Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[Mojorisin]

Rumour has it that Grant is officially gone.

Replacement coming from within?

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Replacement coming from within?

I hope not. Couldn’t say.

Outside experience always over internal promotions.

 

[Freshwater]

Rumour has it that Grant is officially gone.

It can’t be a rumour and official at the same time.

 

[fred cook]

Replacement coming from within?

Could Egan be his replacement

 

[Anja_Nees]

Could Egan be his replacement

Understand Egan will be also be taking over as president and splitting the roles.

We might take him on the rookie list and he’ll be in the leadership group as well.

 

[Mojorisin]

Could Egan be his replacement

He is one of the ones I'm hearing if we promote from within, also Lade if he leverages external interest.

I hope not. Couldn’t say.

Outside experience always over internal promotions.

100% agree in this case. We need someone with a fresh set of eyes that hasn't got a past with the club. Can't think of anyone that suits the qualification whilst also potentially being interested though.

 

[Munnez]

I urge you to watch rd's 19, 20, 21 and 24.

The high press and pressure is absolutely part of our game. The majority of our problems occur when we can't get the ball forward from the centre.
(I'll argue all day and all night that the bigger, wider MCG is a major disadvantage to our set up as well).

Have to agree that the MCG doesn't suit our set up as a team. We are designed around the fast movement under benign conditions at Marvel and squeezing up on teams when we don't have the ball.
The extra width at the G makes it extremely difficult to shut down transition. And when the midfield doesn't give a yelp impossible task.

We were so off that I would hope it wasn't just lack of mental application, but that a few of them were carrying little niggles that prevented them from performing at their best. Treloar didn't seem to have his usual burst. Bont playing 2 & 3rd quarters mainly forward just doesn't feel right when we were getting slaughtered around the ball.

English was breaking even in the first quarter but became a non entity after that. Possibly that is all we are ever going to get from him in a high pressure game. And if that is the case he needs to be repurposed i.e. Fwd/Ruck or trade him out for a better option.

But for the off chance that the ankle issue raised it's head for English might explain his disappearance to give him a dubious let off for another poor finals performance.

 

[Munnez]

I 100% agree. There seemed to be this emphasis on speed, but pressure and sticking tackles helps win big finals. All year I’ve mentioned that Garcia and West are built for finals and those two didn’t even play in the elimination final? Yet our pressure and tackling was no where near Hawthorn. Both men would have made it closer.
As much as losing last week sucked, we weren’t going to win it this season. Long term that was probably a better result because if the players and coaches aren’t matching and exceeding Sam Mitchell and his players, we are not going anywhere. Hawthorns intensity and dare to run and smothers and tackles are a long way better than ours. We have other better attributes, but in those other areas we must get better.

Our tackling has to get much better if we are serious about contending. Last night just showed what is possible with tackling with intent. Port didn't have their best side out there but they tackled like their life depended on it and stuck some important tackles.

Vastly different contrast to us where Hawks walked through 2 or 3 tacklers to release one of their runners into space which then chopped us up. Dear didn't fire a shot last night but carved us up last week.

Still need some more quick players but we hugely require more intensity with tackling. And comes down to the players wanting to put the work in. Hopefully we may finally see some improvements on that front

 

[Munnez]

It would have helped a lot if we had a ruck that gave us first hands on the ball and clearance. It was like playing with 21 players last week.

Sweet did what Timmy failed to do and that was he created a contest. And actually gave his mids first use of it on a number of occasions. And I would give him the points over Meek.

The rot started in the centre for us and the majority of that has to rest with Timmy. When we have to resort to Naughton rucking we are shot!!

 

[theburst]

Sweet did what Timmy failed to do and that was he created a contest.

so true....what Geelong did to Port, what Port did to Hawks, what we couldn't do to Hawks....cross that white line understanding in a way 'you lose you die'...

biased but we're better than these teams, we should be in the Prelim....but knowing we have to bring that fierce contest every Tap, every Bump, Tackle, Contest, chase hardest you've ever done...then the natural ability will kick-in relecting on the scoreboard

but i think we supporters hurt more than the players
we've stuffed another year

 

[Freshwater]

Last night shows us just why we need to get the top 4 double chance. Port were sh$thouse last week, but earned the right to have another crack, and rebounded great. Most years the top 4 teams who lose week 1 bounce back in week 2.

 

[Proffessor]

One thing I agree with in all of that is the focus on the coach and over looking the playing group. Don't get me wrong, Bevo should be criticised and I'm in the time for change camp. However, that performance was equally on the players. And it started with our senior players, the captain in particular. I love the bont but that was an embarrassing game from our best player - 9 touches in 3 quarters. Libba, treloar, English, Dale the list goes on.

This isn't the first time this group has let us down and folded under heat. Some of it may be mental, but there is a lack fight and physical presence there. I'm all for coaching changes but I'd be taking a hard look at this playing group as well.

Everyone needs to be accountable for their own performance.

Our leaders have generally been sensational over an extended period of time, it's our lesser lights that have struggled to step up when required.

We can't rely on our stars to carry us through every match.

It's a tough competition, sometimes the stars will be down or covered legally or even illegally, and when that occurs, the other role players have to be able to step up and fill the breach.

Our up and down form in recent years is largely due to the fact that on such occasions our lesser lights have been found wanting and shown an inability to carry a heavier load.

That's where our improvement needs to come from.

 

[MrChristo]

Agree with both you and mrchristo. The press, when executed properly is and should be a big part of our game. But like u say, it relies on high pressure and is sticking tackles. If not it creates overlaps and too much space.

But it all again goes back to bevo not having a plan b. We play a press everywhere no matter what. If it doesn’t work, we play the press no matter what cos bevo.

On a ground like the g, everyone needs to be pushing as hard as possible to move the zone/press. 1 lazy person or one missed tackle and it’s cactus.

We need to be more flexible and use man on on bigger grounds occasionally. A it shows who doesn’t want to work and where defensive breakdowns are happening, but b, it’s the ultimate press. Doesn’t create overlap, makes everyone accountable and if we’re fit enough, can smother teams with on ball pressure.


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Fair points, and it's this part of the game that really stands out for Macrae and CD in particular. They don't have the speed to close down space, and even if CD does he's easily outmarked.

For all the talk here about being lost at selection (*), the only thing I would have changed is Poulter in for Daniel, as I think his running ability would have helped us greatly on the bigger ground.

(*) Nearly all of the VFL watchers the week before said West wasn't great and Harmes was one of our best.

(Sorry if this becomes a bit of a mish-mash...)

The MCG. I didn't realise just how few times we play there. Melbourne round 1 losses we usually put down to a 'bogey side' or being unprepared...
...and Richmond, who've been terrible recently of course but still beat us last year (or 22?).
The dimensions clearly mess with our game.
(A poster mentioned that we missed a trick not making the WO at least comparable to the 'G, but there are obviously physical limits that may have prevented that, but I agree, I hope it was at least discussed.
WC have 2 training grounds next to each other, one exactly Optus Stadium, the other the MCG...)

Even from early last week the Hawks were picking 15-20m passes...often what Melbourne do to us...
...and a massive switch early in the 3rd really highlighted that we couldn't cope.

Having said all that, I'm not sure how hard it would be to go from press to 1-1 mid quarter. Even after a goal/restart I think the game is a bit too fluid with interchanges to make it work??

Also, Doggy, you're right about the Geelong game last year. (Obviously! )

 

[yebach]

Fair points, and it's this part of the game that really stands out for Macrae and CD in particular. They don't have the speed to close down space, and even if CD does he's easily outmarked.

For all the talk here about being lost at selection (*), the only thing I would have changed is Poulter in for Daniel, as I think his running ability would have helped us greatly on the bigger ground.

(*) Nearly all of the VFL watchers the week before said West wasn't great and Harmes was one of our best.

(Sorry if this becomes a bit of a mish-mash...)

The MCG. I didn't realise just how few times we play there. Melbourne round 1 losses we usually put down to a 'bogey side' or being unprepared...
...and Richmond, who've been terrible recently of course but still beat us last year (or 22?).
The dimensions clearly mess with our game.
(A poster mentioned that we missed a trick not making the WO at least comparable to the 'G, but there are obviously physical limits that may have prevented that, but I agree, I hope it was at least discussed.
WC have 2 training grounds next to each other, one exactly Optus Stadium, the other the MCG...)

Even from early last week the Hawks were picking 15-20m passes...often what Melbourne do to us...
...and a massive switch early in the 3rd really highlighted that we couldn't cope.

Having said all that, I'm not sure how hard it would be to go from press to 1-1 mid quarter. Even after a goal/restart I think the game is a bit too fluid with interchanges to make it work??

Also, Doggy, you're right about the Geelong game last year. (Obviously! )

So. If we take your view and consider that the MCG isn't favourable to the way we like to play. Surely the coaching group, if they want to win premierships adjusts the way we play to suit the MCG considering that's were everybody has to play come finals.
Also the bigger ground should be a huge advantage for our multi million dollar tall forward line. But as we witnessed it seemed pretty easy for the Hawks to close down our space.

 

[MrChristo]

So. If we take your view and consider that the MCG isn't favourable to the way we like to play. Surely the coaching group, if they want to win premierships adjusts the way we play to suit the MCG considering that's were everybody has to play come finals.
Also the bigger ground should be a huge advantage for our multi million dollar tall forward line. But as we witnessed it seemed pretty easy for the Hawks to close down our space.

Should we somehow train to be better on the dimensions of a bigger ground? Yes, I don't think anyone would disagree, but  how becomes the issue.

We still have to win enough games to make the finals so we can't just abandon our "smaller ground game"...
...(Which is well documented that we were absolutely flying in the 2nd half of the year. Defensively and also ball retention).

Literally months goes in to tuning/programming/conditioning the players to move a certain way. To set up a certain way. To look for players in particular places at specific times.
It makes it near on impossible to flick a switch and change things up within a 2 week time frame.
(It also highlights the raw lack of speed we have across the middle and potentially even half back).

Our tall forward structure isn't built to spread. We want clean balls to 30 out where at best someone marks, or at worst we get stoppage so our forward press/pressure comes in to play.
On the MCG, it's 2 kicks to the wing from full back, so a quick dash and long kick only gets to 50 out, not 30 like we're used to.
With questions over JUH's fitness/workrate, we don't set up with that crazy aerobic Richo/Riewoldt type to make it work.
(Interestingly, few other successful teams like the Hawks and Tigers in there day went almost without a traditional CHF, one roaming big guy to contest and relied on a swarm when the ball hit the ground).

Edit 2: So, what that means in terms of our game, indoors and on small or narrow grounds that kick from the wing often bypasses the intercepting Sicily type, or at least he is forced to compete with a large pack of talls.
At 50 out tho, the way he reads the ball and with so much space to move any "plan" short of an outright tag (which also has its negatives) is tenuous at best.

Edit: I don't think there's any doubt that the inequity of the draw is a factor. We don't play there enough, but forced to in a "home" final.

 

[yebach]

Curnow and McKay are no more athletic and just as lazy as JUH is perceived to be (which I don't agree with) and they do just fine at the G.

We're going in circles here.

Inequity in the draw applies to most teams. The Sydney teams have even smaller home grounds and have to travel interstate to win the big one.
If we're using size of grounds as to why we struggle in finals we might as well blame the umpiring for all our losses as well.

I've posted this before and I'm sick of repeating myself. Have a look at all our finals losses. There is a consistent theme of self sabotaging selection calls. Head scratching tactics by Bevo. No contingency plans if the game starts slipping away from us.

Even in 2021 we beat Brisbane by a point. From memory we played Schache and Dunkley in the Ruck. Sweet was peeling potatoes back at Footscray market. We made McInerney look like Maxi Gawn on steroids. His best game in finals ever. That non selection nearly cost us the game.
That sort of s**t has nothing to do with the size of the ground.
Letting Sicily run around unopposed and chop us to pieces has nothing to do with ground size.
Playing Harmes ahead of Macrae in the centre and watching everything he touched turn to s**t has nothing to do with ground size.

I could go on and on and on.

 

[stefoid]

i disagree - we cannot tackle, broken tackles galore. opposition players are allowed to dance around 2/3 of our players constantly

Ive argued this point to many people, and it was evident last weeks final...

watch our 2021 GF, the pressure/tackling was poor

you want to see what real finals pressure and tackling is, go watch Richmond 17-20

something which isnt talked about is reactive/proactive tacking. we are a reactive tackling team

yes and no.

keeping your feet is becoming more an more important. Particiualrly if you are outnumbered. So if you tackle wrap up your opponent, and you dont manage it, you are likely letting the ball out of your area under no pressure. Whereas if you pressure a disposal without overcommitting, you are instantly available defensively or offensively if they turn it over.

its situational

Against us, I thought the hawks, after the first quarter, were good at flipping handballs to 'nobody' but vaguely in the direction of their teammates when we pressured them, and they were then good at collecting those loose balls.

 

[perro_loco]

It would have helped a lot if we had a ruck that gave us first hands on the ball and clearance. It was like playing with 21 players last week.

I am glad you mentioned English. He was pathetic in the finals this year and last time. Instead Sweet a less capable and skilled ruck, played his role and Port won. We have lost the following top players: Sweet, Lipdinski, Dunkley and BSmith. Now we are going to lose Mcrae. Something fishy going on in the Kingdom at Barkly Street.

 

[bigdog54]

Everyone needs to be accountable for their own performance.

Our leaders have generally been sensational over an extended period of time, it's our lesser lights that have struggled to step up when required.

We can't rely on our stars to carry us through every match.

It's a tough competition, sometimes the stars will be down or covered legally or even illegally, and when that occurs, the other role players have to be able to step up and fill the breach.

Our up and down form in recent years is largely due to the fact that on such occasions our lesser lights have been found wanting and shown an inability to carry a heavier load.

That's where our improvement needs to come from.

Yeah sure during the home and away season but this is a final. I expect our senior players to stand up. They didn't and that's a concern.

 

[SweatOnMySkin]

I reckon we can probably forgive Bont have having a shit game. It doesnt happen that often and he would be bitterly disappointed in himself considering the standards he sets. The problem as always is that rarely do the midrange players on the list stepup in their place.

English needs to take some angry pills, his lack of aggression has held him back his entire career

 

[Proffessor]

Yeah sure during the home and away season but this is a final. I expect our senior players to stand up. They didn't and that's a concern.

A game is a game, a final is just a game where there is typically no tomorrow for the loser (QFs the obvious exception).

If the opposition goes all out to stop your key players which Hawthorn did. Then, that should have opened up lots of opportunities for the players that weren't targeted.

Who stepped up to exploit their opportunities?

Why didn't some of our non-stars capitalise on the extra freedom created by opponents worrying about other opponents\roles?

If someone on your team is getting double teamed, then one of your teammates is unguarded.

If you lose, do you blame the guy who couldn't beat the double team or the free guy?

 

[stefoid]

I reckon we can probably forgive Bont have having a shit game. It doesnt happen that often and he would be bitterly disappointed in himself considering the standards he sets. The problem as always is that rarely do the midrange players on the list stepup in their place.

English needs to take some angry pills, his lack of aggression has held him back his entire career

Bont must have been injured, why else would they play him forward for half the game?

 

[bigdog54]

A game is a game, a final is just a game where there is typically no tomorrow for the loser (QFs the obvious exception).

If the opposition goes all out to stop your key players which Hawthorn did. Then, that should have opened up lots of opportunities for the players that weren't targeted.

Who stepped up to exploit their opportunities?

Why didn't some of our non-stars capitalise on the extra freedom created by opponents worrying about other opponents\roles?

If someone on your team is getting double teamed, then one of your teammates is unguarded.

If you lose, do you blame the guy who couldn't beat the double team or the free guy?

Our best players didn't need 'double teaming'. Their opponents completely out played them. If you lose and your best players don't show up you blame them. Pretty simple.

 

[Proffessor]

Our best players didn't need 'double teaming'. Their opponents completely out played them. If you lose and your best players don't show up you blame them. Pretty simple.

So what is the point of the other players on your team, why do they get a free pass?

Blame Naughton for kicking only 3 goals, rather than Marra with his zero goals and paltry 4 possessions.

Don't blame Gallagher for getting only 5 measly disposals in the face of zero defensive attention, blame Bont for not completely carrying the team on his back yet again despite having people holding and blocking him the entire game.

That's a bold strategy, Cotton.

 

[fred cook]

GWS getting rid of their coach has really turned the club around NOT the four sides left in the finals have all long standing coaches