News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Johnny Bananas]

A new rail Station at Victoria Park is still way cheaper than the rail Hamilton proposal.

I agree, it would be cheaper for a station at Victoria Park, because the line doesn't have to be extended to it the way it does at Hamilton. But, railway stations aren't just useful for stadia alone. There are already thousands of people living in Hamilton that can use public transport every day of the year, and the government wants thousands more people to live there in future. So it'll be used. And providing transport infrastructure for residents is politically much more popular to spend money on than stadiums. That has to be considered given who is making the decisions.

 

[notliondown]

One of the benefits of the Gabba for footy fans is the accommodation, cafes and restaurants in or close to the venue.
It will be difficult or unlikely to find space and to get approval to get this in the Victoria Park precinct.
Getting the approval for a stadium at Victoria Park will be hard enough and i doubt they could include a food precinct
The closest food is at 2 hospitals STARS & the RBWH cafes.
A few small cafes in Bowen Bridge Road opposite the RBWH
Houses start and continue from UQ Herston all the way along Herston Road.
Similar across the proposed green walkway leading to Gregory Terrace. Parkland and houses/units
The Normanby Hotel might benefit as a bus station is across the road.

I see people finding a spot that suits them and getting public transport to the venue after.
The new stadium could very well have a variety of food options with similar costs to what's available around the Gabba.
They could cater for sit down diners by having access not only inside the venue but outside too on event days.

Actually it's not. As someone from out of town who travels to "home" games at the Gabba I can tell you it is the least user friendly place to attend anything in Brisbane.

In reality there are few eating venues that are walk up in the area. Sure there are restaurants which we do frequent but family options at reasonable prices are slim. Not everyone wants to spend hundreds eating before they spend hundreds watching footy and even more at the Gabba bars.

Accommodation is not great close by... in fact it's pretty ordinary. Everyone I know who travels usually stay in the city.

Which brings you to transport... getting there is not bad. Leaving?? Well we all know how utterly shit that is. Even to just return to the city.

Apart from the footy and atmosphere, there is nothing about the Gabba that is appealing or easy.

Any new development - and lets assume it's Vic park simply because it is the most likely - will have a precinct attached... it will be moronic and a huge wasted opportunity if not. Not just on game day but because of the area it will service. The ability to walk to and from the city is huge and the obviously the level of accommodation close by is unparalleled.

Done right Vic Park will be such a huge benefit to the city and add another string to it's modernisation.

 

[Section 5]

Actually it's not. As someone from out of town who travels to "home" games at the Gabba I can tell you it is the least user friendly place to attend anything in Brisbane.

In reality there are few eating venues that are walk up in the area. Sure there are restaurants which we do frequent but family options at reasonable prices are slim. Not everyone wants to spend hundreds eating before they spend hundreds watching footy and even more at the Gabba bars.

Accommodation is not great close by... in fact it's pretty ordinary. Everyone I know who travels usually stay in the city.

Which brings you to transport... getting there is not bad. Leaving?? Well we all know how utterly shit that is. Even to just return to the city.

Apart from the footy and atmosphere, there is nothing about the Gabba that is appealing or easy.

Any new development - and lets assume it's Vic park simply because it is the most likely - will have a precinct attached... it will be moronic and a huge wasted opportunity if not. Not just on game day but because of the area it will service. The ability to walk to and from the city is huge and the obviously the level of accommodation close by is unparalleled.

Done right Vic Park will be such a huge benefit to the city and add another string to it's modernisation.

Firstly, i did not say The Gabba is a user-friendly place and agree it is not. Especially if you are handicapped in any way.

Initially i was agreeing with M Malace post on "flow on benefits".
If you like to eat at a handy place before the game, then that is a benefit to the AFL/cricket/concert fans along with the venue owners.
Then i mentioned i doubt you will get this at Victoria park but that's just my opinion.

M Malace post 5116
"Plus the flow on benefits re accommodation and dining around the precinct. You only have to walk past the cafes and restaurants pre game around the Gabba to see how many people are frequenting dining/drinking options."
.....................................................................................

I mentioned in another post i don't frequent the cafes and restaurants. Not my cup of tea so to speak.
I am quite happy to eat something at the venue. Even a humble pie is good enough for me.
But as i walk through the Wooloongabba area these places are quite busy and i think a lot of their business is from stadium patrons.
So quite a lot of people are willing to pay whatever prices are on the menu.

I assume there are not many sit-down places that are family friendly these days anyhow.
Take away food is dear enough when you are paying for all the family. Prices inside the venue are not cheap either.

Accommodation in the Wooloongabba area you could be correct.
It is usually a matter of price and cleanliness for most people, then closeness to where they want to visit.

We all know transport to the Gabba is an issue but surely with cross river rail opening soon that will help a lot.
Buses leaving the stadium after the game will still be an issue though.
At present i walk to Mater bus station after the game to get a bus home as i find this the easiest for me.
I could line up and get a city bus and get off somewhere to connect with my usual bus or wait 1-hour before usual services resume.
Anyone arriving by bus to Wooloongabba bus station has the same problem after the game except for 2 routes.
Once cross river rail opens i may change the way i get to and from The Gabba.

I don't share your view about Victoria Park will have a "precinct attached". The Hamilton proposal yes.
Maybe something attached to the Stadium on the outside will get approval in the Stadium design.
It will be hard enough to get a stadium built on the parkland even if the government of the day gives it approval for a validation report and business case to commence urgently.

No way would i and most people be walking from the city CBD area to Victoria Park.

Bolded: Agree if they can incorporate a stadium design that flows into the overall masterplan for Victoria Park.
Then Brisbane will have gained a great place for locals and tourists to gather and enjoy the facilities

 

[Andyz]

Firstly, i did not say The Gabba is a user-friendly place and agree it is not. Especially if you are handicapped in any way.

Initially i was agreeing with M Malace post on "flow on benefits".
If you like to eat at a handy place before the game, then that is a benefit to the AFL/cricket/concert fans along with the venue owners.
Then i mentioned i doubt you will get this at Victoria park but that's just my opinion.

M Malace post 5116
"Plus the flow on benefits re accommodation and dining around the precinct. You only have to walk past the cafes and restaurants pre game around the Gabba to see how many people are frequenting dining/drinking options."
.....................................................................................

I mentioned in another post i don't frequent the cafes and restaurants. Not my cup of tea so to speak.
I am quite happy to eat something at the venue. Even a humble pie is good enough for me.
But as i walk through the Wooloongabba area these places are quite busy and i think a lot of their business is from stadium patrons.
So quite a lot of people are willing to pay whatever prices are on the menu.

I assume there are not many sit-down places that are family friendly these days anyhow.
Take away food is dear enough when you are paying for all the family. Prices inside the venue are not cheap either.

Accommodation in the Wooloongabba area you could be correct.
It is usually a matter of price and cleanliness for most people, then closeness to where they want to visit.

We all know transport to the Gabba is an issue but surely with cross river rail opening soon that will help a lot.
Buses leaving the stadium after the game will still be an issue though.
At present i walk to Mater bus station after the game to get a bus home as i find this the easiest for me.
I could line up and get a city bus and get off somewhere to connect with my usual bus or wait 1-hour before usual services resume.
Anyone arriving by bus to Wooloongabba bus station has the same problem after the game except for 2 routes.
Once cross river rail opens i may change the way i get to and from The Gabba.

I don't share your view about Victoria Park will have a "precinct attached". The Hamilton proposal yes.
Maybe something attached to the Stadium on the outside will get approval in the Stadium design.
It will be hard enough to get a stadium built on the parkland even if the government of the day gives it approval for a validation report and business case to commence urgently.

No way would i and most people be walking from the city CBD area to Victoria Park.

Bolded: Agree if they can incorporate a stadium design that flows into the overall masterplan for Victoria Park.
Then Brisbane will have gained a great place for locals and tourists to gather and enjoy the facilities

I think both of these posts are right in their own ways - Gabba is not very user friendly at all least of all because it is sandwiched inbetween 4 terribly busy roads and everyone must enter & exit the ground wedged onto little footpaths.
Add to that the lack of disability access and it really is well past it.

In terms of accomodation I lived in Kangaroo Point which is about 1.5k up the road towards the Story bridge so I know the area.....and I would NEVER consider staying anywhere near the Gabba! There are some small accomodation providers around Kangaroo Point that are lovely but they are way to small to accomodate many. Therefore the cbd really is the only decent accomodation option imo.

As far as dining / pubs go there are some nice places around the Gabba...the Piney, the microbrew accross the road etc all of which do benefit from game days and their long term viability may be in question without a stadium at the location. But compared to the city (other than the Story bridge hotel which is great but 1.5k walk from the Gabba in Kangaroo Point) I'd go to the city every day of the week for pubs or meals.

So I'd say for most whether the stadium is at the Gabba or Vic Park, people will be commuting to the city after games anyway and both are very handily located near the city. I am Southside and the Gabba is just so handy to grab the train to....and Vic park will take an extra 15 minutes to train to for me....but I'd still be for Vic Point over the Gabba due to all of the Gabba site's limitations.

The Hamilton option looks magnificent - and would put Brisbane on the map! But it is not as well situated to the city and privately funded worries me bc I would assume that means increased ticket prices!! If the state Govt wants to own and run petrol stations you'd think they'd like to run & own a stadium that will generate massive amounts of money via events, tiket sales and naming rights etc etc.....

 

[M Malice]

Plenty of great dining options around the Gabba. If you are into Pub meals, The Morrison, The Norman and The Brewhouse all good quality meals.

As a Carnivore I am easily pleased though, as long as it is cooked as ordered(medium rare) I'm a happy little vegemite. Couple of weeks ago at The Norman I had a 400gm rib on the bone with a sausage and 2 fried eggs topper.

 

[Section 5]

Plenty of great dining options around the Gabba. If you are into Pub meals, The Morrison, The Norman and The Brewhouse all good quality meals.

As a Carnivore I am easily pleased though, as long as it is cooked as ordered(medium rare) I'm a happy little vegemite. Couple of weeks ago at The Norman I had a 400gm rib on the bone with a sausage and 2 fried eggs topper.

How is the cholesterol level going

 

[M Malice]

How is the cholesterol level going

Perfect, I have told this before, not sure if on this board though.

I was on cholesterol medication for years and after doing some research of my own decided to go off them, didn't tell my GP until a few blood tests later over a 12+ month period, he was astounded when I told him I went off the medication a year ago. Now around 5 years post going off them and all is still good. Cholesterol is vital for brain function.

There is also emerging evidence that meat which is the most nutrient dense food you can get is very good for you, a lot of nutrition science is severely compromised and a generalisation at best.. you can not lock humans in cages and feed them what you want like rats.


I did the same with blood pressure medication years ago, just went off them and BP has been fine ever since.

Exercise and a good diet will cure most modern ailments IMO, type 2 diabetes the most obvious one.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Perfect, I have told this before, not sure if on this board though.

I was on cholesterol medication for years and after doing some research of my own decided to go off them, didn't tell my GP until a few blood tests later over a 12+ month period, he was astounded when I told him I went off the medication a year ago. Now around 5 years post going off them and all is still good. Cholesterol is vital for brain function.

There is also emerging evidence that meat which is the most nutrient dense food you can get is very good for you, a lot of nutrition science is severely compromised and a generalisation at best.. you can not lock humans in cages and feed them what you want like rats.


I did the same with blood pressure medication years ago, just went off them and BP has been fine ever since.

Exercise and a good diet will cure most modern ailments IMO, type 2 diabetes the most obvious one.

Agree about the exercise and diet. Don't want to take this off track but good aged care homes tray and work out what medicines really need to be taken. There is a lot of overprescribing unfortunately.

 

[Section 5]

Agree about the exercise and diet. Don't want to take this off track but good aged care homes tray and work out what medicines really need to be taken. There is a lot of overprescribing unfortunately.

Would not worry about a slight detour.
We are on page 206 and only have 8 years to go.

 

[McIvor]

Would not worry about a slight detour.
We are on page 206 and only have 8 years to go.

Still wont top the amount of posts in the Sack Kenny threads on the Port board lol

 

[Section 5]

Still wont top the amount of posts in the Sack Kenny threads on the Port board lol

I see it's up to page 341.
Not sure Keny has 8 years to go at Port though

 

[Happy_Neale]

Perfect, I have told this before, not sure if on this board though.

I was on cholesterol medication for years and after doing some research of my own decided to go off them, didn't tell my GP until a few blood tests later over a 12+ month period, he was astounded when I told him I went off the medication a year ago. Now around 5 years post going off them and all is still good. Cholesterol is vital for brain function.

There is also emerging evidence that meat which is the most nutrient dense food you can get is very good for you, a lot of nutrition science is severely compromised and a generalisation at best.. you can not lock humans in cages and feed them what you want like rats.


I did the same with blood pressure medication years ago, just went off them and BP has been fine ever since.

Exercise and a good diet will cure most modern ailments IMO, type 2 diabetes the most obvious one.

Agree, after the game changers documentary a few years ago about vegan athletes I had a deep dive into the research to see what changes I could make, wasn’t sure at the time if I was crazy but I kept coming to the same conclusion that cutting meat isn’t the reason for good health but more the fact they were eating far more vegetables.

Obviously vegetarian/vegan have their own benefits but good luck getting enough protein with peanut butter, tofu and greens

 

[Section 5]

I can't get through the Courier Mail paywall, but Grace Grace mentioned this last night on the news.
It is just another excuse but on this point she is correct.
If she is quoted correctly using the words "seriously considering". That's a change of language so maybe a slight hope.

I mentioned recently that both the Hamilton and Victoria Park proposals did not have a warmup track in the plans.
That's a big oversite for professional people putting something out there.

On the other hand, those last proposals can look again at their plans that include a warmup track.
It will make the Hamilton proposal less realistic as it will take up too much land initially anyhow.
The Victoria Park plan should be better able to accommodate a warmup track.
A warmup track can be temporary and revert back to whatever you want after the games.
The Rugby fields could be used in Gilchrist Avenue or across the pedestrian overpass in the parkland somewhere in Gregory terrace.
..................................
The lack of a warm-up athletics track for the 2032 Olympic Games is preventing the government from seriously considering industry plans for a major new stadium, State Development Minister Grace Grace has revealed.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=CMWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.couriermail.com.au%2Fnews%2Fopinion%2Feditorial-pollies-take-us-for-mugs-in-stadium-farce%2Fnews-story%2F54862cb36ed710b849a8b6c5c92cc80b&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=GROUPA-Segment-2-NOSCORE

 

[Perrip]

I can't get through the Courier Mail paywall, but Grace Grace mentioned this last night on the news.
It is just another excuse but on this point she is correct.

This is the section of the article about the stadium:

This risk-averse state government is taking Queenslanders for mugs with its new excuses about why Brisbane can’t have a world-class round stadium.
The disingenuousness is actually breathtaking. Having shot down every proposal from industry leaders calling for a new stadium – and instead endorsing the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre idea that has little support – the government is now relying on dubious technicalities to stifle growing calls for a sporting legacy from 2032.
Minister Grace Grace, who is responsible for the Olympic and Paralympic Games, said yesterday the lack of an athletic warm-up track in artists’ impressions of the Northshore and Victoria Park stadium proposals means they can’t work.
“A lot of these venues do not solve one key problem when it comes to athletics, and that’s the warm-up track,” she said.
“It is absolutely essential that whatever we do for athletics they must have, under the rules, a warm-up track within a very short distance of where they are to compete.”
That much is true. What is also true is that artists’ impressions of the Victoria Park Olympic precinct include a training track quite prominently on the massive greenfield site.
Perhaps the Hamilton proposal could also include a training facility in the immediate area. It would be a question one would think that the relevant minister might ask.
But instead of constructively considering the long-term benefits these projects could provide, Ms Grace is poo-pooing the chorus of voices from athletes and ordinary Queenslanders alike loudly calling for Brisbane to live up to the standards we all saw in Paris.

It should also be noted that Ms Grace sat at the cabinet table during Gabba planning that earmarked Raymond Park at Kangaroo Point as the training facility for the athletic stadium, with the 500m distance between the two facilities actually less than at the London Games in 2012.
This government has not genuinely considered Victoria Park as an alternative option to QSAC – which was only put on the agenda when International Olympic Committee powerbroker John Coates declared the Gabba had put the Games “on the nose in Brisbane”.
Ms Grace spoke at length on Sunday about the needs of the IOC, but was largely silent on the needs of a growing Brisbane.
Ministers often invoke the IOC’s “new norms” plan – where a host city doesn’t spend billions of dollars on new infrastructure – as a reason not to build a new stadium.
They know, however, this is not a blanket ban on new stadiums – especially if the host city is indeed crying out for a new oval venue.
As we have said many times in this column since the council of mayors proposed a bid for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, this is not just about a month of elite sport in the future.
It is about ensuring a legacy for Brisbane and South East Queensland, culturally and in terms of transport and sporting infrastructure.
Somehow that has now been forgotten.
Under current plans, come 2033 Brisbane’s best oval stadium will be a repainted Gabba with just 38,000 seats, after QSAC removes its temporary Olympic stands.
Future generations would then be entirely justified to ask; however did we get it so wrong.

 

[M Malice]

I can't get through the Courier Mail paywall, but Grace Grace mentioned this last night on the news.
It is just another excuse but on this point she is correct.
If she is quoted correctly using the words "seriously considering". That's a change of language so maybe a slight hope.

I mentioned recently that both the Hamilton and Victoria Park proposals did not have a warmup track in the plans.
That's a big oversite for professional people putting something out there.

On the other hand, those last proposals can look again at their plans that include a warmup track.
It will make the Hamilton proposal less realistic as it will take up too much land initially anyhow.
The Victoria Park plan should be better able to accommodate a warmup track.
A warmup track can be temporary and revert back to whatever you want after the games.
The Rugby fields could be used in Gilchrist Avenue or across the pedestrian overpass in the parkland somewhere in Gregory terrace.
..................................
The lack of a warm-up athletics track for the 2032 Olympic Games is preventing the government from seriously considering industry plans for a major new stadium, State Development Minister Grace Grace has revealed.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=CMWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.couriermail.com.au%2Fnews%2Fopinion%2Feditorial-pollies-take-us-for-mugs-in-stadium-farce%2Fnews-story%2F54862cb36ed710b849a8b6c5c92cc80b&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=GROUPA-Segment-2-NOSCORE

Grace Grace is the one who said when questioned about Brisbane's long term plans re the Gabba nearing the end of its life said ... oh that will be another governments problem down the road.

She is an absolute visionless numbskull.

 

[Perrip]

Bill McDonald has revealed on 4BC Mornings that Labor heavyweights [had] planned to cancel the Olympics, forcing the AOC to put QSAC on the table to prevent the Miles government from walking away.

Some juicy content here on 4BC this morning

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It will make the Hamilton proposal less realistic as it will take up too much land initially anyhow.

The amount of land at Hamilton is easily big enough to accommodate a warm up track. The images shown in the proposal are supposed to be long after the games when the area around it has been developed for housing, presumably including land occupied by a warm up track.

 

[Black Panther]

did not have a warmup track in the plans

Maybe Grace Grace Grace Grace could look at what LA 2028 is doing



Do you see any warm up track there (or any space for one)? Nup....

That's because LA is going to actually build a temporary athletics track above ground on a deck while directly underneath will be the warmup track!

Smart eh?

 

[Section 5]

Bill McDonald mentioned the Victoria Park proposal did have a warmup track in the drawings.
I could not remember that being mentioned or seen in images.
I just went to Archipelago web site to see what i could find.
Sure enough i found an image showing the warmup track.

 

[Section 5]

Maybe Grace Grace Grace Grace could look at what LA 2028 is doing

View attachment 2092152

Do you see any warm up track there (or any space for one)? Nup....

That's because LA is going to actually build a temporary athletics track above ground on a deck while directly underneath will be the warmup track!

Smart eh?

LA can spend that sort of money, but Brisbane can't.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Paris didn't have a full warmup track, just a kind of field from what I saw.

 

[Black Panther]

The cost to rip up Raymond Park and put a warmup track and then rip it up again meant value for money?

LA option expected to cost $100 million

 

[Section 5]

The amount of land at Hamilton is easily big enough to accommodate a warm up track. The images shown in the proposal are supposed to be long after the games when the area around it has been developed for housing, presumably including land occupied by a warm up track.

As you explained the images could be after the Olympics.
However, if the proposal included a warmup track it would have helped their cause.
That's what they are aiming for in the first place to get the approval.
A little hard to see where it would be in the latest private proposal. Maybe they dig the canals later.
Going to all that trouble and expense you would have thought they could have put up the actual plan first.
Easy enough to show the "after" the games look in a separate proposal image.

There are two proposals for Hamilton

$6 Billion Northshore Plan to Address Brisbane 2032 Olympic Infrastructure - Ministry of Sport

Northshore Vision 2050 proposed plan addressing Brisbane's 2032 Olympic infrastructure needs with a new stadium and Athletes' Village.

ministryofsport.com

We Can Do Better: Rating Proposed Olympic Sites & Why Northshore is the Winner

For the same price of $3.1 billion, we can do much much better. Northshore would kill two birds with one stone by providing rail to an area that desperately needs it.

brisbanedevelopment.com

 

[Section 5]

It would be good if someone could propose just a new stadium with a warmup track at Victoria Park.
Including a feasible cost estimate as a starting point.
That's a big enough plan and way easier to sell than putting up huge $3,000,000,000 plus proposals.
In the end it would still require a validation report and business case.
If that comes in at around $2,000,000,000 that should get preference over a $1,600,000,000 QSAC mess.

However, Victoria Park coming in at $1,900,000,000 would look way more attractive than being $100,000,000 dearer

With that information and changing the State/Commonwealth agreement to 50/50 split.
Adding that the Commonwealth total spending is $2.5 billion plus the agreed 50/50 split on minor venues.

You are more likely to get a favorable outcome this way.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It would be good if someone could propose just a new stadium with a warmup track at Victoria Park.
Including a feasible cost estimate as a starting point.
That's a big enough plan and way easier to sell than putting up huge $3,000,000,000 plus proposals.
In the end it would still require a validation report and business case.
If that comes in at around $2,000,000,000 that should get preference over a $1,600,000,000 QSAC mess.

However, Victoria Park coming in at $1,900,000,000 would look way more attractive than being $100,000,000 dearer

With that information and changing the State/Commonwealth agreement to 50/50 split.
Adding that the Commonwealth total spending is $2.5 billion plus the agreed 50/50 split on minor venues.

You are more likely to get a favorable outcome this way.

I think any proposal for Victoria Park would cost over $3m. As far as I understand the Quirk report's assessment of VP at a cost of $3.4 billion was for just a new stadium, not the Populous proposal. The cost of labour is so high now that I doubt there would be a serious cost saving anywhere else, (including at QSAC, which I suspect has been underquoted for political purposes).