News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Dalions]

Mighty Lions
I would really like to know where this "staged rebuild" you keep talking about is or has been proposed and costed.
It has not found light of day to my knowledge.
Going on your posts i believe it came from someone you have had discussions with on the matter.
They could be super qualified to make an assessment but until details are put to the test it is just an observation.
Even if it was out there somewhere it does not fall within "the terms of reference" being agreements and documents the Review committee are looking at.
As such how can an invisible "staged rebuild" plan get the go ahead from the Review panel.

The only "proposed stage rebuild" on record are these three below.
The only one that meets Olympic requirements is option 4 and that is $3.17 billion.

At the end of the day whatever the review committee recommends should go ahead ASAP.
It does not really matter if i agree or disagree with their decision.
The project needs to move forward both politically and for the parties that will be involved in construction and final design and costs.

After this decision is made only then can we move on to where the Lions could play during this time.

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wouldn't be surprised if they decide on option 2 there which is just disgusting and the worst option possible for footy fans.

 

[M Malice]

wouldn't be surprised if they decide on option 2 there which is just disgusting and the worst option possible for footy fans.

Would the fact that option 2 "Does not meet Brisbane 2032 games requirements" rule it out? ie. The IOC would not approve it.

I am assuming the couple of Billion dollars the IOC is gifting us would be on the proviso that we meet all requirements.

 

[T Rick]

The Lions would prefer a staged rebuild as then they get to stay at the Gabba.
Maybe that will happen, but it won't be cheaper than a full rebuild.

Also, members thinking there will be lots of seats available will get a shock.
There may not be enough seating to accommodate our season members.
Thats assuming they decide to take up a lot of the crappy seating which will be available.

Haven't Geelong just undergone a staged rebuild without destroying their club and membership base? I think I understand the arguments for and against a scorched earth option but a staged rebuild seems to me to offer the best hope of getting a better revamped Gabba without gutting our Club. Four years of dislocation away from the Gabba will be potentially catastrophic in my view...we might take 10 years to recover, if ever.

 

[Section 5]

Haven't Geelong just undergone a staged rebuild without destroying their club and membership base? I think I understand the arguments for and against a scorched earth option but a staged rebuild seems to me to offer the best hope of getting a better revamped Gabba without gutting our Club. Four years of dislocation away from the Gabba will be potentially catastrophic in my view...we might take 10 years to recover, if ever.

Geelong 5 stages took 20 years and increased capacity by 12K

 

[Andyz]

Haven't Geelong just undergone a staged rebuild without destroying their club and membership base? I think I understand the arguments for and against a scorched earth option but a staged rebuild seems to me to offer the best hope of getting a better revamped Gabba without gutting our Club. Four years of dislocation away from the Gabba will be potentially catastrophic in my view...we might take 10 years to recover, if ever.

Catastrophic?! The lions are professional athletes! They can play football anywhere (admittedly not super fantastic at the mcg though but it’s a work in progress).

The RNA is a couple of km down the road, it’s hardly a big deal to play 2kms down the road instead, especially if it means the club is going to have a world class venue to return to that will ensure the Lions’ future as well as Brisbane’s future having a world class stadium with which to attract major events.

If there was a way to reclaim Stanley or Vulture streets things may be different but that just isn’t viable.

We can still easily get to RNA games by train & it’s a central brisbane location - the reduced capacity is a concern hopefully they can bump that up a bit.

Oh and Geelong / gmhba is hardly a fair comparison, that oval is regional. Our new oval better bloody be a league above that!

 

[Andyz]

wouldn't be surprised if they decide on option 2 there which is just disgusting and the worst option possible for footy fans.

Option 2 would be such a poor long term decision, 45,000 seating capacity & doesn’t meet Olympic requirements anyway.
I think option 3 would be an easy pick for them meeting most requirements & 50,000 capacity albeit the wrong one imo - will subject the whole E stand to direct sun in the afternoons & push more people higher up away from the field.
They just need to pick the best LONG TERM option & not think so short sighted which ends up costing more in the long run.

 

[Dalions]

Would the fact that option 2 "Does not meet Brisbane 2032 games requirements" rule it out? ie. The IOC would not approve it.

I am assuming the couple of Billion dollars the IOC is gifting us would be on the proviso that we meet all requirements.

That’s why I could see it happening.

 

[Mighty Lions]

The Lions would prefer a staged rebuild as then they get to stay at the Gabba.
Maybe that will happen, but it won't be cheaper than a full rebuild.

Also, members thinking there will be lots of seats available will get a shock.
There may not be enough seating to accommodate our season members.
Thats assuming they decide to take up a lot of the crappy seating which will be available.

How do you know this? Do you have a background in stadium buliding? I know you are passionate about this project (& I respect and understand that) but nowhere have you revealed your experience in all this but by your posts you do. Please elaborate.
From a couple of people inside the club, the proposed staged re-build is cheaper than the full re-build but thats all I know....I guess we wait until next month for the announcement.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Not sure why people completely ignore benefits - Executive Summary from 2021 mentions long-term 17.6B for Australia.

Also mostly ignored, IOC is giving a couple of billions to Brisbane. It essentially covers a new stadium.

Best solution - a new stadium on a green site (provided a good transport is available). Making a lot of momey by selling off Gabba site after Olympic games.
2nd best solution - a full rebuild of Gabba.
Cheapest solution - upgrade Carrara (capacity 40-45K), hold ceremonies, athletics there. I guess 500M should do.

All those partial/gradual re-builds plans above look like a joke. Clearly inferior products with the same/higher cost.

Of course, there is an option to abandon Games. Tokyo deserves to reap some benefits from existing infrastructure.

Looking forward to the report next month. If all previous analyses were done properly, it should come up with the same original plans. But I bet politics will determine the outcome.

you were doing ok until i read the bolded. lol.

 

[Jirik13]

you were doing ok until i read the bolded. lol.

Haha. Definitely the cheapest but the least probable/popular.

I go with Tokyo

 

[T Rick]

Catastrophic?! The lions are professional athletes! They can play football anywhere (admittedly not super fantastic at the mcg though but it’s a work in progress).

The RNA is a couple of km down the road, it’s hardly a big deal to play 2kms down the road instead, especially if it means the club is going to have a world class venue to return to that will ensure the Lions’ future as well as Brisbane’s future having a world class stadium with which to attract major events.

If there was a way to reclaim Stanley or Vulture streets things may be different but that just isn’t viable.

We can still easily get to RNA games by train & it’s a central brisbane location - the reduced capacity is a concern hopefully they can bump that up a bit.

Oh and Geelong / gmhba is hardly a fair comparison, that oval is regional. Our new oval better bloody be a league above that!

Your concern re the impact on the Lions seems incredibly flippant in your drive to justify a scorched earth rebuild. I fear for the future of our Club if we are forced away from the Gabba for 4+ years. I don't trust this government to get any major project done on time or on budget - their track record on planning for the Olympics so far has been nothing short of a clusterfaark. I would prefer a staged rebuild or a new stadium located elsewhere. Anyway, I am not going to change your view and we will be no doubt discussing something more tangible in a couple of weeks. My first priority will always be the ongoing viability of the Lions not a 2 week long Olympics.

 

[BRAB]

How do you know this? Do you have a background in stadium buliding? I know you are passionate about this project (& I respect and understand that) but nowhere have you revealed your experience in all this but by your posts you do. Please elaborate.
From a couple of people inside the club, the proposed staged re-build is cheaper than the full re-build but thats all I know....I guess we wait until next month for the announcement.

Didn’t the report that Section 5 keeps referring to state that the rebuild was the most cost effective option?

 

[Dalions]

How do you know this? Do you have a background in stadium buliding? I know you are passionate about this project (& I respect and understand that) but nowhere have you revealed your experience in all this but by your posts you do. Please elaborate.
From a couple of people inside the club, the proposed staged re-build is cheaper than the full re-build but thats all I know....I guess we wait until next month for the announcement.

Stadium builds would be no different to a major House renovation.
If a client doesn’t have the money to do the full job in one hit, it will always (always) cost more to do it in stages.
Things for stage 2 and possibly a stage 3 will need to be catered for in stage 1 and then re-addressed at a later date.
Things like footings and slabs that can be poured as 1 when doing the job as a whole need to be poured in 2 and 3 stages meaning extra days for Concretors and concrete pumps.
All of these things add up for all different trades and services on a job that is expected to take 4 years for a full tear down and re-build will take longer for a staged re-build which will add a large amount of extra labour cost to be considered.
Engineers and Architects will also need to make changes in plans at times to caters for things not being built as a whole, these things they do not do for free.

All of the above are just some of the reasons why a smaller staged build that will not include the full scope of works as the full tear down and re-build will still likely cost as much if not more.


And in case you think I am just
Pulling things out of my ass,
I have been a Buildier for the last 30 years including my apprenticeship.
So do know a little bit about the game.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Didn’t the report that Section 5 keeps referring to state that the rebuild was the most cost effective option?

Don't know.

I do know that the staged rebuild is considered by some inside the club as a less costly exercise and that the IOC along with QLD Govt are seriously looking at what the alternatives are. These alternative studies may already be completed (i am led to believe they have) and now it's a matter of ensuring they meet the IOC standard for a stadium before they let the pidgeons loose next month.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Stadium builds would be no different to a major House renovation.
If a client doesn’t have the money to do the full job in one hit, it will always (always) cost more to do it in stages.
Things for stage 2 and possibly a stage 3 will need to be catered for in stage 1 and then re-addressed at a later date.
Things like footings and slabs that can be poured as 1 when doing the job as a whole need to be poured in 2 and 3 stages meaning extra days for Concretors and concrete pumps.
All of these things add up for all different trades and services on a job that is expected to take 4 years for a full tear down and re-build will take longer for a staged re-build which will add a large amount of extra labour cost to be considered.
Engineers and Architects will also need to make changes in plans at times to caters for things not being built as a whole, these things they do not do for free.

All of the above are just some of the reasons why a smaller staged build that will not include the full scope of works as the full tear down and re-build will still likely cost as much if not more.


And in case you think I am just
Pulling things out of my ass,
I have been a Buildier for the last 30 years including my apprenticeship.
So do know a little bit about the game.

Maybe the full job wont be done in the staged build and thats where it becomes cheaper....who knows Dalions. None of us know the accurate story nor the twists and turns the Govt are doing right now. I do know that Quirk is definately against pulling down the Gabba and starting all over.

 

[Dalions]

Don't know.

I do know that the staged rebuild is considered by some inside the club as a less costly exercise and that the IOC along with QLD Govt are seriously looking at what the alternatives are. These alternative studies may already be completed (i am led to believe they have) and now it's a matter of ensuring they meet the IOC standard for a stadium before they let the pidgeons loose next month.

There could be quite a bit of saving through not having to do anywhere near as much underground and earth works but things will cost more with a staged re-build, if from the ground up things remain a similar scope. Due to things I mentioned in the last post, so couldn’t imagine the cost ending up too different for the lesser product.
Could be a bit cheaper to begin with but may also blow out during the build.

 

[Mighty Lions]

There could be quite a bit of saving through not having to do anywhere near as much underground and earth works but things will cost more with a staged re-build, if from the ground up things remain a similar scope. Due to things I mentioned in the last post, so couldn’t imagine the cost ending up too different for the lesser product.
Could be a bit cheaper to begin with but may also blow out during the build.

That can happen (& does) in any building project.

 

[Section 5]

How do you know this? Do you have a background in stadium buliding? I know you are passionate about this project (& I respect and understand that) but nowhere have you revealed your experience in all this but by your posts you do. Please elaborate.
From a couple of people inside the club, the proposed staged re-build is cheaper than the full re-build but thats all I know....I guess we wait until next month for the announcement.

Mighty Lions you, me and anyone really don't need "a background in stadium building" to read reports/submissions etc.
However, those reports/submissions etc. need to be from a reputable source like the IOC a government media release/ website.
To be clear to everyone i have no background in construction just an average Jo that has the time to read reports/contracts/proposals etc.
I may have an opinion/interpretation of those documents but i regularly provide a link so BF posters can have a look themselves.
A few of the link names i have provided on this BF thread that are relevant to the "Terms of reference" the Review panel is now considering.
The Terms of Reference, The Olympic Host Contract, The Signed Intergovernmental Agreement Contract between Commonwealth and Qld Government setting out the framework to fund key projects, All the Games venue sites that are referred to in the Terms of Reference. The IOC's Feasibility Assessment on Brisbane proposed Games Venues.

Two links i have not put up on BF that are referred to in the "terms Of Reference" i will do now.
The elevate 2042 legacy strategy. and the IOC's Future Host Questionnaire FHQ

https://q2032-public-assets.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/documents/ELEVATE%202042%20Legacy%20Strategy_FULL%20LENGTH.pdf

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/International-Olympic-Committee/Commissions/Future-host-commission/The-Games-of-The-Olympiad/Brisbane-2032-FHC-Questionnaire-Response.pdf

I am quite capable of reading a validation report just like you or anyone else can.
The four options have been put up by Populous (a Brisbane Company) who have worked on numerous projects worldwide.

Buffalo Bills New NFL Stadium - Populous

Populous is designing a new NFL stadium for the Buffalo Bills.

populous.com

I will take their assessment over a "couple of people inside the club".

The vast majority of Lions BF posters including yourself are passionate about the club and AFL in general.
So, our opinions expressed on this thread are broken up into what various posters think is best for the Lions short-term, compared to long-term. There will be some that think it is just too expensive no matter what is chosen.

I agree that we will all have to wait till next months report it can't come soon enough.

 

[M Malice]

WOW! 68 and 94 page documents, I won't be reading them, kudos to you Section 5 for reading and passing on the most relevant sections to us Big Footy plebs.

 

[weevil]

How do you know this? Do you have a background in stadium buliding? I know you are passionate about this project (& I respect and understand that) but nowhere have you revealed your experience in all this but by your posts you do. Please elaborate.
From a couple of people inside the club, the proposed staged re-build is cheaper than the full re-build but thats all I know....I guess we wait until next month for the announcement.

From the report.

Option 1 full rebuild $2.7b

Option 2 ‘Value’ rebuild $2.2b (does not meet games requirements)

Option 3 partial rebuild & refurb $3.2b

Option 4 partial rebuild & refurb on existing slab $3.2b

They are the ‘facts’ we have to deal with. I appreciate that there may be a degree of scepticism around the integrity of the report, but everything else is pretty much he-said-she-said.

Quirk is not trying to get re-elected, and everyone is at the end of their rope, so we are all just going to have to go with whatever he says.

If he comes up with a new staged rebuild that is somehow not more expensive and it meets the IOC requirements then bring it on. It sounds like a unicorn, but who knows.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Stadium builds would be no different to a major House renovation.
If a client doesn’t have the money to do the full job in one hit, it will always (always) cost more to do it in stages.
Things for stage 2 and possibly a stage 3 will need to be catered for in stage 1 and then re-addressed at a later date.
Things like footings and slabs that can be poured as 1 when doing the job as a whole need to be poured in 2 and 3 stages meaning extra days for Concretors and concrete pumps.
All of these things add up for all different trades and services on a job that is expected to take 4 years for a full tear down and re-build will take longer for a staged re-build which will add a large amount of extra labour cost to be considered.
Engineers and Architects will also need to make changes in plans at times to caters for things not being built as a whole, these things they do not do for free.

All of the above are just some of the reasons why a smaller staged build that will not include the full scope of works as the full tear down and re-build will still likely cost as much if not more.


And in case you think I am just
Pulling things out of my ass,
I have been a Buildier for the last 30 years including my apprenticeship.
So do know a little bit about the game.

BigFooty is not the place for this kind of sensible and informed talk. Don't do it again.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Don't know.

I do know that the staged rebuild is considered by some inside the club as a less costly exercise and that the IOC along with QLD Govt are seriously looking at what the alternatives are. These alternative studies may already be completed (i am led to believe they have) and now it's a matter of ensuring they meet the IOC standard for a stadium before they let the pidgeons loose next month.

Aren't they doves? Of peace?

 

[T Rick]

Danny Daly in his most recent SEN interview last night seemed to confirm that the Gabba would NOT be knocked down and he was very relieved about that apparent decision...
Sounds like the scorched earth option is dead in the water.

 

[M Malice]

Danny Daly in his most recent SEN interview last night seemed to confirm that the Gabba would NOT be knocked down and he was very relieved about that apparent decision...
Sounds like the scorched earth option is dead in the water.

I really hope we end up with a world class stadium whether it be a brand new build at the RNA/Victoria Park or a staged refurbishment at the Gabba.

The Government will no doubt be basing it's decision on maximising it's re-election chances and not on long term multi decade benefits... no budget Ikea stadium option please.

 

[Elixuh]

I really hope we end up with a world class stadium whether it be a brand new build at the RNA/Victoria Park or a staged refurbishment at the Gabba.

The Government will no doubt be basing it's decision on maximising it's re-election chances and not on long term multi decade benefits... no budget Ikea stadium option please.

I've always thought Griffin Park is under utilised as a world class AFL venue.