News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Mighty Lions]

I am no engineer, but is it feasible to raise the height of probably the eastern and western side of the stadium with the purpose to increase seating capacity above 50,000. Build a tunnel or overpass (tunnel more aesthetically pleasing) linking the newly built athletic 'warm up' track to the GABBA and Brissy has arguably a decent facility that is close to Southbank and reasonably close to the city as opposed to Mt Gravatt

I dont know as I also am not qualified to say but I am sure there are people looking at that and more as we speak. I guess it will depend on what the Olympic people insist on having incorportaed in an Olympic venue.

 

[Andyz]

Heh, apologies, you got me started on a subject I enjoy talking about.


Sure, that's true. However, I think it's fair to say that transport meets a more basic human need than professional sport does. Or at least there's fewer substitutes available for that need that don't themselves cause other problems. The same is true of health or education or housing. That's why there is never enough of those things in many people's opinions.

Now that doesn't mean stadiums should never be funded by government, but when there are severe problems with any of those higher needs (eg poor housing affordability, increasing homelessness or ambulance ramping), it's only natural that people will want to have some serious reassurance that those are being addressed first, before they see a big outlay on a lesser human need like a stadium. Particularly if neither AFL, Cricket nor the Olympics meets their need for entertainment very well. And unfortunately, governments at all levels have not been seen to be doing enough on housing affordability, homelessness or ambulance ramping.

There are so many ways to address this post….firstly the IOC are contributing 2.5b for this event….are we to pocket it and build nothing? And host an Aldi Olympics? That will do a lot for our international reputation.

Secondly stadiums are required not just for a sense of community & generating jobs but also to stimulate the economy & bringing people here which helps all local businesses.

Housing affordability is a totally seperate issue - and driven predominately by immigration intake &

Interesting how your opinion of a re-build is so strong and how critical & closed minded you are of any other option other than total destruction of what we have now and then re-bulid.
Our club management are smart in not getting heavily involved in this sh** fight with the Govt &/or The Olympics Committee Officials. At some time there will be a decision made with what is going to happen and if Cricket QLD &/or The Lions are actively against whatever they decide to do, it wont help us in any way....The old saying of you catch more bees with honey rather than vinegar seriously applies in this situation. An agressive stance doesn't help us at all.

So...that said, this is close to the decision that will be made next month (in my opinion) :

The total rebuild (as in destroy what we have now and start from scratch) will be scrapped. (already has from what I am hearing)
A structured re-build of The Gabba will be commissioned (With The Olympic Committee's guidance regarding what they will agree to as an acceptable standard.)

I'm pretty confident thats what we will be told in more detail soon.

Well the club did get involved, most likely because they started to fear they are going to miss out entirely & end up stuck with a little antiquated old ground. And now Ca have effectively weighed in too, so if the politicians can’t hear the noise building they well & truly have their heads buried.

If the Lions & Ca don’t fight for what they want then they’re less likely to receive what they want….the noise made by a 300 student school would be background noise to all the lions Supporters & members let alone cricket fans. The gov’t cannot afford to ignore that many voters. I can’t work out why the Gov’t is not championing the opportunity presented to Brissie by these games, they seem scared & almost pretending they aren’t happening….total missed opportunity imo.


“Destroy what we have” - yes that’s entirely the point!
And doing it in one blow so it’s quicker & the end result is better makes the most sense.

If we end up with a piecework stadium it just won’t be as good an end result for all that money & if the only rebuild the E & W stands it will be a total missed opportunity for a world class stadium with 1/2 of the increase in capacity being higher up & further from the field than would be necessary in a total rebuild. Additionally the E stand will directly face the late afternoon sun making it useless for anything around 3pm - 5pm or so.

Hopefully they make the best long term decision that delivers us something we are all super excited to live near & attend rather than spend the same $$ (or more) to have less of a result just bc of the inconvenience of a rebuild &/or political reasons.

 

[western royboy]

It’s a long time since I’ve been to the GABBA. I recall parking in someone’s front yard for $20 before enjoying a masterclass from the 3 peaters in their pomp. Was a good night and a great little cauldron venue.

Fortunately I’m an MCC member and the facility we have is first class but aside from it we’ve got 3 totally acceptable sporting facilities, Rod Laver, Marvel & AAMI Park. Each capable of holding major events outside their designated sports. We’ve had Tay Tay and Pink down here the past two weeks at different venues and all shows sold out. The Tay Tay effect was worth something like $1.75M to the hotel industry alone.

Brisbane this is your chance to get something that will provide a legacy and from where I sit (a long, long away) it has to be the GABBA - it has to become your MCG. I love Lang Park my dear old Granny lived half way up the hill in Guthrie Street Paddington (what a walk home pissed from the Paddo or Cacko”) but it can’t hold a candle to getting this right. Hopefully common sense will prevail and they get this right

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There are so many ways to address this post….firstly the IOC are contributing 2.5b for this event….are we to pocket it and build nothing?

I don't recall saying "build nothing". Mind showing me where I said it please?

And host an Aldi Olympics? That will do a lot for our international reputation.

How many billions do you want to spend on it, exactly? Bearing in mind opportunity cost has to be factored in.

Secondly stadiums are required not just for a sense of community & generating jobs but also to stimulate the economy & bringing people here which helps all local businesses.

There are a million other ways of spending money that have a bigger multiplier effect for the local economy than knocking down a stadium to rebuild it anew in the same place.

 

[Section 5]

There are a million other ways of spending money that have a bigger multiplier effect for the local economy than knocking down a stadium to rebuild it anew in the same place.

Johnny B, there may be other ways of spending money that may have a bigger multiplier effect. But are they Olympic Games related.
We are talking about the Olympic Games so any project you think of must be related to Olympic sport with a legacy impact.
A "million other ways" is about close to a million too many though.

When the stadium was announced, the below project would be considered a good multiplier just to start with.
This one project would help with the housing issue too.
Note the plans were lodged 1 week before the article dated 23/08/2023.
All tied into the new Wooloongabba PDA plan with The Gabba front and center.

Another tower proposal to transform Gabba’s heart

The $1.5b four-tower development – the latest in a series of proposals to transform Woolloongabba – would feature almost 1400 build-to-rent units.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Johnny B, there may be other ways of spending money that may have a bigger multiplier effect. But are they Olympic Games related.

Yes, there are more cost effective options like a staged rebuild that will do everything you want for the Olympics and leave more money to spend on other needs.

When the stadium was announced, the below project would be considered a good multiplier just to start with.
This one project would help with the housing issue too.
Note the plans were lodged 1 week before the article dated 23/08/2023.
All tied into the new Wooloongabba PDA plan with The Gabba front and center.

Another tower proposal to transform Gabba’s heart

The $1.5b four-tower development – the latest in a series of proposals to transform Woolloongabba – would feature almost 1400 build-to-rent units.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

View attachment 1912174

Great! But we need much more than that. It's not enough to just build housing, those people also require infrastructure, parks, schools, etc. And the public housing waiting list is over 30 000 people. Saving money and getting a good outcome for the Olympics is the best of all worlds.

 

[M Malice]

Great! But we need much more than that. It's not enough to just build housing, those people also require infrastructure, parks, schools, etc. And the public housing waiting list is over 30 000 people. Saving money and getting a good outcome for the Olympics is the best of all worlds.

Isn't the infrastructure already part of the overall Gabba Precinct/Olympic development plans JB eg. Cross river rail, pedestrian and cycle ways to the CBD/Southbank, expanding of Coorparoo College, bus interchange upgrade, and isn't a certain amount of green space required for approval of high rise accommodation.

Added to all that is the M1 is a mere few hundred meters from the Gabba.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Isn't the infrastructure already part of the overall Gabba Precinct/Olympic development plans JB eg. Cross river rail, pedestrian and cycle ways to the CBD/Southbank, expanding of Coorparoo College, bus interchange upgrade,

Infrastructure is more than just transport infrastructure. It's also green space, community facilities, recreation facilities and locally accessible schools. As I've said before, I don't consider Coorparoo to be local enough for a school given the projected future population of Woolloongabba.

and isn't a certain amount of green space required for approval of high rise accommodation.

Those requirements are a bad joke. Plenty of towers have gone up in Woolloongabba in the past five years, but what new green space has been added? To top it off, the Olympic planners want to take the one major community park in the area (Raymond Park) for a warm up facility. What benefit will these people receive in exchange for losing their park and having their neighbourhood awash with crowds?

Added to all that is the M1 is a mere few hundred meters from the Gabba.

I think it's the M3 at that point, but semantics aside, you can't service dense inner city area sufficiently with highways. There isn't enough road space once you factor in everyone coming from further out. The public and active transport changes are welcome but need to go further. There should be a heck of a lot more buses going to Coorparoo if they want to shift the school there, for example.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Yes, there are more cost effective options like a staged rebuild that will do everything you want for the Olympics and leave more money to spend on other needs.

From the $ estimates I've seen in this thread and other places this is not correct. A staged rebuild apparently will cost more?

 

[Section 5]

Yes, there are more cost effective options like a staged rebuild that will do everything you want for the Olympics and leave more money to spend on other needs.


Great! But we need much more than that. It's not enough to just build housing, those people also require infrastructure, parks, schools, etc. And the public housing waiting list is over 30 000 people. Saving money and getting a good outcome for the Olympics is the best of all worlds.

Bolded: Once again you are going way off-track regarding money being spent on the Olympics.
I get it, you want a staged rebuild at very questionable costs. Also, a very questionable Gabba capacity during the staged rebuild.
Then you want the State and Federal Governments to build Schools parks etc.

Let's say the review panel comes back with a saving of say $800 million and the government go with whatever that is.
That $800 million won't go into schools, parks etc, however, it may go into infostructure tied to the Olympics.

On the schools' point, as you know a new school down the road at Coorparoo is being built, but that money is from general revenue which will come from the Education part of the budget.
The Education Department and all other budget departments (Federal/State/Local) are adjusted each year for future needs.
That's just how things work.
Governments of all persuasions are always being slammed the next day for not spending enough money on certain sections of the budget.
That's because they can or should only spend money available (revenue) without going into deficit which they regularly do.

The Olympics generates revenue without the prior need to raise duties, charges income/payroll/corporate/excise taxes to the public, small business and medium to large companies.

You just can't get your head around the difference between Governments spending for the good of the community year in year out, compared to Olympic spending with a large revenue source to hopefully cover that spending.

The end result could be the Brisbane games may run at a loss.
Sydney did to the tune of $1.5 billion without taking into consideration tourism money. Still considered a successful games though.
Or Brisbane could break even as in the case of London also without taking tourism into consideration.
Then of course i have to mention Tokyo and the covid disaster. How unlucky were they.
They could not sell tickets or get tourism revenue from both local and overseas as no one was allowed into the country or the venues.
Tokyo costs $13 billion with a loss of $7.2 billion so that was a disaster for the city and the country.
However, they still received $5.8 billion in revenue from the IOC mostly being media money as the games were still broadcast worldwide.

The public housing waiting list has been very long since the 70's probably earlier, but what has that got to do with the Olympics. Once again that is part of a normal budget process on all 3 levels of Government.

The infostructure part i agree with and my submission to the Review panel will funnel $1 billion into that area.
That submission also included a full rebuild of The Gabba so it can be done in my opinion.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Johnny B, there may be other ways of spending money that may have a bigger multiplier effect. But are they Olympic Games related.
We are talking about the Olympic Games so any project you think of must be related to Olympic sport with a legacy impact.
A "million other ways" is about close to a million too many though.

When the stadium was announced, the below project would be considered a good multiplier just to start with.
This one project would help with the housing issue too.
Note the plans were lodged 1 week before the article dated 23/08/2023.
All tied into the new Wooloongabba PDA plan with The Gabba front and center.

Another tower proposal to transform Gabba’s heart

The $1.5b four-tower development – the latest in a series of proposals to transform Woolloongabba – would feature almost 1400 build-to-rent units.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

View attachment 1912174

Bolded: Once again you are going way off-track regarding money being spent on the Olympics.
I get it, you want a staged rebuild at very questionable costs. Also, a very questionable Gabba capacity during the staged rebuild.
Then you want the State and Federal Governments to build Schools parks etc.

Let's say the review panel comes back with a saving of say $800 million and the government go with whatever that is.
That $800 million won't go into schools, parks etc, however, it may go into infostructure tied to the Olympics.

On the schools' point, as you know a new school down the road at Coorparoo is being built, but that money is from general revenue which will come from the Education part of the budget.
The Education Department and all other budget departments (Federal/State/Local) are adjusted each year for future needs.
That's just how things work.
Governments of all persuasions are always being slammed the next day for not spending enough money on certain sections of the budget.
That's because they can or should only spend money available (revenue) without going into deficit which they regularly do.

The Olympics generates revenue without the prior need to raise duties, charges income/payroll/corporate/excise taxes to the public, small business and medium to large companies.

You just can't get your head around the difference between Governments spending for the good of the community year in year out, compared to Olympic spending with a large revenue source to hopefully cover that spending.

The end result could be the Brisbane games may run at a loss.
Sydney did to the tune of $1.5 billion without taking into consideration tourism money. Still considered a successful games though.
Or Brisbane could break even as in the case of London also without taking tourism into consideration.
Then of course i have to mention Tokyo and the covid disaster. How unlucky were they.
They could not sell tickets or get tourism revenue from both local and overseas as no one was allowed into the country or the venues.
Tokyo costs $13 billion with a loss of $7.2 billion so that was a disaster for the city and the country.
However, they still received $5.8 billion in revenue from the IOC mostly being media money as the games were still broadcast worldwide.

The public housing waiting list has been very long since the 70's probably earlier, but what has that got to do with the Olympics. Once again that is part of a normal budget process on all 3 levels of Government.

The infostructure part i agree with and my submission to the Review panel will funnel $1 billion into that area.
That submission also included a full rebuild of The Gabba so it can be done in my opinion.

Not happening.... (full re-build) in my opinion.

 

[Section 5]

Not happening.... (full re-build) in my opinion.

We can't really take an opinion as "Not happening"

Same as my line of thinking may or may not happen until we find out around the 18/3/24.

Just over 3 weeks till we get more information.
Hopefully we have 1 win on the board v Blues when some leaks start happening on the review recommendations.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

From the $ estimates I've seen in this thread and other places this is not correct. A staged rebuild apparently will cost more?

I think those figures are about as legitimate as a $9 note. Remember the government wanted a certain outcome and they can (unofficially) instruct whoever they hire to give them the results that confirm their predetermined decision. I've seen this happen personally in both the public and private sectors.

 

[Andyz]

We can't really take an opinion as "Not happening"

Same as my line of thinking may or may not happen until we find out around the 18/3/24.

Just over 3 weeks till we get more information.
Hopefully we have 1 win on the board v Blues when some leaks start happening on the review recommendations.

It will be fascinating if they release all their plans & costings, but I wonder if we’ll only receive the information supporting their end decision?

I’m no engineer but it’s hard to see how they could excavate enough to have bigger cantilevered grandstands on the N & S ends without eating into the ground surface - and they are the stands that are on the wings which is the best viewing…

I hope as part of the review we are provided with benefits to the local economy from a larger ground too - the naysayers carry on about the cost but never look at the benefits of larger attendance & more events to our city. And the Lions deserve a ground large enough to house their members too rather than be lumbered with an outdated & undersized stadium.

 

[Section 5]

It will be fascinating if they release all their plans & costings, but I wonder if we’ll only receive the information supporting their end decision?

I’m no engineer but it’s hard to see how they could excavate enough to have bigger cantilevered grandstands on the N & S ends without eating into the ground surface - and they are the stands that are on the wings which is the best viewing…

I hope as part of the review we are provided with benefits to the local economy from a larger ground too - the naysayers carry on about the cost but never look at the benefits of larger attendance & more events to our city. And the Lions deserve a ground large enough to house their members too rather than be lumbered with an outdated & undersized stadium.

I suggested in my submission that they need to break down the costings (but not necessarily fully detailed) of their preferred option.
Or maybe recommend the Government do so ASAP on whatever the review panel decide is the best option.
Example knocking down "Gabba Towers" in a green manner is $??? and so on

Stating an amount in the $billions just gets people thinking how can it be that costly.

 

[Mighty Lions]

We can't really take an opinion as "Not happening"

Same as my line of thinking may or may not happen until we find out around the 18/3/24.

Just over 3 weeks till we get more information.
Hopefully we have 1 win on the board v Blues when some leaks start happening on the review recommendations.

You can take anything you want....not sure who "we" is.

 

[Mighty Lions]

It will be fascinating if they release all their plans & costings, but I wonder if we’ll only receive the information supporting their end decision?

I’m no engineer but it’s hard to see how they could excavate enough to have bigger cantilevered grandstands on the N & S ends without eating into the ground surface - and they are the stands that are on the wings which is the best viewing…

I hope as part of the review we are provided with benefits to the local economy from a larger ground too - the naysayers carry on about the cost but never look at the benefits of larger attendance & more events to our city. And the Lions deserve a ground large enough to house their members too rather than be lumbered with an outdated & undersized stadium.

Thats it really...leave it to the experts who know. I'm sure they wont make any decision without the appropriate people's professional advice on how to do a job right.
I doubt they need to explain anything in huge detail but the spin doctors will 100% be out there telling us what they want us to hear and no more.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I think those figures are about as legitimate as a $9 note. Remember the government wanted a certain outcome and they can (unofficially) instruct whoever they hire to give them the results that confirm their predetermined decision. I've seen this happen personally in both the public and private sectors.

If a staged re-build costs more than a demo/rebuild, the staged one wont go ahead.
That said, I believe the proposed staged re-build will be significantly less expensive.

 

[Section 5]

If a staged re-build costs more than a demo/rebuild, the staged one wont go ahead.
That said, I believe the proposed staged re-build will be significantly less expensive.

Mighty Lions
I would really like to know where this "staged rebuild" you keep talking about is or has been proposed and costed.
It has not found light of day to my knowledge.
Going on your posts i believe it came from someone you have had discussions with on the matter.
They could be super qualified to make an assessment but until details are put to the test it is just an observation.
Even if it was out there somewhere it does not fall within "the terms of reference" being agreements and documents the Review committee are looking at.
As such how can an invisible "staged rebuild" plan get the go ahead from the Review panel.

The only "proposed stage rebuild" on record are these three below.
The only one that meets Olympic requirements is option 4 and that is $3.17 billion.

At the end of the day whatever the review committee recommends should go ahead ASAP.
It does not really matter if i agree or disagree with their decision.
The project needs to move forward both politically and for the parties that will be involved in construction and final design and costs.

After this decision is made only then can we move on to where the Lions could play during this time.

 

[T Rick]

Mighty Lions
I would really like to know where this "staged rebuild" you keep talking about is or has been proposed and costed.
It has not found light of day to my knowledge.
Going on your posts i believe it came from someone you have had discussions with on the matter.
They could be super qualified to make an assessment but until details are put to the test it is just an observation.
Even if it was out there somewhere it does not fall within "the terms of reference" being agreements and documents the Review committee are looking at.
As such how can an invisible "staged rebuild" plan get the go ahead from the Review panel.

The only "proposed stage rebuild" on record are these three below.
The only one that meets Olympic requirements is option 4 and that is $3.17 billion.

At the end of the day whatever the review committee recommends should go ahead ASAP.
It does not really matter if i agree or disagree with their decision.
The project needs to move forward both politically and for the parties that will be involved in construction and final design and costs.

After this decision is made only then can we move on to where the Lions could play during this time.

View attachment 1912980

I'm pretty sure Chris Fagan first mentioned "staged rebuild" in one of his recent interviews - said words to the effect that he didn't know what would happen but that he had heard something about a "staged rebuild" option being considered.

 

[Section 5]

I'm pretty sure Chris Fagan first mentioned "staged rebuild" in one of his recent interviews - said words to the effect that he didn't know what would happen but that he had heard something about a "staged rebuild" option being considered.

The Lions would prefer a staged rebuild as then they get to stay at the Gabba.
Maybe that will happen, but it won't be cheaper than a full rebuild.

Also, members thinking there will be lots of seats available will get a shock.
There may not be enough seating to accommodate our season members.
Thats assuming they decide to take up a lot of the crappy seating which will be available.

 

[Jirik13]

Not sure why people completely ignore benefits - Executive Summary from 2021 mentions long-term 17.6B for Australia.

Also mostly ignored, IOC is giving a couple of billions to Brisbane. It essentially covers a new stadium.

Best solution - a new stadium on a green site (provided a good transport is available). Making a lot of momey by selling off Gabba site after Olympic games.
2nd best solution - a full rebuild of Gabba.
Cheapest solution - upgrade Carrara (capacity 40-45K), hold ceremonies, athletics there. I guess 500M should do.

All those partial/gradual re-builds plans above look like a joke. Clearly inferior products with the same/higher cost.

Of course, there is an option to abandon Games. Tokyo deserves to reap some benefits from existing infrastructure.

Looking forward to the report next month. If all previous analyses were done properly, it should come up with the same original plans. But I bet politics will determine the outcome.

 

[weevil]

You could get it back to around 39/40k with some changes but not 42k.
The improvements to corporates and larger video screens can't really be changed.
Austadiums finally changed the Gabba official capacity to 37k early in 2023 after many years being incorrect.
The Lions v Tigers finals game in 2019 was 37,478

View attachment 1910671

And the quoted 50k capacity for a rebuild is actually the minimum. Once the Games were finished the capacity would be expected to go up to 55k.

 

[weevil]

The total rebuild (as in destroy what we have now and start from scratch) will be scrapped. (already has from what I am hearing)
A structured re-build of The Gabba will be commissioned (With The Olympic Committee's guidance regarding what they will agree to as an acceptable standard.)

I'm pretty confident thats what we will be told in more detail soon.

The IOC having some flexibility with their requirements could solve a lot of problems because all the other options look unworkable, either practically or politically.

A structured rebuild may not make the most long-term sense, but it might be the expedient solution that gets it over the line.

 

[M Malice]

A staged rebuild of the Gabba would be fine as long as we end up with a world class stadium not a patch up job that needs substantial work a decade or so after the Olympics.