Coach Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[Unorth]

IMO it’s not about questioning Bev’s relationships with the players. Or most of them.

Getting the players to respect and want to play for you is part of the equation. No doubt about that. And the days of the hard arse psycho coach are over.

But what I question is how we seem to be assessing most of his tenure. Are these the results we’re okay with? I’ve seen a couple of comments around here associating aspirations of success with anything the view that only a premiership is a success. Which I don’t think is the case for anyone - we all know that only one team wins it each year and it doesn’t mean the season is a “failure” for seventeen clubs.

But the serious clubs - which I don’t think we are - expect success (Hawks, Cats, Swans) without acting irrationally to achieve it (Essendon).

Sam Mitchell stated a flag was the expectation - despite their inexperience. They played like it. Our guys played like it was a 9-5 they couldnt wait to clock out of with full knowledge they wouldn’t be taken to task on what happened. See 2021 GF.

Maybe Bevo would be better suited to some kind of player welfare role. I don’t think tactically he ever recovered from a few rule changes the afl put upon him. Most of what we were doing in the back half of the system was game planning around Tim being wet lettuce in the ruck and winning back possession, which was always playing with fire.

2-5 elimination final record with one flag 8 years ago shouldn’t be enough to guarantee Bevo a job for life. It can get very cult of personality with how we treat him because he brought us our first premiership in decades.

Choking a 40 point lead, missing the 8 then getting smacked by the hawks in the way we did - Meek smashing English, Sicily and Newcombe unaccounted etc - it’s all pretty evident we’ve hit our ceiling with the coaching. The Hawks get us the same way almost every time. Getting beat by what you’re familiar with, with 2 weeks preparation is really a bad reflection. Not saying that it wasn’t prepared for (obviously) - but what preparations were made, were ****ing shit.

I don’t expect us to do much going into next season, it isn’t in the clubs nature. What we’ve seen the last few years is what we’re okay with. Which sucks because we support the club and pay for memberships under the assumption we’re going to watch a team that at least plays with actual competitive ambition - not making up the numbers and patting themselves on the back for merely turning up, or selling thousands of fake memberships.

 

[stefcep]

Umpires had nothing to do with who won last night.

Sure we got some dodgy decisions (who doesn't?) but to focus on that is to do a Sydney and wilfully ignore the fact that we were comprehensively outplayed on the big stage.

We would do ourselves no favours mounting a campaign to the media and the AFL over a handful of dubious decisions.

And we need to stop saying "oh, it's only one bad game". I keep hearing that. Every September and after every inexplicable implosion in an important game. The sooner we are honest with ourselves the sooner we can become the club that wins finals.

Its as much as the calls as the non-calls

We don;t need to mount a campaign, just an email seeking clarification on the intrepretation of the rules.

My take on it is that Hawthorn are coached to play on the edge of the rules. Even as simple as stealing a metre or so on the mark. They do it every.single.time.

The better team won but don't kid yourself- the AFL is all about the money and the TV ratings. It was our home game- but was played on their home ground!

Hawthorn is back! will be the narrative of these finals (much like we were in 2016). They will get away with alot more in the enxt few weeks.

 

[Freshwater]

Friend who went to the game mentioned Jamarra’s poor body language during the game

I made a comment a few weeks back about one of Jamarra’s easy misses that he didn’t care enough. Now the miss that afternoon against Port Adelaide was that easy a shot that we would have been ‘dragged’ in the FDFL juniors for missing 15 metres out. A few of us were accused of …well you know the types on here. Anyway because he isn’t allowed to be fairly criticised, it continues, and we get what we got on Friday night.
Jamarra is definitely not the only reason we lost, but the lack of maturity he showed out there against younger rivals was brutally evident to the football world. We (collectively) exposed him like a lamb to the slaughter, because we haven’t been hard enough on him when he has those efforts, like he does, throughout the season.

 

[Bulldogger]

For what it’s worth, people think that Bevo doesn’t rate the ruck, but he absolutely hated getting smashed there back in 2020 (the Dunkley era). He just wouldn’t pick someone who didn’t offer anything around the ground.

We’ve obviously decided to back Tim in, but I think Darcy offers quite a lot as support and will moreso as he fills out.

I was very worried about our midfield before this season, but the Ed move worked and Gags and Sanders got their start. I hope we do more via trade.

It's not that he "doesn't rate the ruck". The problem is he clearly doesn't rate strong bodied, physical ruckmen. He's got this ridiculous idea that a mobile ruckman will always provide more value for the team than a slower, stronger unit through the stoppages. He's been proven wrong on this for 10 years now and he still refuses to change.

In 2015 he set the precedent dropping Will Minson to give Ayce Cordy a run in the ruck.
Will Minson represents the exact kind of ruckman Beveridge has a distaste for: physically imposing, aggressive, but not very mobile or effective up forward.

It also just so happens this exact type of ruckman has proven to be fairly successful in the last 8 years, AKA since they changed the rules to disallow third man up. Richmond won three flags with Nankervis playing in the ruck, a strong, slow, aggressive ruckman- the prototype of what Beveridge doesn't like. Geelong won it with Rhys Stanley, who isn't the quickest, is useless up forward, but played his role effectively. Even rucks like Max Gawn and Darcy Cameron, while they certainly have mobility, are also strong units who can physically compete with anyone.

You know what else this type of ruckman does? They destroy Tim English.
Anyone wonder why after picking up four big wins against Carlton, Geelong, Sydney and Melbourne, our midfield suddenly gets dismantled by Adelaide's midfield? It felt like all their clearances were easy and fast, whereas we were always on the back foot and working hard for ours. It probably had something to do with Reily O'Brien picking up a massive 58 hitouts, just 5 short of his personal best which he set against us last year.
Yeah English will have good games now and then where he outruns his opponent, and statistically he'll look good, but time after time he gets smashed in the big games, especially finals where the physicality is cranked up. Was completely and utterly hopeless against Lloyd Meek in the final against Hawthorn, utterly smashed to oblivion in every metric. Smashed in the 2022 elimination final by Darcy and Lobb. Smashed in the 2021 Grand Final by Gawn and Jackson. Smashed in the 2020 Elimination Final by Ryder and Marshall. It. Never. Ends.

In the last 6 years under Up-and-Down Beveridge, do you want to know the most consistent period we've had? It was the start of the 2021 season where we won our opening 6 games in a row. We looked like a genuine contender and primed for a top 4 position. It is the only time we have ever won 6 in a row under Beveridge.
Do you want to know what this correlates with? Stefan Martin. As you say, we were getting smashed in the ruck in 2020 where the coach in his infinite wisdom was playing Dunkley and Cordy there, so our list management made an unprecedented decision to recruit a slow, physical, 34 year old discard from Brisbane. Was Stefan Martin the best ruckman? No, but he provided a strong physical presence, which lo and behold, translated into consistency through the middle. Suddenly our gun midfield were now able to play to the best of their ability and we started dominating at the stoppages. Then Martin got injured in our first loss that year to Richmond, we became and up-and-down team again and have been ever since. Martin only played 7 more games for the remainder of his career and was clearly finished.

Now with all that in mind, you would think the barest minimum of common sense would suggest that maybe a strong, physical ruckman is something we should look to bring in... but of course, Beveridge is a coach with a strong distaste for common sense. Whatever benefits Martin brought to the team in 2021 were clearly beyond his understanding and for the next three years he has been absolutely steadfast in utilizing English as the #1 ruckman. No amount of English smashings in big games has changed his mind, and never will.

Nothing ever changes under Beveridge.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

I made a comment a few weeks back about one of Jamarra’s easy misses that he didn’t care enough. Now the miss that afternoon against Port Adelaide was that easy a shot that we would have been ‘dragged’ in the FDFL juniors for missing 15 metres out. A few of us were accused of …well you know the types on here. Anyway because he isn’t allowed to be fairly criticised, it continues, and we get what we got on Friday night.
Jamarra is definitely not the only reason we lost, but the lack of maturity he showed out there against younger rivals was brutally evident to the football world. We (collectively) exposed him like a lamb to the slaughter, because we haven’t been hard enough on him when he has those efforts, like he does, throughout the season.

This board has called out his body language all season but he plays one or two games like vs Sydney and its suddenly forgiven and called a hater by a loud minority here. It’s actually annoying. Bad habits dont disapear after a few games. it’s fair criticism. Richo got the same even back then

Goal kicking is the entire club that needs to improve.

 

[Anja_Nees]

This board has called out his body language all season but he plays one or two games like vs Sydney and its suddenly forgiven and called a hater by a loud minority here. It’s actually annoying. Bad habits dont disapear after a few games. it’s fair criticism. Richo got the same even back then

Goal kicking is the entire club that needs to improve.

Being fair to Jamarra he was mostly good over a six week stretch and I thought he had turned the corner.

But you’re right that there is over the top defence of him on these boards. I remember how people used to be about players like Patrick Bowden when they had an off day. None got the free pass Jamarra has had at times.

When he’s on he flies for everything, gets involved at ground level and kicks with confidence but he’s a liability when he’s not on. I hope it’s a fitness or maturity thing that’ll change.

 

[fred cook]

We would be third playing port, them 8th playing Brisbane.It’s that fine a margin.

that's the history of Bevo coaching its always a fine a margin.

 

[Bulldogger]

Speaks volumes that while Mitchell has a side flying and up to their ears in the finals, he's already worked his magic and secured the future with two key planks Battle and Barrass for next year.

So you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Meanwhile, we'll just sit on our hands being nice and accepting D grade scraps. What an amateur organisation.

The single biggest difference between Sam Mitchell and Luke Beveridge is humility.

I don't understand where people get this idea that Mitchell is arrogant or has a big ego. Watching his press conferences, he comes across as a very humble man who understands he's in a privileged position. He has admitted he doesn't always get things right, and one example that stands out is the Hawthorn vs Melbourne match earlier in the year, where he instructed the side to play a kick-mark heavy gamestyle that involved a lot of sideways kicking in the back half. It didn't work, it got heavily criticized by the media, but being the humble coach that he is, he took a step back and made some significant changes to the gameplan. Fast forward 24 weeks and his young Hawks are now the hottest-running team in the competition.

Compare and contrast this with Up-and-Down Luke. Before the 2022 season he proclaimed too be starting a footballing revolution, taking inspiration from Che Guevarra, Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Marx. The fruit of this intellectual brain salad was never manning the mark to bypass the stand rule. In round 1, it didn't work. In round 5, it didn't work. Round 10, didn't work. Round 15, didn't work. Elimination final against Fremantle, didn't work. Not once did the thought enter his head to take that step back and re-assess his "footballing revolution". He was convinced he was right and that was that. If any journalist questioned it in the press conference, he would always get snappy at them like the insecure little man he is.

 

[Anja_Nees]

It's not that he "doesn't rate the ruck". The problem is he clearly doesn't rate strong bodied, physical ruckmen. He's got this ridiculous idea that a mobile ruckman will always provide more value for the team than a slower, stronger unit through the stoppages. He's been proven wrong on this for 10 years now and he still refuses to change.

In 2015 he set the precedent dropping Will Minson to give Ayce Cordy a run in the ruck.
Will Minson represents the exact kind of ruckman Beveridge has a distaste for: physically imposing, aggressive, but not very mobile or effective up forward.

It also just so happens this exact type of ruckman has proven to be fairly successful in the last 8 years, AKA since they changed the rules to disallow third man up. Richmond won three flags with Nankervis playing in the ruck, a strong, slow, aggressive ruckman- the prototype of what Beveridge doesn't like. Geelong won it with Rhys Stanley, who isn't the quickest, is useless up forward, but played his role effectively. Even rucks like Max Gawn and Darcy Cameron, while they certainly have mobility, are also strong units who can physically compete with anyone.

You know what else this type of ruckman does? They destroy Tim English.
Anyone wonder why after picking up four big wins against Carlton, Geelong, Sydney and Melbourne, our midfield suddenly gets dismantled by Adelaide's midfield? It felt like all their clearances were easy and fast, whereas we were always on the back foot and working hard for ours. It probably had something to do with Reily O'Brien picking up a massive 58 hitouts, just 5 short of his personal best which he set against us last year.
Yeah English will have good games now and then where he outruns his opponent, and statistically he'll look good, but time after time he gets smashed in the big games, especially finals where the physicality is cranked up. Was completely and utterly hopeless against Lloyd Meek in the final against Hawthorn, utterly smashed to oblivion in every metric. Smashed in the 2022 elimination final by Darcy and Lobb. Smashed in the 2021 Grand Final by Gawn and Jackson. Smashed in the 2020 Elimination Final by Ryder and Marshall. It. Never. Ends.

In the last 6 years under Up-and-Down Beveridge, do you want to know the most consistent period we've had? It was the start of the 2021 season where we won our opening 6 games in a row. We looked like a genuine contender and primed for a top 4 position. It is the only time we have ever won 6 in a row under Beveridge.
Do you want to know what this correlates with? Stefan Martin. As you say, we were getting smashed in the ruck in 2020 where the coach in his infinite wisdom was playing Dunkley and Cordy there, so our list management made an unprecedented decision to recruit a slow, physical, 34 year old discard from Brisbane. Was Stefan Martin the best ruckman? No, but he provided a strong physical presence, which lo and behold, translated into consistency through the middle. Suddenly our gun midfield were now able to play to the best of their ability and we started dominating at the stoppages. Then Martin got injured in our first loss that year to Richmond, we became and up-and-down team again and have been ever since. Martin only played 7 more games for the remainder of his career and was clearly finished.

Now with all that in mind, you would think the barest minimum of common sense would suggest that maybe a strong, physical ruckman is something we should look to bring in... but of course, Beveridge is a coach with a strong distaste for common sense. Whatever benefits Martin brought to the team in 2021 were clearly beyond his understanding and for the next three years he has been absolutely steadfast in utilizing English as the #1 ruckman. No amount of English smashings in big games has changed his mind, and never will.

Nothing ever changes under Beveridge.

Being fair to Bevo, he pretty quickly switched to Roughead, which worked well for a while. His issue in the end was that he wasn’t tall enough and they got rid of third man up. He competed well and was good around the ground.

With English locked in for five years we basically need to hope that Darcy, who has some mongrel, bulks up and becomes a credible alternative to switch to when English is getting hammered.

 

[Bulldogger]

Being fair to Bevo, he pretty quickly switched to Roughead, which worked well for a while. His issue in the end was that he wasn’t tall enough and they got rid of third man up. He competed well and was good around the ground.

With English locked in for five years we basically need to hope that Darcy, who has some mongrel, bulks up and becomes a credible alternative to switch to when English is getting hammered.

Why should Darcy have to bulk up? One of his best traits is his mobility for a player of his height, which can be extremely well-utilized for his forward craft.

If anything, English should be the one to bulk up, because his #1 ruck role benefits the most from extra weight and physical strength. Of course, the reason this hasn't happened and will never happen is because Beveridge himself would put a stop to it.

Nothing will change while Beveridge is the coach, it is as simple as that. He doesn't like slow physical ruckman, refuses to accept the realities of what the 2017 ruck rule changes entail and has zero humility.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

The last thing we need is conjecture all season on Bevo's future. What I would like to see is a clear statement from Bevo and club.

Something like Bevo is our coach for 2025 and the club and Bevo have agreed to make a decision based on the dogs performance in 2025. The club is celebrating 100 years participation and Bevo is our longest serving and best performing coach in our history. We are looking forward to a successful 2025 season.

Then it is up to Bevo to get the results early and stop the media speculation.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Why should Darcy have to bulk up? One of his best traits is his mobility for a player of his height, which can be extremely well-utilized for his forward craft.

If anything, English should be the one to bulk up, because his #1 ruck role benefits the most from extra weight and physical strength. Of course, the reason this hasn't happened and will never happen is because Beveridge himself would put a stop to it.

Nothing will change while Beveridge is the coach, it is as simple as that. He doesn't like slow physical ruckman, refuses to accept the realities of what the 2017 ruck rule changes entail and has zero humility.

Darcy is not going to be the same build he is now at 21 for his entire career.

If you look at Gawn, Mason Cox etc they are still lean but very strong and thicker through the core than they were when they started.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Another slightly weird one - of the last four sides standing in 2021, Geelong have obviously been fine but Port, Melbourne and us have played in a collective 6 finals series and 9 finals and are 0/9.

 

[goodcop badcop]

We rely so heavily on our midfield that when we don't win the ball, our pace gets shown up and we look 2nd rate. Agreed English is the biggest problem here and when he's not on it all goes **** up. I thought we had to roll the dice and play Lobb in the ruck and sub English off after half time. That or play Bont as a genuine inside mid so he could crash a few bodies and provide a bit of chaos. There was just a genuine lack of physicality all night and it all starts in the midfield.

 

[Dogs Rule]

The last thing we need is conjecture all season on Bevo's future. What I would like to see is a clear statement from Bevo and club.

Something like Bevo is our coach for 2025 and the club and Bevo have agreed to make a decision based on the dogs performance in 2025. The club is celebrating 100 years participation and Bevo is our longest serving and best performing coach in our history. We are looking forward to a successful 2025 season.

Then it is up to Bevo to get the results early on I'm and stop the media speculation.

Why? Beveridge should be uncomfortable, the whole lot of them should be. On and off field. Not good enough.

 

[The City Boyz]

I made a comment a few weeks back about one of Jamarra’s easy misses that he didn’t care enough. Now the miss that afternoon against Port Adelaide was that easy a shot that we would have been ‘dragged’ in the FDFL juniors for missing 15 metres out. A few of us were accused of …well you know the types on here. Anyway because he isn’t allowed to be fairly criticised, it continues, and we get what we got on Friday night.
Jamarra is definitely not the only reason we lost, but the lack of maturity he showed out there against younger rivals was brutally evident to the football world. We (collectively) exposed him like a lamb to the slaughter, because we haven’t been hard enough on him when he has those efforts, like he does, throughout the season.

I'm fairly confident it's a performance anxiety/pressure issue - not dissimilar to the way Kyrgios drops his bundle when things aren't going his way on the court

Would be looking at setting him up with a psychologist over the off season

 

[F6Typhoon]

Good players don't always make good coaches. I am also against former players being part of any coaching or development team, yes that includes Boyd and Gia. I feel we need entirely fresh voices, and not a club protected, fan favorite, boys club kind of thing. Or anyone who has been a part of Bevo as a player, or former assistant.

We also need some hard love on the team to push the best out of them. Bob strikes me as someone who would rather give you a cuddle, than tell you how it is.

Hence why the FIRST to go must be Grant!

 

[Libbaaaa]

We will be under the most pressure of any club next season and rightfully so.

 

[adammonerz]

Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

gone

 

[hutchy31]

The last thing we need is conjecture all season on Bevo's future. What I would like to see is a clear statement from Bevo and club.

Something like Bevo is our coach for 2025 and the club and Bevo have agreed to make a decision based on the dogs performance in 2025. The club is celebrating 100 years participation and Bevo is our longest serving and best performing coach in our history. We are looking forward to a successful 2025 season.

Then it is up to Bevo to get the results early and stop the media speculation.

I don’t necessarily disagree on the core point here, but the media will make the club play the expectation/pass mark game all year.

Is top 4 a pass? Winning a final? Getting to a PF?

It’s why teams either let the coach go or extend them a year early.

I’d be letting Bevo go this offseason, others would extend him for another 2-3 years. There’s an argument that no matter which one of these you prefer, it’s better for the club that at least one direction is selected.

 

[BarryMorgan]

Bailey Smith gone

SHOCK.

 

[Dogs Rule]

We will be under the most pressure of any club next season and rightfully so.

Good. Turn it right up.

Fresh start is needed and the cult of personality has to end. We've been a failure since 2016 and the 2021 season end f***** us mentally from which we haven't recovered.

Six months to sort it out and get our s*** together.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

We will be under the most pressure of any club next season and rightfully so.

we play the underdog card all too often...

it doesn't work all the time and its not whats needed to win

 

[X_box_X]

Good. Turn it right up.

Fresh start is needed and the cult of personality has to end. We've been a failure since 2016 and the 2021 season end f***** us mentally from which we haven't recovered.

Six months to sort it out and get our s*** together.

Overreaction.

It's amazing some of the stuff you read after a loss. It's NEVER as bad as it seems.

If 2021 mentally effed us, we'd not have won double digit games in the past three years combined. That's a fact. It's hard enough winning matches in a professional environment let alone doing it when you're mentally effed.

Say we're not mentally strong enough, that's fine. But that's on some of the players, not the club.

It's good going to have a positive win/loss record 70% of the time.

Tinkering needed, sure, but posts like this make it seem as though we may as well fill the Whitten Oval with explosives and start from scratch.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Overreaction.

It's amazing some of the stuff you read after a loss. It's NEVER as bad as it seems.

If 2021 mentally effed us, we'd not have won double digit games in the past three years combined. That's a tucked.

Say we're not mentally strong enough, that's fine. But that's on some of the players, not the club.

It's good going to have a positive win/loss record 70% of the time.

Tinkering needed, sure, but posts like this make it seem as though we may as well fill the Whitten Oval with explosives and start from scratch.

Post 2021 we are in no man's land, 8th, 9th, 7th. Either make the leap or blow it up, especially with Tassie on the horizon.