Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[Dogs Rule]

At this point, it seems we are just happy finishing bottom 6-8.

Head in the sand.

F****** clueless.

I'm not convinced she knows anything about the connection between coach and players or anything else going on at the joint.

It'll take a new board and exec before significant changes are made. Absolutely furious.

Would Gordon stand for this? Smorgon? Not a chance in hell and yet here we are.

Like I've said before weak and hopeless on and off field.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

What about retention in the forward-line? The reason that the defence struggles so badly is the speed in which the ball comes in on transition, this I the fault of lack of defensive accountability from the midfield as you say but also from the forwards.

well foxfooty reviewed the Carlton game vs pies and identified their midfield pressure was at fault for their defensive exposure

apply it to the dogs and you'll find similar patterns

 

[The Inbetweener]

Who'd have thought when we have superstar forward Matty Spangher looking after our young forward line

This is the issue - the same people that we are relying on to make a call and get us out of this are the same people who made the decision to make a scrappy defender with limited coaching experience our forward line coach.

 

[blurst]

I'm going to buck the trend here:

1. Bevo should be retained. 2 GFs within 9 years. Frankly, the only alternatives are Buckley and Cameron. Removing Bevo now to appease our rage will look crap when we have a dud like Yze coaching us, or worse, the people Yze beat to the Tigers role (eg Gia, who was not necessarily a strong performer as an A/C for us) This is not analogous to when we sacked McCartney, who was only sacked because the players turned on him and we lost Griffen. The only thing that would change my mind on this is if Clarko wanted out of North (which is definitely possible).
2. The assistant coaches we have are not working - the game plan they have devised with Bevo is not competitive.
3. We need public honesty from Grant, Egan and Captain on the list, and our expectations and aspirations for not just this year, but next season. I reckon they know internally what the path is - but they've been more bullish outwardly to maintain revenue and membership early in the season. We know enough now for more honesty, but the club shouldn't hang Bevo out to dry with shock jocks looking for a story like it continually does.
4. We should only play players that have committed to being here beyond this year - and whom we don't want to use as leverage. The players are all nervous, and playing as individuals to save their own careers/livelihood. It's evident everywhere across the ground, and also in the VFL.
5. We must plan for a midfield without Libba ASAP, which means Sanders. I would rather he learn things on the fly in the AFL, rather than a prolonged stint in the VFL. We will forgive his indiscretions and mistakes. We have made our point with him with his attitude now, he will have learned his lesson.
6. Anyone who kicks the ball sideways 15m should be immediately dropped. This is exactly what the Pies were doing in Buckley's last year. Once they went more direct, see what happened next.
7. JUH should be dropped before Naughton goes back. He's a show pony, with terrible conversion (appalling, actually), and he constantly spoils Naughton. Now that he's re-signed, we need to actually teach him a lesson. Remember Naughton vs St Kilda when he wasn't there?

I don’t necessarily agree with you, but I appreciate that you’ve shared a rational, dissenting opinion in what often can feel like an echo chamber

 

[Doggies_13]

Various comments here about our forwards line - I think you'll see our scoring is up this year. Our backline and defensive midfield work around the stoppage and transition, however, is an absolute and complete horror show.

Our scoring is up based on the talent in the forward half, Weightman has more games under his belt and is being more impactful, JUH body is developing to allow him to compete and Darcy’s body has held up so far this year. That’s why it’s up nothing to do with coaching improvements.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Our scoring is up based on the talent in the forward half, Weightman has more games under his belt and is being more impactful, JUH body is developing to allow him to compete and Darcy’s body has held up so far this year. That’s why it’s up nothing to do with coaching improvements.

fact is we don't score enough from turnover , in contrast to top teams they generate a lot of scoring from turnover. the tigers dynasty was based on forward half turnover

 

[cleveland]

Head in the sand.

F****** clueless.

I'm not convinced she knows anything about the connection between coach and players or anything else going on at the joint.

It'll take a new board and exec before significant changes are made. Absolutely furious.

Would Gordon stand for this? Smorgon? Not a chance in hell and yet here we are.

Like I've said before weak and hopeless on and off field.

Gordon was fully supportive of Mcspud mate. Only changed his tune after Griff walked out

 

[Doggies_13]

Here is Kylie Watson-wheeler ABC Interview

Bulldogs Media | Western Bulldogs

Watch the latest videos from the Western Bulldogs

www.westernbulldogs.com.au

She is now running with the evolution phase same as Beveridge.

When asked if he will see out his contract she waffled with a lot of words without answering that.

 

[Dogs54]

Sure!… To what extent though?
Is it also up to him to instil the required desire, want and fight?
We’re talking professional AFL players, not under 10s where a John Kennedy type 1/4 time speech is needed every game for inspiration!…
I maintain that the majority of our list are (to quote Jack Dyer) “good ordinary players”
that are soft and not giving 100% consistently!
When the opposition is off (ala St Kilda game) we look like absolute world beaters.. As soon as the going gets tough, we lack any semblance of tenacity, we stop running and simply fold!
A few crocodile tears after being flogged, their hands out for their (arbitrarily) 30-40 grand a week paycheque, and rinse and repeat the following week!
Let’s see the in’s next week?
If it’s only the one in for Libba, it’s not bloody good enough!
After the last few disgraces it’s time to send the message that mediocrity won’t be tolerated… no matter who you are, or how much moolah you’re on a year!

To what extent is he responsible is at least 90%. He selects the players, he sees them train, he should know about their issues, he should have told the players the not negoitables, the systems and the structures and if they aren't in the correct mindset or don't follow them then don't select them. Bevo has the power to do all of this.... so what is he doing?

 

[_Cerberus_]

Various comments here about our forwards line - I think you'll see our scoring is up this year. Our backline and defensive midfield work around the stoppage and transition, however, is an absolute and complete horror show.

Overall points scored is a misleading stat to look at alone tbh.

You got to look at the wider picture. Who were the goals kicked against? We have been flat track bullies for most of the past two years. Kick big scores against ordinary teams, manage 60 vs good teams. The best teams forward lines stand up when the game is on the line, or vs decent teams. We barely do either.

The eye test. A few games we have a massive high scoring quarter. Then struggle to kick a thing after that. We had a good start and finish vs the Hawks. But for almost 3 quarters of game play in between, we barely generated anything on the scoreboard. Consistency is our biggest issue. We go for to long without scoring enough goals, or the ability to sting a few together in a row.

What is our efficiency stats? How many goals do we average per inside 50? How targets do we hit for a mark? Lack of forward pressure in the forward half, exposes our back half. It is not just about the scoring.

Our forwards are inconsistent. Jamarra and Naughton may do nothing for two weeks, suddenly Weightman has a blinder and kicks 5. Then he goes quiet, and the next week its Jamarra who has a blinder. Then Naughton the week after that. Many 1 and 0 goal games in between their bags. Consistency has been an issue, along with poor structure. We can't rely on one person popping up now and then to be the savior. Would love to see our forwards be more consistent like Mc Kay and Curnow.

We have not seen any improvement in two years. I put down any scoring improvement, to our seemingly better kicking for goal this year. But structure, and consitency remain a mess.

Imagine how many more points we leave out there? If we only had better delivery inside 50, better consistency in production from our forward, and a better game plan and structure, that doesn't involve long bombed passes to the top of a crowded square, with super low odds of being marked. And no genuine crumbing small forwards to mop up anything spilled. We'd kick enough points, that we should win most, even if our defensive game is still putrid.

We are not getting the best out of the group from coaching, game day, and the individual players themselves.

 

[hutchy31]

well foxfooty reviewed the Carlton game vs pies and identified their midfield pressure was at fault for their defensive exposure

apply it to the dogs and you'll find similar patterns

Also showed some vision of Zac Williams being torched defensively, because he’s playing half back but has no defensive instincts.

At least Carlton is only playing one of those guys at a time. We’re playing 2-3 of them and wondering why we’re getting scored on so frequently.

 

[dergert]

I used to think it was Ashley Hansen

Ashley Hansen

Age

41

Ht

198cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

8.1

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

1.4

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.4

5star

who was a dud because our forward line was a mess.

He's got Carlton's flying

 

[adogsfan5]

Most depressed I’ve been since 2014.
Footy sucks when your team stinks.

 

[yebach]

I watched all games on the weekend.

There are no other forward lines as ridiculous as ours.

No other teams have 2-3 players flying for the same ball.

The back line does exactly the same thing. The opposition stays on the ground behind the pack, picks up the loose ball, goal.
Been happening for years.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Most depressed I’ve been since 2014.
Footy sucks when your team stinks.

But we don't stink at least not according to our exec and Bains who says we're a Top 4 side.

 

[cherrypie]

Here is Kylie Watson-wheeler ABC Interview

Bulldogs Media | Western Bulldogs

Watch the latest videos from the Western Bulldogs

www.westernbulldogs.com.au

"Too early in the season for us to panic" - we lost to West Coast in Round 23. 9 months later and we’re still losing to sides in development that we should be beating comfortably.

"You need to improve on the previous year". 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023 and now likely 2024 we have performed worse than the year before.

These issues have been going on for a long time, the Hawthorn result isn’t a random one-off that we can just ignore and pretend everything is ok.

 

[BEaston]

I used to think it was Ashley Hansen who was a dud because our forward line was a mess.

He's got Carlton's flying

Everyone on here always thinks our assistants are duds before they go on to do good things at other clubs.

 

[Scott Tracy]

I used to think it was Ashley Hansen who was a dud because our forward line was a mess.

He's got Carlton's flying

Agreed. I used to think that but looking back on it now that was probably more of a recruitment and form issue than coaching issue.
Cloke, Boyd, Shachae, Redpath, Cordy just to name a few who he had to work with.
Then went Naughton got some experience and Bruce Found form we looked very dangerous. Then he left.
Would have loved to see what he could've done with this current set up

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Head in the sand.

F****** clueless.

I'm not convinced she knows anything about the connection between coach and players or anything else going on at the joint.

It'll take a new board and exec before significant changes are made. Absolutely furious.

Would Gordon stand for this? Smorgon? Not a chance in hell and yet here we are.

Like I've said before weak and hopeless on and off field.

Panicking 8 games into a 23 game season would be a more ridiculous performance than what we dished up.

It's right. We don't want the club to implode just for the sake of imploding.

 

[stefoid]

drums reaching Johny Quest level

johny quest theme song - Google Search

 

[Anja_Nees]

In some ways I kind of get what the board are doing, we have a hard run after the Tigers game and if we go in to the bye 4-10, his position is untentable and we have to let him go. Nobody can say in the media we sacked him too early or didn't give him a chance.

It's rubbish but it kind of makes sense, sucks we have to waste a whole season after everyone knew he should of been given the ass last year

It’s as much that not much is likely to be gained by sacking him.

The brief resurgence in appointing caretakers on a permanent basis in 2019 ended with them all being sacked quickly.

Odds are everyone will just sit in limbo and we won’t appoint a new coach until late in the season regardless. It won’t bring fans back, particularly if we then start playing worse (which could definitely happen).

It would scratch an itch in the short term and not much else. If we’re going to have a caretaker it should only be for, say, six or seven games. Enough to try a few position swaps and blood some young players.

 

[Al dente]

How you survive after that west coast loss was mind boggling.
Bevo should be sacked and anyone responsible for the extension after the freo elimination final and the decision not to bite the bullet last year should follow.
We are a joke.

It was unprecedented and incredible that he survived the WC game, the team under Bevo was only going in one direction from that point on, and all but the board and a few optimistic supporters knew it. the most inept management ive ever seen in my time following the dogs

 

[Dog 36]

Panicking 8 games into a 23 game season would be a more ridiculous performance than what we dished up.

It's right. We don't want the club to implode just for the sake of imploding.

Agree with you to an extent.

I see 8 games into a 23 game season a club should not be panicking provided the coach has had the list for may be couple of years and you can see some form of progress.

In this case Bev has had this list in the main for several years now in excess of 3 and still there is no clarity where we are at are we reinventing, re emerging, evolving what is our dna, fingerprint etc

I see it as kicking the can down the road until something drastic happens and forces your hand.

 

[Mojorisin]

Agree with you to an extent.

I see 8 games into a 23 game season a club should not be panicking provided the coach has had the list for may be couple of years and you can see some form of progress.

In this case Bev has had this list in the main for several years now in excess of 3 and still there is no clarity where we are at are we reinventing, re emerging, evolving what is our dna, fingerprint etc

I see it as kicking the can down the road until something drastic happens and forces your hand.

Exactly right, it isn't a case of just the eight rounds of this season. It's the fact that over these eight weeks we have gone no closer to addressing the failing of the last 18 months.

 

[Unnamed1]

I don’t necessarily agree with you, but I appreciate that you’ve shared a rational, dissenting opinion in what often can feel like an echo chamber

Thanks. I worked at a high profile elite Australian sporting organisation for a number of years, and endured a few examples of what we are now going through. I'm not saying that I know better than anyone else here, but it has given me perspective.

1. Well run organisations work through the current situation we are currently experiencing. How we manage it proactively sets the stage of what comes next - whether that is under Bevo, or the next coach. While it looks like a train wreck for us - the margins are quite small and it's never as good, or bad, as it looks on the outside. Our rise from 2014 crapness to 2016 champs is a good example, as well as the troubles experienced this year by Collingwood, Brisbane and to a lesser degree Adelaide.
2. As others have rightly pointed out, Gordon was fully supportive of McCartney, until he wasn't. I think they probably always knew McCartney wasn't working out (they would have had enough player feedback from senior players in Murphy, Boyd, Minson) and that Griffen wanted out, well before that happened. I can't subscribe to the view that the Tom Boyd trade was opportunistic only.
3. What happens inside the walls is often starkly different to what the external public sees. Ultimately, there are only so many people with a limited number of hours in the day to get through what they need to, whether that be player conditioning, player recuperation & review (Sunday/Monday), gameday preparation (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday) and a day off (Wednesday).
4. I do know that Sam Power and Ameet Bains are both incredibly smart, savvy operators. Both trained at top tier law firms, both worked in industry before joining us. KWW is an experienced executive that has dealt with far bigger crises. There will be an existing plan, with different contingencies, targets and triggers, that they will be working towards. I think that's obvious within what KWW said today. It would have been proposed by Bains and agreed on at Board level following the Jackson review. It would have also had guidelines on public comms, and almost certainly involving not having any public comms early in the year on "rebuilding" to ensure we didn't have a drop in revenue or sponsorship interest in the early stage of the season.
5. In that regard, the Buckley resignation/tap on Queen's Bday weekend should be a guide for Dogs supporters of how Boards consider things. In that instance, it was announced on 9 June, about halfway through the season. For the Pies, they had won only 3 games at that halfway point. If we are also 3 wins in by then, I imagine there will be a similar mood for us as the triggers in the current strategy will be more likely or not being reached with the actual data on W/L ratio. In the alternative, we should also review McCartney being fired post-season as another alternative view.
6. The Board's strategy will absolutely be responsive to alternative solutions to Bevo. Right now, there isn't anything obvious. They will be loathed to dump a lot of development on a new, unproven coach (unless it's Cameron or Buckley) - we are better off having Bevo cop heat while blooding young players (like he is), rather than suffer what happened to someone like Rhyce Shaw.
7. Adam Simpson now, Hardwick 2016 and others are also a relevant factors weighing in favour of a responsible board retaining Bevo. Countering this is the Pies post Buckley.
8. I hope the Board is providing proper pastoral care to Bevo. The current scrutiny will be taking a huge personal toll on him, I'm sure he isn't sleeping and is second guessing himself in all aspects. He will be a shadow of his true self until there is a bit more stability. We need to minimise this, as it will flow on to all around him. The same goes for our core, senior players. Libba being bashed up like he is couldn't be worse timing as he's a culture warrior for our club.