News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Johnny Bananas]

The problem with ideas like this is that they are over ambitious, unrealistic and a tough sell, especially when the number 1 sport isn’t involved. If cricket and footy and some people in government want a new oval stadium, they need to shoot for 45k - 50k. Making it bigger than Suncorp puts 3/4s of the state offside.

Then the rest of the state would complain that spending billions of dollars for a capacity increase of only 10-12k isn't worth it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[Walshawk]

Then the rest of the state would complain that spending billions of dollars for a capacity increase of only 10-12k isn't worth it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Just have to sell it properly. Cricket doesn’t need a bigger stadium, another 12k is enough for the Lions. That is a 33% increase in capacity.

 

[dlanod]

Then the rest of the state would complain that spending billions of dollars for a capacity increase of only 10-12k isn't worth it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Just have to sell it properly. Cricket doesn’t need a bigger stadium, another 12k is enough for the Lions. That is a 33% increase in capacity.

Yep.

"The review shows we need to spend $1.8b to refurbish the Gabba because of its end of life in 2030. We can spend $3b for a 40,000 seat Gabba in the same location or $2b for a brand new 60,000 seat capacity stadium at Victoria Park. It's basically financial incompetence to not build that stadium!"

 

[Section 5]

Harvey Lister is the Director of AEG Ogden, with 21 venues under management as part of the AEG Worldwide network of 130+ venues. In Brisbane, AEG Ogden operates the Brisbane Entertainment Centre, the Brisbane Convention and Exhibition Centre and Suncorp Stadium.

Harvey Lister in that interview mentioned only 50% of the land is owned by the State Government.
That is a lot of land resumptions to get done in a short period of time.
If true i doubt it can be achieved as we are not China.

Even though he was giving praise to the idea he mentions to his knowledge nothing of this scale money wise (private funding $6 billion) has been done worldwide.
Also noted the safety aspect of getting 60K people out of that stadium in a short period of time.

I wish they asked Lister about his companys interest in getting the Brisbane Arena contract, being one of three interested parties.
Lister has been pursuing this entertainmemnt concept for many years.
Also, could have asked him about the urgent validation report and business case on the new proposed Roma Street Parklands carpark site and surrounds.
This was ordered by Miles after the Quirk report recommendations just over 5 months ago.
These are things he would be on top of but unlikely to say anything negative about the government as he would not like to put them offside.

 

[Walshawk]

Yep.

"The review shows we need to spend $1.8b to refurbish the Gabba because of its end of life in 2030. We can spend $3b for a 40,000 seat Gabba in the same location or $2b for a brand new 60,000 seat capacity stadium at Victoria Park. It's basically financial incompetence to not build that stadium!"

It might appease the people if the AFL and Cricket contribute a token amount to the new stadium. Gabba is not a good outcome if there is nowhere for AFL and cricket to play for four years.

 

[Section 5]

Yep.

"The review shows we need to spend $1.8b to refurbish the Gabba because of its end of life in 2030. We can spend $3b for a 40,000 seat Gabba in the same location or $2b for a brand new 60,000 seat capacity stadium at Victoria Park. It's basically financial incompetence to not build that stadium!"

Agree completely on the financial incompetence.

If a new stadium could be built for $2,000,000,000 you can just scrape in with the allocated State funds.
It would still be much better and easier to organize if they changed the agreement to 50/50 split of the $7,000,000,000

Politicians bullshit all the time with figures so you can make a case to get a new stadium done.
From the Quirk report he stated $3,000,000,000 plus just for a stadium.
However, later proposals have 3 venues for $3,400,000,000 so maybe $2,000,000,000 is possible. Who would know.

Allocated funds as they stand now:
QSAC: $1,600,000,000.
Improvements to The Gabba: $500,000,000
Improvements to Lang Park/Suncorp: $500,000,000
Minor Venue Sites: $900,000,000.
Total $3,500,000,000 the agreed funding.

QSAC, The Gabba, Suncorp and Minor Venue are specifically mentioned in the new agreement.

Allocated funds if building a new stadium at Victoria Park.
Telstra? Victoria Park Stadium: Let's increase it slightly $2,100,000,000
Gabba Improvements: $500,000,000
Lang Park/Suncorp no funding needed if a new stadium goes ahead.
Minor Venue Sites: State governments share: $900,000,000
Total funding from the state: $3,500,000,000 being the agreed funding

 

[notliondown]

Yep.

"The review shows we need to spend $1.8b to refurbish the Gabba because of its end of life in 2030. We can spend $3b for a 40,000 seat Gabba in the same location or $2b for a brand new 60,000 seat capacity stadium at Victoria Park. It's basically financial incompetence to not build that stadium!"

And lets not forget all of these discussions have been based on numbers that Miles now admits have been pulled from the arses of public service with either little or no due diligence.

It's very hard to have a realistic discussion when the supposed facts are just fairy tales.

And it's no wonder the public loses their minds when it costs twice as much as the make believe number.

 

[dlanod]

Gabba Improvements: $500,000,000

This should go to zero, or be viewed as net income if the Gabba land is sold off.

 

[Section 5]

Further to the financial incompetence.
A reminder of what was in the Quirk report on The Gabba, and this is just a summary.
Also, a small part of the panel recommending Victoria Park.

This should go to zero, or be viewed as net income if the Gabba land is sold off.

 

[Section 5]

This should go to zero, or be viewed as net income if the Gabba land is sold off.

In the end yes if The Gabba land does get sold.
I am not sure Labor or the LNP would try and sell it that way as selling that land won't come into play until 2033 and beyond.

They would best sell it to the public as:
New stadium is costing $??? and selling the Gabba in 2032/33 with inflation will more than cover the costs of a new stadium.
Whether it does or not, won't matter. Certainly, better than putting a billion plus into bringing The Gabba up to code in 2032

I see that as an easy sell to the electorate or should be anyhow.
Simple and realistic for the public to understand.
More importantly easy for politicians to say in a few words that shouldn't get misquoted.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Everything old is new again, as stadium proposal shows

The Northshore proposal borrows heavily from a 26-year-old plan for the same site. But at this stage, all stadium options need to be explored.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Includes a poll with the following responses. Mind you, you can vote multiple times on it so it isn't very scientific.

 

[GCS in 11]

New article in the Courier Mail, Greg Swann is calling for a new central 55,000 seat stadium

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/brisbane-lions-boss-greg-swann-demands-new-55000seat-stadium-in-city/news-story/1f17b97d37ecf16cc572567a7222604f

Brisbane Lions boss Greg Swann demands new 55,000-seat stadium in city​

The chief executive of the Brisbane Lions has thrown his support behind calls for new oval stadium saying it would service the city for “the next four decades and beyond”.

“Saturday’s match (against Essendon) is our eighth sell out for the season, we’ve signed on a record 62,000 members this year and participation at community level is at an all-time high,” Mr Swann said.
“Given the growth outlook for Queensland’s population, our game, and the Gabba approaching end of life, as we have said previously, we believe it is critical that the viability of a new oval stadium is investigated.”

The calls come days after it was announced Queensland will not feature in Cricket Australia’s plans for Test matches after next year’s Ashes due to ongoing uncertainty over the future of the Gabba.
“Any new venue needs to be in a central location, integrated with public transport, have sufficient capacity of around 55,000 to service the growing needs of the city and the state’s events and tourism economy and be close to a precinct that can be activated to support pre- and post-game activities for patrons,” Mr Swann said.
“This facility would service Brisbane for the next four decades and beyond.”

 

[Elixuh]

And here we go

 

[Billy ray]

everyone in public discussion from now on must call QSAC by its rightful name (as mentioned by someoe else here, and that is "QSAC (Raygun stadium)"

 

[lions2010]

Agree completely on the financial incompetence.

If a new stadium could be built for $2,000,000,000 you can just scrape in with the allocated State funds.
It would still be much better and easier to organize if they changed the agreement to 50/50 split of the $7,000,000,000

Politicians bullshit all the time with figures so you can make a case to get a new stadium done.
From the Quirk report he stated $3,000,000,000 plus just for a stadium.
However, later proposals have 3 venues for $3,400,000,000 so maybe $2,000,000,000 is possible. Who would know.

Allocated funds as they stand now:
QSAC: $1,600,000,000.
Improvements to The Gabba: $500,000,000
Improvements to Lang Park/Suncorp: $500,000,000
Minor Venue Sites: $900,000,000.
Total $3,500,000,000 the agreed funding.

QSAC, The Gabba, Suncorp and Minor Venue are specifically mentioned in the new agreement.

Allocated funds if building a new stadium at Victoria Park.
Telstra? Victoria Park Stadium: Let's increase it slightly $2,100,000,000
Gabba Improvements: $500,000,000
Lang Park/Suncorp no funding needed if a new stadium goes ahead.
Minor Venue Sites: State governments share: $900,000,000
Total funding from the state: $3,500,000,000 being the agreed funding

In my opinion, there needs to be more focus on the revenue that can be earnt for building a new stadoum instead of just the costs to do it. The business case seems to be all about the costs or cost avoidance.

Naming rights is a simple example of how to recoup a good portion of the investment.

Just look at the new LA Clippers stadium in which the naming rights for Intuit generates a reported 500M USD in income.

 

[M Malice]

In my opinion, there needs to be more focus on the revenue that can be earnt for building a new stadoum instead of just the costs to do it. The business case seems to be all about the costs or cost avoidance.

Naming rights is a simple example of how to recoup a good portion of the investment.

Just look at the new LA Clippers stadium in which the naming rights for Intuit generates a reported 500M USD in income.

Plus the flow on benefits re accommodation and dining around the precinct. You only have to walk past the cafes and restaurants pre game around the Gabba to see how many people are frequenting dining/drinking options.

Call it Wagner Group Stadium for all I care as long as they are the highest bidder.

 

[Section 5]

In my opinion, there needs to be more focus on the revenue that can be earnt for building a new stadoum instead of just the costs to do it. The business case seems to be all about the costs or cost avoidance.

Naming rights is a simple example of how to recoup a good portion of the investment.

Just look at the new LA Clippers stadium in which the naming rights for Intuit generates a reported 500M USD in income.

I am a huge fan of noting revenue when talking about the costs of projects. Like the Brisbane Olympics.
Government funding AU$7,000,000,000 less IOC guaranteed minimum of AU$2,600,000,000 = AU$4,400,000,000
Does not look as bad. Even better when you budget over 10 years being $440,000,000 per year.

The LA clippers deal you mentioned is over 23 years so no upfront money, but close to $22 million a year so a great income stream

However, stadiums are usually built by governments, in Australia at least, as income generated is not sufficient to repay the costs of the build.
The Government retain the asset and appoint someone to run the stadium like the MCG Trust for the MCG
The revenue could probably pay off some of the interest bill each year.

Below an extract from the MCG 2022/3 annual report.
This includes all revenue from AFL/Cricket/Soccer/Concerts, less expenses.
The MCG made $4.72 million profit in 2022/23 i can't find the next annual report.


The annual report from Stadiums Queensland puts all Queensland venues on the one report so hard to say how Suncorp and the Gabba fared.
The Venues: Suncorp Stadium, The Gabba, Cbus Super Stadium (formerly Skilled Park), Metricon Stadium, 1300SMILES Stadium, Queensland Tennis Centre, Sleeman Sports Complex, Brisbane Entertainment Centre and the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre.
All venues resulted in a combined loss of $28.8 million
....................................................................................
Naming rights is a good source of revenue for stadiums.
In March 2019 the Queensland Government finally put The Gabba up for naming rights but no takers so far.
At the time it was reported they wanted $2 million PA, but no one come close to that figure.

However, you can't compare deals done in the US to Australia.
For instance, the new Optus stadium in Perth is for $5 million a year.
The article link below is dated 2017 but some of these deals are over many years. Article also mentions overseas venues.

How the Optus naming rights deal for Perth Stadium stacks up

Optus secures the naming rights for the soon-to-be-completed Perth Stadium in a deal worth an estimated $50 million for WA over the next 10 years — so how does the financial return compare?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Section 5]

Plus the flow on benefits re accommodation and dining around the precinct. You only have to walk past the cafes and restaurants pre game around the Gabba to see how many people are frequenting dining/drinking options.

Call it Wagner Group Stadium for all I care as long as they are the highest bidder.

One of the benefits of the Gabba for footy fans is the accommodation, cafes and restaurants in or close to the venue.
It will be difficult or unlikely to find space and to get approval to get this in the Victoria Park precinct.
Getting the approval for a stadium at Victoria Park will be hard enough and i doubt they could include a food precinct
The closest food is at 2 hospitals STARS & the RBWH cafes.
A few small cafes in Bowen Bridge Road opposite the RBWH
Houses start and continue from UQ Herston all the way along Herston Road.
Similar across the proposed green walkway leading to Gregory Terrace. Parkland and houses/units
The Normanby Hotel might benefit as a bus station is across the road.

I see people finding a spot that suits them and getting public transport to the venue after.
The new stadium could very well have a variety of food options with similar costs to what's available around the Gabba.
They could cater for sit down diners by having access not only inside the venue but outside too on event days.

 

[Footballator]

If you build it - they will come...

 

[Grasshopper17]

One of the benefits of the Gabba for footy fans is the accommodation, cafes and restaurants in or close to the venue.
It will be difficult or unlikely to find space and to get approval to get this in the Victoria Park precinct.
Getting the approval for a stadium at Victoria Park will be hard enough and i doubt they could include a food precinct
The closest food is at 2 hospitals STARS & the RBWH cafes.
A few small cafes in Bowen Bridge Road opposite the RBWH
Houses start and continue from UQ Herston all the way along Herston Road.
Similar across the proposed green walkway leading to Gregory Terrace. Parkland and houses/units
The Normanby Hotel might benefit as a bus station is across the road.

I see people finding a spot that suits them and getting public transport to the venue after.
The new stadium could very well have a variety of food options with similar costs to what's available around the Gabba.
They could cater for sit down diners by having access not only inside the venue but outside too on event days.

The MCG has done ok without a similar precinct of note. As has Adelaide Oval really. Perth Stadium has The Camfield, which is enormous but is literally all there is. The SCG has the Entertainment Quarter but it's not really suited to big post-match crowds, particularly at night, when most of them have already closed. In Sydney you're best off meandering back towards Central station and stopping in at any number of the old school 19th century pubs dotted along Cleveland, Devonshire or Fouveaux Streets. Heck, even Oxford St if you're so inclined.

Not every stadium needs to have Caxton St is what I'm trying to say I suppose.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Forgetting the King St precinct. Not out of the question they could include some food options as part of a redevelopment plan. I think the eating options at Vic Park were slated to remain as BCC's vision also.

 

[Walshawk]

The MCG has done ok without a similar precinct of note. As has Adelaide Oval really. Perth Stadium has The Camfield, which is enormous but is literally all there is. The SCG has the Entertainment Quarter but it's not really suited to big post-match crowds, particularly at night, when most of them have already closed. In Sydney you're best off meandering back towards Central station and stopping in at any number of the old school 19th century pubs dotted along Cleveland, Devonshire or Fouveaux Streets. Heck, even Oxford St if you're so inclined.

Not every stadium needs to have Caxton St is what I'm trying to say I suppose.

5r MCG literally has 20 pubs, 20 restaurants and 20 bars within a short walk. Triple that within a longer walk.
Adelaide is similar.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

One of the benefits of the Gabba for footy fans is the accommodation, cafes and restaurants in or close to the venue.
It will be difficult or unlikely to find space and to get approval to get this in the Victoria Park precinct.
Getting the approval for a stadium at Victoria Park will be hard enough and i doubt they could include a food precinct
The closest food is at 2 hospitals STARS & the RBWH cafes.
A few small cafes in Bowen Bridge Road opposite the RBWH
Houses start and continue from UQ Herston all the way along Herston Road.
Similar across the proposed green walkway leading to Gregory Terrace. Parkland and houses/units
The Normanby Hotel might benefit as a bus station is across the road.

I see people finding a spot that suits them and getting public transport to the venue after.
The new stadium could very well have a variety of food options with similar costs to what's available around the Gabba.
They could cater for sit down diners by having access not only inside the venue but outside too on event days.

Really depends which part of the park they'd build a stadium in.

Closer to the Hospital, there's King St as others have mentioned, plus I'm sure places would start opening up on Brunswick St west of St Pauls Terrace to cater to demand.

Closer to Normanby/Kelvin Grove, there's the Normanby Hotel as you said, plus some bars and restaurants around the uni. Again, I'm sure more places would open up near the existing ones.

Thing is, there is very rarely ever going to be a place that is absolutely perfect in every way for a stadium that is available, because practically every bit of land that's close to the CBD, public transport and entertainment options has either already been developed for housing (we have a huge housing shortage across the country after all), or will have an enormous cost to acquire, or gets wrecked in floods. Vic Park is basically the only place left that don't have these issues.

 

[Section 5]

Really depends which part of the park they'd build a stadium in.

Closer to the Hospital, there's King St as others have mentioned, plus I'm sure places would start opening up on Brunswick St west of St Pauls Terrace to cater to demand.

Closer to Normanby/Kelvin Grove, there's the Normanby Hotel as you said, plus some bars and restaurants around the uni. Again, I'm sure more places would open up near the existing ones.

Thing is, there is very rarely ever going to be a place that is absolutely perfect in every way for a stadium that is available, because practically every bit of land that's close to the CBD, public transport and entertainment options has either already been developed for housing (we have a huge housing shortage across the country after all), or will have an enormous cost to acquire, or gets wrecked in floods. Vic Park is basically the only place left that don't have these issues.

I am not one that goes to cafes and restaurants pregame or after the game.
The stadium is more likely positioned at the dead-end part of Gilcrest Avenue. But could be anywhere i suppose.
In my opinion it would have to be close to the rail line and connect to Gregory Terrace so that excludes the majority of the park.
King Street is a long walk to that location.
I previously suggested a new Rail Station near and connected to the proposed green space pedestrian/cycle overpass.
Cost of a new rail station (new Hamilton plan mentioned $200 million) but Hamilton did not have an existing rail line so maybe cheaper at Victoria Park.
Thats a transport infostructure costs that are not included in Olympic funding agreement.
A new rail Station at Victoria Park is still way cheaper than the rail Hamilton proposal.
If that went ahead King Street is close to the new Exhibition Station being only 1 stop away.
A rail station at Victoria Park pretty much means people can eat just about anywhere pregame.
The closest bus station is at Herston Station which is pretty handy also.

I don't think having a cafe/restaurant precinct within walking distance will determine the success of the stadium.
It will be more about the ease of people getting to and from the stadium being the main success issue in my opinion.
Followed by the success rate of the major tenants' being AFL/Cricket and the quality of the games played.
Same applies to which concert acts the new venue can attract.
Then the comfort and facilities offered inside the venue.
The admission price to attend the venue.

 

[Andyz]

New article in the Courier Mail, Greg Swann is calling for a new central 55,000 seat stadium

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/brisbane-lions-boss-greg-swann-demands-new-55000seat-stadium-in-city/news-story/1f17b97d37ecf16cc572567a7222604f

Brisbane Lions boss Greg Swann demands new 55,000-seat stadium in city​

The chief executive of the Brisbane Lions has thrown his support behind calls for new oval stadium saying it would service the city for “the next four decades and beyond”.

“Saturday’s match (against Essendon) is our eighth sell out for the season, we’ve signed on a record 62,000 members this year and participation at community level is at an all-time high,” Mr Swann said.
“Given the growth outlook for Queensland’s population, our game, and the Gabba approaching end of life, as we have said previously, we believe it is critical that the viability of a new oval stadium is investigated.”

The calls come days after it was announced Queensland will not feature in Cricket Australia’s plans for Test matches after next year’s Ashes due to ongoing uncertainty over the future of the Gabba.
“Any new venue needs to be in a central location, integrated with public transport, have sufficient capacity of around 55,000 to service the growing needs of the city and the state’s events and tourism economy and be close to a precinct that can be activated to support pre- and post-game activities for patrons,” Mr Swann said.
“This facility would service Brisbane for the next four decades and beyond.”

Thank God the Lions are finally sticking up for us supporters! That is music to our ears! We fans should be so so excited with the amazing increase in support & membership but lately we're all viewing it as meaning we'll just get to fewer and fewer games anymore....

I personally don't even think 55k is enough given we should be looking to hold a blockbuster final or so on years we're flying - the Blues final last year would easily have sold out 60k seats and if we have a rematch again it would do so this year too!

But 55k at Vic park can easily be extended.....well assuming they design it right like Adelaide oval etc. Any stadium less than 70k should be built in a way it can easily be added to imo. More and more I'm getting excited again that we may actually get a nice new stadium so we can start attending games more frequently again and stop copping shit of all my Melb mates who:
1. don't even bother trying to get tickets to games up here anymore bc it's always sold out &
2. can't believe Brisbane which is the 3rd biggest city in the country and the fastest growing (and easily the best of course!) is saddled with a 30 year old antiquated stadium that is only ranked 5th or 6th in the country & even the Olympics couldn't get us a decent stadium.