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[BrainOfMorbius]

Princes park is an utterly rubbish ground these days though, only seats 12,000 as well.

The bulk of home games at Carrara would be to the betterment of the side one would think.

Kardinia Park is Carrara in this analogy

 

[M Malice]

Metricon?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Dalions]

The bulk of home games at Carrara would be to the betterment of the side one would think.

Not if they end up with a half empty stadium.

 

[Pacman82]

Kardinia Park is Carrara in this analogy

I'm fully aware of that, just pointing out how Princes is not anywhere near upto AFL standards & only has a 12,000 capacity. I'm sure most Carlton supporters wouldn't want games played there in its current state.

 

[Pacman82]

Not if they end up with a half empty stadium.

Me n Browney will go to every game! I'll just spread right out & enjoy it then

In all seriousness, I think having a good ground to play on consistently is a lot more important during the period personally. Stability.. Routine..

 

[Mighty Lions]

Me n Browney will go to every game! I'll just spread right out & enjoy it then

In all seriousness, I think having a good ground to play on consistently is a lot more important during the period personally. Stability.. Routine..

Except Heritage isn't a good ground.

 

[Dalions]

Me n Browney will go to every game! I'll just spread right out & enjoy it then

In all seriousness, I think having a good ground to play on consistently is a lot more important during the period personally. Stability.. Routine..

I have no doubt that wherever it may be that we end up. The quality of the ground itself will not be the issue.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Did they ever consider just building a new venue somewhere else and leaving the Gabba. Imagine the chaos with machinery trying to get into the site.

 

[dlanod]

I'm fully aware of that, just pointing out how Princes is not anywhere near upto AFL standards & only has a 12,000 capacity. I'm sure most Carlton supporters wouldn't want games played there in its current state.

Wikipedia has it at about 24,000.

Either way, I was explaining to a (presumably) Melbourne based Carlton supporter as to the lack of enthusiasm for Carrara by analogy. Following your logic, the Showgrounds are an even more attractive option then.

 

[Pacman82]

I have no doubt that wherever it may be that we end up. The quality of the ground itself will not be the issue.

I'm sure the surface itself will be fine wherever it is, yes. The point I'm trying to make is more around the facility itself, changerooms, amenities, for all the playing/coaching/medical/admin team, as well some needed stability & routine for that frontline group. I think it's paramount we have a good ground locked in for the period asap, and not some rolling fixture, gypsy like schedule for a 4 year era, which could potentially turn into an on field slump or worse case a disaster.

 

[Pacman82]

Wikipedia has it at about 24,000.

Either way, I was explaining to a (presumably) Melbourne based Carlton supporter as to the lack of enthusiasm for Carrara by analogy. Following your logic, the Showgrounds are an even more attractive option then.

Possibly another 10,000 standing at Princes now then, not that you can even do that on the westside goals end as there's a building now there. Haven't been there since we played a pre-season match a while back & it was a rubbish ground to watch as a spectator now days. marcmurphy3 maybe you can confirm the current numbers.. Anyhow comparing Carrara to Kardinia Park is another false analogy, you have to take the regional V-Line service to get to Geelong from Melbourne, while Carrara is connected to Brisbane's metro rail service. There's also a large urban sprawl between Brisbane & Carrara, between Melbourne & Kardinia's not so much. Kardinia Park only currently holds 26,000, Carrara could hold 40,000 by rd.1 2024. The state transport service provides game day attendees free public transport & would put on extra services no doubt as well. So there's another 4 major factors that make Carrara a more attractive proposition.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Thank god a Victorian is here to put us all straight #VICSPLAINING

 

[dlanod]

Possibly another 10,000 standing at Princes now then, not that you can even do that on the westside goals end as there's a building now there. Haven't been there since we played a pre-season match a while back & it was a rubbish ground to watch as a spectator now days. marcmurphy3 maybe you can confirm the current numbers.. Anyhow comparing Carrara to Kardinia Park is another false analogy, you have to take the regional V-Line service to get to Geelong from Melbourne, while Carrara is connected to Brisbane's metro rail service. There's also a large urban sprawl between Brisbane & Carrara, between Melbourne & Kardinia's not so much. Kardinia Park only currently holds 26,000, Carrara could hold 40,000 by rd.1 2024. The state transport service provides game day attendees free public transport & would put on extra services no doubt as well. So there's another 4 major factors that make Carrara a more attractive proposition.

Have you been to Carrara on match day via public transport? If so, you wouldn't claim Carrara is connected to the train. Honestly I'd rather Kardinia - the train ride from Melbourne/Brisbane is identical in length, but then you walk from the train station to Kardinia vs competing with thousands of people (if the Lions are there) for shuttle buses at the beginning and end of the night.

 

[Pacman82]

Have you been to Carrara on match day via public transport? If so, you wouldn't claim Carrara is connected to the train. Honestly I'd rather Kardinia - the train ride from Melbourne/Brisbane is identical in length, but then you walk from the train station to Kardinia vs competing with thousands of people (if the Lions are there) for shuttle buses at the beginning and end of the night.

It's a short walk, courtesy buses could easily service the short distance as well. I've caught the train along there plenty of times, there's one every 15mins or so. I'm guessing you've never caught the V/Line, dinky old diesel service towing a few small carriages at scarce intervals.

 

[Pacman82]

Thank god a Victorian is here to put us all straight #VICSPLAINING

You don't know where I live..

I get why Brisbane based supporters want the home ground to stay there, I'm simply providing some reasons why it may not be entirely to our betterment.

 

[Dalions]

You don't know where I live..

I get why Brisbane based supporters want the home ground to stay there, I'm simply providing some reasons why it may not be entirely to our betterment.

If the club truly believed that moving to Carrara was for the betterment of the club then they would have been pushing for that from the start, when in fact the opposite has happened.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

You don't know where I live..

I get why Brisbane based supporters want the home ground to stay there, I'm simply providing some reasons why it may not be entirely to our betterment.

Do you recall that time during 2020 when Richmond played a home game at Carrara vs the Lions and the match had to be delayed half an hour because the Tigers' bus was stuck on the M1 in the traffic? Now imagine Brisbane supporters being expected to put up with that for every game.

I don't think anyone is saying Carrara has no redeeming features whatsoever, just that they are overwhelmed by the drawbacks.

 

[dlanod]

It's a short walk, courtesy buses could easily service the short distance as well. I've caught the train along there plenty of times, there's one every 15mins or so. I'm guessing you've never caught the V/Line, dinky old diesel service towing a few small carriages at scarce intervals.

2 km is not a "short walk" to most people (sadly). But yes, I've caught the V/Line. It's fine, I just plan ahead. I've caught the shuttle bus from Carrara too. It's just frustrating (same reason I walk from the 2 km from SCG to Central).

Ultimately, even when it's Brisbane v Gold Coast it's clear most Lions supporters won't travel down there. They don't even crack 15k for those games when we're getting 20k+ at the Gabba against them. The club really wants to rule out Carrara, because they think they'll lose more supporters than at the Showgrounds or even Springfield.

 

[rye]

is selling games to melbourne even feasible? most of the smaller melbourne clubs already have to sell games to regional centres to make a bit of extra cash - realistically how many supporters are you going to get at brisbane vs a non tenant at either of marvel or mcg? i thought we would be selling games to some regional ground like cairns or alice springs that need to pay significant amount to get the teams to actually go there and try to make up the money that way

Wikipedia has it at about 24,000.

Either way, I was explaining to a (presumably) Melbourne based Carlton supporter as to the lack of enthusiasm for Carrara by analogy. Following your logic, the Showgrounds are an even more attractive option then.

i think marcmurphy3 is a queensland based supporter - attended a brisbane training session or scratch match last offseason and wrote a pretty good report iirc

 

[dlanod]

is selling games to melbourne even feasible? most of the smaller melbourne clubs already have to sell games to regional centres to make a bit of extra cash - realistically how many supporters are you going to get at brisbane vs a non tenant at either of marvel or mcg? i thought we would be selling games to some regional ground like cairns or alice springs that need to pay significant amount to get the teams to actually go there and try to make up the money that way

The money you make is generally from the state government, not from admission. So I guess it depends whether the governments would come to the party (or I guess the AFL could, given they're the favoured tenant of the MCG plus the owner of Marvel).

 

[rye]

The money you make is generally from the state government, not from admission. So I guess it depends whether the governments would come to the party (or I guess the AFL could, given they're the favoured tenant of the MCG plus the owner of Marvel).

yeah this is what i was trying to get at - i would be surprised if the victorian government would pay for brisbane to come to victoria and have a home game at either of the two melbourne grounds

 

[Pacman82]

2 km is not a "short walk" to most people (sadly). But yes, I've caught the V/Line. It's fine, I just plan ahead. I've caught the shuttle bus from Carrara too. It's just frustrating (same reason I walk from the 2 km from SCG to Central).

Ultimately, even when it's Brisbane v Gold Coast it's clear most Lions supporters won't travel down there. They don't even crack 15k for those games when we're getting 20k+ at the Gabba against them. The club really wants to rule out Carrara, because they think they'll lose more supporters than at the Showgrounds or even Springfield.

Ok that's your take, very similar opinion to most of the Brisbane based heads, which seems to simply revolve around game day attendance. I think the difference in crowd number is negligible compared to the stability & routine our team would have if playing at their old home ground for the vast majority of home matches.

 

[M Malice]

Makes no sense whatsoever for a Brisbane team to play "home" games for 4 years in another city and would require for most spectators to get there using multiple bus/train connections.

I have done the Metricon trip a few times, I am on the inner southside of Brisbane and from the time you leave home until you are tucked up in bed post game you are looking at 5 + hours.

 

[dlanod]

Ok that's your take, very similar opinion to most of the Brisbane based heads, which seems to simply revolve around game day attendance. I think the difference in crowd number is negligible compared to the stability & routine our team would have if playing at their old home ground for the vast majority of home matches.

I'm going off the club's concerns. I don't really have a horse in the race, given I doubt I'll get into any of them from NSW. The club is concerned about losing members and momentum and dollars more than game day off-field capabilities.

Stability and routine could be had at ANY base as long as it's a consistent base. They'll still be training out at MVO. Showgrounds vs Carrara vs whatever it's called on the south side are literally just a game site - even in a normal year, half of them won't be at the Gabba. I completely agree we don't want to be migrating from site to site during this period.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Yeah 24k was the Princes Park capacity before the demolition of the Hawthorn Stand and removal of seating and standing room around that south-western flank. Wiki needs updating.

Wonderful ground when it was full, once upon a time.