally not well matched against.

People love to fall back on and moan after a loss about Beveridge not having a magical Plan-B. And then they moan about why The Bont was sitting in the f50 for extended periods. Or Why Naughton spent a few minutes in the ruck. Without ever considering the wider context as to why these things were happening. They do this because it isn't convenient to their narrative that the blame for a loss always begins and ends with the coach. And that the flaws inherent in this side will just be wiped away with a shiny new one.

I've explained my position. You may not agree but that's just too bad.

And don't create straw man arguments.

 

[VitalDread]

Not really from my normal talks

So take this one with the massive massive grain of salt

-It's all in Bevo court for next year
-Dogs will want to set up a succession plan if he remains next year
-Dogs would offer a senior admin role for Bevo once he's finished up coaching

Keep an eye on this one

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Keep an eye on this one

Don't love the idea of succession plans. Obviously it's worked well with the Roos led ones because he was actually finished with coaching and was ready to move on. The Malthouse and Clarkson ones were quite ugly and not great ways for great coaches to leave.

 

[RWnBluey]

Keep an eye on this one

Appreciate the info but couldn’t get on board with this. Having a succession plan is effectively acknowledging he’s no longer the man for the job moving forward so what’s the point in delaying an additional 12 months? Either back him in or move him on.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Appreciate the info but couldn’t get on board this. Having a succession plan is effectively acknowledging he’s no longer the man for the job moving forward so what’s the point in delaying an additional 12 months? Either back him in or move him on.

Personally I would prefer a clean break when the time comes.

 

[Proffessor]

Be careful of over reactions to finals losses.

The glaring example of Adelaide’s misguided reaction to its GF loss to Richmond which subsequently ripped the club apart.

We lost a final, to a team that played very well on a night when we didn’t put our best foot forward.
But if you take the emotion out of it.
We played the game on their home ground, in conditions that suited their style of play more than ours, and also they got favourable treatment from the umpires which assisted them in combating our strengths.

It was not a loss like Port’s on Thursday where the players stopped trying after they were massively outclassed.

It’s simply time to reassess and reload for next year.

Hawthorn were also our worst match up in terms of game style, so over reacting to losing to them (again) would really be foolish and self destructive.

A few players were indeed found wanting under the spotlight, so it’s also time to assess whether they need to be developed more or might need to be replaced. A few tweaks, not a tantrum is the required reaction.

We aren’t far away, the future is still bright.

If frustrated fans and the club want to do something helpful then they should start shouting to the roof tops about the unjust biased application of the rules in last night’s game. Behind the scenes at least if not in public.

People should be posing videos of Hawthorn players constantly holding and illegally interfering with Bulldog players, and getting away with it.

Then contrast these instances with Bulldog players getting penalised for something similar.

We need to be more resilient sure but we must also do as much as we can to stop the ridiculous umpiring treatment which derailed us in multiple games this year, from occurring again in future. No club can withstand such poor treatment in such an even competition, and still expect to win.

 

[dogwatch]

Be careful of over reactions to finals losses.

The glaring example of Adelaide’s misguided reaction to its GF loss to Richmond which subsequently ripped the club apart.

We lost a final, to a team that played very well on a night when we didn’t put our best foot forward.
But if you take the emotion out of it.
We played the game on their home ground, in conditions that suited their style of play more than ours, and also they got favourable treatment from the umpires which assisted them in combating our strengths.

It was not a loss like Port’s on Thursday where the players stopped trying after they were massively outclassed.

It’s simply time to reassess and reload for next year.

Hawthorn were also our worst match up in terms of game style, so over reacting to losing to them (again) would really be foolish and self destructive.

A few players were indeed found wanting under the spotlight, so it’s also time to assess whether they need to be developed more or might need to be replaced. A few tweaks, not a tantrum is the required reaction.

We aren’t far away, the future is still bright.

If frustrated fans and the club want to do something helpful then they should start shouting to the roof tops about the unjust biased application of the rules in last night’s game. Behind the scenes at least if not in public.

People should be posing videos of Hawthorn players constantly holding and illegally interfering with Bulldog players, and getting away with it.

Then contrast these instances with Bulldog players getting penalised for something similar.

We need to be more resilient sure but we must also do as much as we can to stop the ridiculous umpiring treatment which derailed us in multiple games this year, from occurring again in future. No club can withstand such poor treatment in such an even competition, and still expect to win.

Umpires had nothing to do with who won last night.

Sure we got some dodgy decisions (who doesn't?) but to focus on that is to do a Sydney and wilfully ignore the fact that we were comprehensively outplayed on the big stage.

We would do ourselves no favours mounting a campaign to the media and the AFL over a handful of dubious decisions.

And we need to stop saying "oh, it's only one bad game". I keep hearing that. Every September and after every inexplicable implosion in an important game. The sooner we are honest with ourselves the sooner we can become the club that wins finals.

 

[LovelyPuppy]

I’m interested as to what you think the Board should do? Review? Move to change now? If you were presiding over this, what would you do?

 

[mitch hahn premium light]

Yes they should.

So... explain to me how Beveridge is responsible for what unfolded when across the board and even our more skilled players like Ed Richards were making fundamental skill errors whenever pressure was applied to or when they are being tagged out of the game. As The Bont was for much off the game.

These issues aren't apparent when we are running on top of the ground and dominating sides that allow us to.

Im guessing that the messaging was much the same in both cases.



Sure, and he got the team up and about and ready enough for them to have a relatively comfortable lead at qtr time.



C'mon. It's fine to have had your fill of Beveridge. But, It's hard to take seriously anybody who thinks the finals record of a premiership winning coach is in anyway analogous with a guy who has never gone close to reaching one let alone two Grand Finals. But sure build your argument out of straw if you wish.

Last night was on the playing groups (especially the midfield) inability to cope with, push back against or apply sustained pressure when it counts. And given last night was an elimination final it would be pretty asinine to suggest that pressure wouldn't have been a big factor in any pre-game messaging and the core focus of the players as the huddled just prior to the first bounce of the game. Beveridge can only do so much when his charges are in the middle of completely bottling it against a side that they are structurally not well matched against.

People love to fall back on and moan after a loss about Beveridge not having a magical Plan-B. And then they moan about why The Bont was sitting in the f50 for extended periods. Or Why Naughton spent a few minutes in the ruck. Without ever considering the wider context as to why these things were happening. They do this because it isn't convenient to their narrative that the blame for a loss always begins and ends with the coach. And that the flaws inherent in this side will just be wiped away with a shiny new one.

I’m looking for consistency, the sort that lands you a top 4 finish. I haven’t seen it with this coach. It’s his Achilles heel. 10 years in it’s not going to change.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I don’t blame the umpires but we had seven free kicks paid against us in the first five minutes - pointed out by the commentators. That had to disrupt whatever momentum we were trying to build on. These things get to a point where you are constantly trying to recover and catch up, rather than control the game. All credit to the Hawks for capitalising on the multiple opportunities they were on the receiving end of, early in the game, and being able to go on with it.

 

[RWnBluey]

Be careful of over reactions to finals losses.

The glaring example of Adelaide’s misguided reaction to its GF loss to Richmond which subsequently ripped the club apart.

We lost a final, to a team that played very well on a night when we didn’t put our best foot forward.
But if you take the emotion out of it.
We played the game on their home ground, in conditions that suited their style of play more than ours, and also they got favourable treatment from the umpires which assisted them in combating our strengths.

It was not a loss like Port’s on Thursday where the players stopped trying after they were massively outclassed.

It’s simply time to reassess and reload for next year.

Hawthorn were also our worst match up in terms of game style, so over reacting to losing to them (again) would really be foolish and self destructive.

A few players were indeed found wanting under the spotlight, so it’s also time to assess whether they need to be developed more or might need to be replaced. A few tweaks, not a tantrum is the required reaction.

We aren’t far away, the future is still bright.

If frustrated fans and the club want to do something helpful then they should start shouting to the roof tops about the unjust biased application of the rules in last night’s game. Behind the scenes at least if not in public.

People should be posing videos of Hawthorn players constantly holding and illegally interfering with Bulldog players, and getting away with it.

Then contrast these instances with Bulldog players getting penalised for something similar.

We need to be more resilient sure but we must also do as much as we can to stop the ridiculous umpiring treatment which derailed us in multiple games this year, from occurring again in future. No club can withstand such poor treatment in such an even competition, and still expect to win.

Sorry mate you lost me at blaming the umps

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I’m interested as to what you think the Board should do? Review? Move to change now? If you were presiding over this, what would you do?

For goodness sake, none of us has the slightest clue how the internal workings of the club function. It would be a entirely different perspective from the fans.

 

[LovelyPuppy]

I guess there tired of hearing Bevos story lines and stopped listening to him . Not showing up is a coaching issue and yes our top players had a stinker and take portion of the blame however I don’t think Bevo and his team showed up last night.
Time for a change that we know won’t happen .

I understand the frustration. But do you think it’s as simple as changing one key personnel? Genuine question, what is the change plan and the best way to implement that?

 

[LovelyPuppy]

For goodness sake, none of us has the slightest clue how the internal workings of the club function. It would be an entirely different perspective from the fans.

Fair enough. But as thoughtful and informed people if you are in charge what would the priorities be to shift our performance ?

 

[LovelyPuppy]

Very debatable.
Hawthorn have come from the clouds in the back end of this season. Back in May nobody was looking to build a list to go up against them. Hawthorn are younger, smaller and less experienced, but in six months they have already gone past us. We need to think about why that is so.

TBH I'm not sure what type of list Bevo wants. Even if he had an ideal list in mind I don't think we are ruthless enough to go about getting it. Sam Power is the list manager anyway. In all our history we have never gone out to shape our list strategically and aggressively the way certain other clubs have done (Geelong, Carlton and Hawthorn come to mind). We have tended to accept our lot, good or bad, and try to make do with opportunistic deals (Treloar). We rarely get big names or if we do they are at the tail end of their career (Hall, Aker, Cloke). The only really big move (Tom Boyd) came in response to a crisis that nearly tore the club apart.

It's hard to know how much say Bevo has in list decisions (acquisitions, departures, contract renewals) but once the list is assembled each year it's his job to shape them into a flag winning combination. That's what we should be discussing.

FWIW here's the sides comparison from tonight.

View attachment 2103281

 

[LovelyPuppy]

What is there to learn from the governance, list and coaching practices of hawthorn? Anything for us?

 

[JTCWBFC]

What is there to learn from the governance, list and coaching practices of hawthorn? Anything for us?

Grow a pair